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Rangers should 150% target Marian Hossa in 08

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08-08-2007, 07:03 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
My point is guys aren't projected to be superstars. They become superstars. They guys you mention as projecting to be second liners or low-level first liners could very well become superstars.
Or they could become minor leaguers or role players. Guess which is more likely...

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08-08-2007, 07:06 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Or they could become minor leaguers or role players. Guess which is more likely...
Or they can become very good, more than servicable, quality NHLers. That's my pick

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08-08-2007, 07:10 PM
  #128
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1. you aren't taking into account things important things like the salary cap... How do you know Cherry will get along with Bourrett? Or AA with Dubi? Or Drury with Gomez? You never know about chemistry. This is a ridiculous point to make. It's something you say when you have nothing else to say because it sounds like a legitimate point, but you aren't showing how Hossa would be bad for chemistry. This is not like getting Michael Vick where you think he'll be bad in the locker room. Hossa is a great player who's NOT known to be a pain in the ass.

2. you aren't taking into account that just because you say a guy is getting a 2.5 million dollar raise means it's a 2.5 million dollar raise... Yes, I said that Rosie will get $5M. I doubt he'll get more. If he demands more than $5M, then NYR can let him go and sign someone else for $5.

3. you aren't taking into account that you can't have to many chiefs and not enough indians... It's actually the opposite. YOU are the one who only wants Indians and no chiefs. Drury, Gomez and likely all the prospects look more like Indians, not Chiefs. Some of them are ok Indians and some may become great Indians. But none of them are superstars.

4. you aren't taking into account that the federal reserve has nothing to do with the NHL... you totally missed the point. What I said is that there's always inflation. And inflation in sports is always greater than in general (except lockouts, which won't happen since we just had one and the NHL-NHLPA has an agreement for more than the next 5/7 years that Drury/Gomez will be here)

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08-08-2007, 07:11 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Or they can become very good, more than servicable, quality NHLers. That's my pick
And these "servicable" NHLers can't play on the same team as Hossa because...?

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08-08-2007, 07:13 PM
  #130
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"you aren't taking into account that THIS IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN..."

That's a different story. I do think that it would be possible if Hossa does become a UFA. The cap numbers would certainly work presuming Shanny, Straka, Malik and Mara leave.

But people have been arguing that even if he fits under the cap, we shouldn't get a superstar. The idea that if you can get a superstar for NOTHING, you say no, that's ridiculous. I can see if Hossa says, "I want $10M". Then we can say that it's too much.

But the whole point of the anti-Hossa posts - go back and read them, you'll see that that's the only thing said so far - is that it's bad to get a superstar because superstars cost money.

To outright say, "We don't want superstars for nothing" is beyond moronic. I'm sorry, but there's no other way to describe it. Yes, if Hossa is overpaid, we don't want him.

But what you've argued is: "Even if Hossa wants a reasonable salary, we still don't want him because we need Indians and not Chiefs, and we don't want Hossa to take the spot of Callahan who will be serviceable on the second line."

That's just dumb.


Last edited by Beacon: 08-08-2007 at 07:29 PM.
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08-08-2007, 07:14 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Zajac View Post
I'd pass if I was the Rangers.

Not only he'll command 6-8millions (Or he'll receive that.)And , he has shown in the past that he doesn't show when it comes Playoff time.

And..I'm not so sure if the Rangers will have the Cap space after locking up Henrik long term..
and then he will pull a pavel datsyuk against the rangers and you will think twice about that again

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08-08-2007, 07:36 PM
  #132
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"Not only he'll command 6-8millions (Or he'll receive that.)And , he has shown in the past that he doesn't show when it comes Playoff time."

Let me ask you this - If Cherry or Bourrett become what Hossa is today, would you be happy? Or do you expect them to be better?

if so, he'll eventually ask for $8M too. Would you let him go at that point?

That's exactly my point. If you can get a superstar still in his prime, you get him for the same reason you'd want to keep him if he was already on the roster. The only difference is chemistry, but Hossa shouldn't be a problem in the locker room.

P.S. It's not a matter of do we keep Cherry or do we get Hossa. One has nothing to do with the other. Cherry may become "serviceable", that's great. But his "serviceability" still allows the Rangers to sign a player like Hossa.

I already did the math for the Cup. One has NOTHING to do with the other. NOTHING.

And even if I did have a choice between Cherry and Hossa (which is NOT the case, just for the sake of the argument), I would choose Hossa. That's not even a close call.

If Cherry is signed by Kevin Lowe and we get a few high picks for him, while getting Hossa for nothing, that's a no-brainer. But as I've said, Hossa has nothing to do with Cherry. If Cherry is an equivalent of, say, Straka (quality, not style), NYR can afford both - easily.

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08-08-2007, 07:51 PM
  #133
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i think this off season is dragging by and people are starting to invent things to talk about.
i mean can we play this season and worry about the hear and the now first before we start talking next years free agency.

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08-08-2007, 08:04 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by towely View Post
i think this off season is dragging by and people are starting to invent things to talk about.
i mean can we play this season and worry about the hear and the now first before we start talking next years free agency.
amen.

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08-08-2007, 08:39 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by towely View Post
i think this off season is dragging by and people are starting to invent things to talk about.
i mean can we play this season and worry about the hear and the now first before we start talking next years free agency.
you sir, are a wise man!

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08-08-2007, 08:44 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
"you aren't taking into account that THIS IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN..."

That's a different story. I do think that it would be possible if Hossa does become a UFA. The cap numbers would certainly work presuming Shanny, Straka, Malik and Mara leave.

But people have been arguing that even if he fits under the cap, we shouldn't get a superstar. The idea that if you can get a superstar for NOTHING, you say no, that's ridiculous. I can see if Hossa says, "I want $10M". Then we can say that it's too much.

But the whole point of the anti-Hossa posts - go back and read them, you'll see that that's the only thing said so far - is that it's bad to get a superstar because superstars cost money.

To outright say, "We don't want superstars for nothing" is beyond moronic. I'm sorry, but there's no other way to describe it. Yes, if Hossa is overpaid, we don't want him.

But what you've argued is: "Even if Hossa wants a reasonable salary, we still don't want him because we need Indians and not Chiefs, and we don't want Hossa to take the spot of Callahan who will be serviceable on the second line."

That's just dumb.

He doesn't fit the North South Philosphy that the team has made an EFFORT to mold the team after...

he isn't THAT MUCH of a superstar that you go into cap hell for 4 or 5 years over...If this was a Gomez or Hossa or Gomez or Drury debate then it would be interesting and I'm not sure which way I'd even go but lets be SERIOUS and live in REALITY the Rangers have made there bed with the guys they are going to go for the Cup...for the next 2 to 5 years...The Rangers are one of the few teams that can EASILY be a target to have an RFA signed...Losing Tyutin next season so the Ragners can bring in a guy THEY DON'T NEED makes no sense..

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08-08-2007, 09:34 PM
  #137
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let me get that straight- you said if it was 2/3 you could pick gomez, drury or hossa? is that somehtign you really had to think about? I would take Hossa over either in a heartbeat, knee jerk reaction. this is the type of player, that if you could fit him under your cap...you take him...it's not a question. i don't understand what's wrong with you people...its marian freakin hossa......
you're not gonna get a guy like that anywhere else in the near future and you sure aren't developing one.

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08-09-2007, 02:42 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Simple I don't like the guy. He didn't show up in the playoffs. And the only reason we are discussing him is his brother is here (and by no means a lock to be back next season).

I'd rather replace Jagr by having better team depth and more offensive players. Not try to slide another player into that spot.

Hmm... I thought Hossa played LW, not RW but I guess I am wrong. With Jagr, Cherapanov, Callahan, and potentially Bourret, I don't think he'd be a good fit. If he's signed as a LW, then he is high class talent which will most likely come at a high class contract. If there is a budget to fit him in, that could be nice. His playoff performance last season did not bother me as he has had decent playoffs before so it's not like a chronic monkey on his back. I don't think anyone on atlanta did well in the sweep so it's more a team problem than an individual issue. Anyways, I think I'd rather see that sort of money go to sign Wade Redden.

2008 season D!
Redden-Staal
Tyutin-Girardi
Sauer-Sanguinetti

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Old
08-09-2007, 05:13 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
Heatley isn't leaving ottawa and I'd rather have Marian than Ilya.

Think about it, you got the brother thing going on, plus you're gonna need to replace Jags with a real top 10 talent in this league, plus that one(maybe 2) year(s) of them playing together would be absolutely insane. Cap shouldn't be an issue with all of that money coming off the books next year....plus, the cap is sure to go up at least 3 mil.
Alright, I can't think about this anymore, I might cream myself.
Yeah let's sign a player who disappears come playoff time! Pass!

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08-09-2007, 05:18 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER View Post
Yeah let's sign a player who disappears come playoff time! Pass!
to be fair, this past playoff season he played for a bad and inexperienced team (as you should know?!?!) it wasnt only him that went missing. Hossa is a great player and would be a welcome addition though an unecessary one. We need to bring the good talent through that we have in Hartford they are cheaper (by a mile)and deserving of a chance. Give Dawes or Bourret a chance.

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08-09-2007, 07:21 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
to be fair, this past playoff season he played for a bad and inexperienced team (as you should know?!?!) it wasnt only him that went missing. Hossa is a great player and would be a welcome addition though an unecessary one. We need to bring the good talent through that we have in Hartford they are cheaper (by a mile)and deserving of a chance. Give Dawes or Bourret a chance.
I think that tag was given to him well before he played a playoff game in Atlanta.

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08-09-2007, 07:25 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by zestystrat View Post
I think that tag was given to him well before he played a playoff game in Atlanta.
If you are referring to his time in Ottawa, again, didnt the whole team underachieve for 5 years? it surely cant all be Hossa fault? alot of the blame was put to their goalies and in particular Alfredsson and Redden. Yes, Hossa as a key forward underachieved but he isnt alone.

He is a quality player but hasnt been on a playoff ready contender yet that were ready to go deep. Ottawa obviously needed another yr or 2 during his time there and Atlanta were not a deep side with inexperienced goal tending.

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08-09-2007, 08:41 AM
  #143
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People are actually saying that he wouldn't fit on the team??? He is a superstar, how can that not fit on your team? He can not fit under the cap withough losing all other talent, that is a fact. But to say you don't want him talent wise is insane. He is a better player than Drury and Gomez and that isn't even debatable. And he hasn't been THAT bad in the playoffs. He hasn't torn anything up, but he has been ok on underachieving teams for the most part.

01-02: 10pts in 12 games
02-03: 16pts in 18 games
03-04: 4pts in 7 games
Last year 1pt in 4 games.

Either way as I said before. Sign Hossa now and lose all of your young talent in the future. You would have Gomez, Drury, Hossa and Lundqvist making huge money adn then couldn't afford to have any other players who make over 2 mill a year. insane.

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08-09-2007, 08:44 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by OpieAnthony View Post
People are actually saying that he wouldn't fit on the team??? He is a superstar, how can that not fit on your team? He can not fit under the cap withough losing all other talent, that is a fact. But to say you don't want him talent wise is insane. He is a better player than Drury and Gomez and that isn't even debatable. And he hasn't been THAT bad in the playoffs. He hasn't torn anything up, but he has been ok on underachieving teams for the most part.

01-02: 10pts in 12 games
02-03: 16pts in 18 games
03-04: 4pts in 7 games
Last year 1pt in 4 games.

Either way as I said before. Sign Hossa now and lose all of your young talent in the future. You would have Gomez, Drury, Hossa and Lundqvist making huge money adn then couldn't afford to have any other players who make over 2 mill a year. insane.
Yes he's a superstar and definitely a great player - i defended him - but he isnt an organisational need. Give the talented kids a chance and if you invest the UFA route next year lets spend some money on the D.

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08-09-2007, 08:46 AM
  #145
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i can't believe how many nigel dawes fluffers we have on this board. give me a break, guys. he's nothing special, nor will he ever be. lucky if he ever becomes a fourth liner in the NHL.

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08-09-2007, 08:52 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
i can't believe how many nigel dawes fluffers we have on this board. give me a break, guys. he's nothing special, nor will he ever be. lucky if he ever becomes a fourth liner in the NHL.
what makes you say that? he has had success at very level he has played. back to back 50 goal years in a defensive league (WHL) top goal scorer in the WJC and a WJC gold and silver medalist, and two very good first pro campaigns in the AHL on a young side.

Where in there does he indicate he's bound for failure or not special?!?! when he played for the Rangers he had about 6 minutes per game. the one game he got decent minutes (toronto) he scored a goal and looked very useful.

Dont judge him before he gets a proper chance.

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08-09-2007, 08:55 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
i can't believe how many nigel dawes fluffers we have on this board. give me a break, guys. he's nothing special, nor will he ever be. lucky if he ever becomes a fourth liner in the NHL.
Who's fluffing Nigel Dawes?

And anyway, I think you need to give it a break with Hossa. There is no way we could give him the expensive, long-term contract he wants and still have enough cap room down the road to have good depth and keep our own homegrown quality players

Yeah, I know he is a great player and I would love to have him, but thats the reality of the salary cap.

What we should be doing is augmenting our prospects into the team and build a deep offensive foward set. We have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league, lets use it to our advantage.

Remember when we would always buy players that didnt fill a pressing need and only got them because they were the best free agent out there? Didnt work out too well now did it

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08-09-2007, 08:55 AM
  #148
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the consensus on this board is osmething like - we don't need hossa since we have nigel dawes. gimme a freakin break.

does the name corey locke mean anything to you?

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08-09-2007, 08:57 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
the consensus on this board is osmething like - we don't need hossa since we have nigel dawes. gimme a freakin break.

does the name corey locke mean anything to you?
Ok now you're just grasping for straws

Who said that?

Look at what I've been saying, Hossa just isnt realistic with salary cap

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08-09-2007, 08:58 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
the consensus on this board is osmething like - we don't need hossa since we have nigel dawes. gimme a freakin break.

does the name corey locke mean anything to you?
im not saying we dont need Hossa. Every team needs a Marian Hossa, but think of everything: the cap issues, the priority where the cap gets spent, prospectdevelopment and current line up....

Hossa wouldnt come under 6m, i'd rather spend 6m on an elite D man to bring the youngsters up on D and eat monster minutes, then i'd rather playa Dawes, Bourret or even Korpikoski or even a Dupont on the wing with the Jagr's, Drury's, Gomez's. With such good line mates they be more than adequate and have a good chance to succeed. Our top wing talents are hardly inadequate goons...

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