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Eric Brewer being shopped....

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Old
01-04-2004, 04:56 PM
  #51
wasting time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Also there is mention in the Floida Papers re Brewer and Laroque

Funny it is barried in a Leaf Report..

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/h...ports-panthers

"The Oilers have won three of their past 18, scoring 36 goals in that span. General Manager Kevin Lowe appears close to pulling a significant deal, maybe involving Georges Laraque or Eric Brewer."

My personal opinion is that Calgary trade Derrick Morris for Drury a couple of years ago and I think Edmonton is looking for a simlilar deal here for Brewer....
Probably. I doubt very much whether Toronto will be in the running for this deal.

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01-04-2004, 05:24 PM
  #52
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I don't want an argument based on plus minus, but since you brought up it being a team stat, implying there is a substantial difference between Toronto and edmonton in this regard.

Last year

Toronto 236GF 2.88GF/Game 208GA 2.54GA/Game
Difference of + 0.34
- Kaberle 24:50 Time on Ice Per Game
4:14 SH TOI/G 4:29 PP TOI/G
+ 20 1st on leafs, next highest Svehla with +13
Edmonton 231GF 2.82GF/Game 230GA 2.80GA/Game
Difference of + 0.02
- Brewer 24:55 Time on Ice Per Game
3:31 SH TOI/G 4:09 PP TOI/G
-11 26th on Oilers, only one worse was Comrie with -18.

2001-2002

Toronto 249GF 3.04GF/Game 207GA 2.52GA/Game
Difference of +0.52
- Kaberle 25:00 Time on Ice Per Game
3:16 SH TOI/G 4:28 PP TOI/G
+5 15th on team, between Sundin +6, and Domi +3
Edmonton 205GA 2.50GA/Game 182GA 2.22GA/Game
Difference of +0.28
- Brewer 23:55 Time on Ice Per Game
3:23 SH TOI/G 3:25 PP TOI/G
-5, 24th on Oilers. Worst on the team. Closest is Chimera with -3.

I'm not saying he's horrible defensivly, or that Kaberle is superb, but for a 'defensive specialist' those stats don't impress me.

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Old
01-04-2004, 06:04 PM
  #53
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Yes +/- is a team stat, but a players abilities do have something to do with it. If a D-man is playing infront of a goalie who lets in every other shot, not matter how good that D-man is his +/- will be low , but at the same time if a D-man can produce points that will have a positive affect on his +/- as well (look at Gonchar). You have remember. Kaberle 86 points over the last 2 seasons, ( one of those seasons he only played 69 games, and he was only a +5), Brewer had 53 points those 20 years. There is less offensive production going on while Brewer is on the ice whic affects +/- as much as goals against.

+/- is a weird stat and not that realiable. If someone else screws up it affects a players +/-, if a player doesn't produce much offense his +/- will be affected. Yet if theres a really strong goalie in net it can make a weaker players +/- good. Rob Blake (one of the best D-men in the league) has had 6 - seasons, one of which he was a -28. That doesn't mean hes a bad D-man, he was on a bad team. Ask yourself this - if Brewer was a bad D-man why would he get so much mroe ice time thenguys like Smith or Staios (who both had better +/-'s?). Hell even this year he's still second on the time in ice-time per game. Its just not a good indicator of defensive ability because to many outside things can affect it - even last year with the Leafs. Svehla was EASY the Leafs best d-man, but Kaberle had a higher +/-.

Or look at Jere Lehtinen (last years Selke winner - I'm 99% sure). He was 3rd in the league with a +39 (Forsberg and Hejduk both had +52's). But one of them didn't win because those hugh +/-'s were because of their defensive play but because of their point production and their goalie (who just didn't let in many goals). And this year Forsberg (who was on track for a 125 pt season), playing infront of a weaker goalie was only a +2 with 28 points.


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Old
01-05-2004, 06:36 AM
  #54
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I wouldn't give up Antropov to get Brewer....

...unless we're also able to swing another deal to get a scoring forward in his 20s...preferably a winger.

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Old
01-05-2004, 04:48 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
I wouldn't give up Antropov to get Brewer....
As an Oiler fan I wouldn't give up Brewer for Antropov. Nik's not very durable as you're well aware of.

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01-05-2004, 05:57 PM
  #56
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Brewer >>> Antropov

Brewer for Tucker = LOL

Brewer is a stud D man. There is a reason he has a gold medal.

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Old
01-05-2004, 07:22 PM
  #57
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As an Oiler fan I wouldn't give up Brewer for Antropov. Nik's not very durable as you're well aware of.
Brewer is not very consistent, as I'm sure YOU'RE well aware of.

Also you can't afford his contract. Why else would there be ANY discussion of dealing the kid????

Quote:
Brewer for Tucker = LOL
You know what's "LOL"?

Tucker has 14 goals, more than ANY Oiler.

Now THAT'S "LOL", LOL.

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Old
01-05-2004, 07:52 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
You know what's "LOL"?

Tucker has 14 goals, more than ANY Oiler.

Now THAT'S "LOL", LOL.
Ronald Petrovicky has 13 goals, more than ANY Oiler. Doesn't mean he'd get Brewer either.

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01-05-2004, 07:58 PM
  #59
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[QUOTE=exiled in Florida]
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
According to rumours ... its Hamrlik on the block and not Aucoin..

Bruce Garrioch reports the following:

- After losing Alexei Yashin and Mark Parrish to injuries for lengthy periods, the NY Islanders may finally be forced to trade defenceman Roman Hamrlik to Tampa Bay for offensive help. Garrioch suggests Fredrik Modin as the possible return although acknowledging he "wouldn't be enough" to land Hamrlik.


It would be that moronic GM on the Island who, seeking "offensive help," looks to the totally anemic Lightning. Modin may be offensive but his awful shot creates little offense.

nyi have at least 2x rejected TB's Modin+ spare parts for Hamrlik offer.Modin's 10 goals would rank him 7th or 8th on the nyi in scoring and I don't see him coming to LI or Hamrlik going to TB..

Garroich's just rehashing old news.

btw,there's absolutely nothing in the nyi papers about the nyi wanting to move Aucoin.

and I don't know why anyone would think the nyi would ask less for Aucoin then they would for Hamrlik.With the number of teams who've asked about Hamrlik+Niinimaa this season,it should be pretty clear the nyi aren't dealing any of their top 4 cheaply.

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Old
01-05-2004, 08:02 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Ronald Petrovicky has 13 goals, more than ANY Oiler. Doesn't mean he'd get Brewer either.
I think you're missing the point.

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Old
01-05-2004, 08:15 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
I think you're missing the point.
I get your point, but you undervalue Brewer. Tucker is a very good third liner, that's about it. While Brewer is not a #1 blueliner, he has potential and is already highly regarded. Look at what Derek Morriss recieved in return, and you get an idea of what Kevin Lowe will be looking for.

Also, it's easier to put up points in Tuckers situation than if he were to step in to a top line role in Edmonton, not that he would.

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01-05-2004, 08:50 PM
  #62
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A lot of fans over value the players on their teams, but I am a fan of neither TO or the Oilers. Brewer is worth much more. Good defensemen are harder to find than forwards, especially ones with brittle bones or 3rd liners enjoying some goal scoring success when playing with 2nd or 1st line players.

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Old
01-06-2004, 03:58 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rye&ginger
A lot of fans over value the players on their teams, but I am a fan of neither TO or the Oilers. Brewer is worth much more. Good defensemen are harder to find than forwards, especially ones with brittle bones or 3rd liners enjoying some goal scoring success when playing with 2nd or 1st line players.

I agree, I do not think the leafs have what Lowe is looking for. Antropov would be of interest but Lowe would likely expect a 1st round draft pick too.

I can see Brewer going to another non-playoff team like Florida (a trade involving Huselius or Kozlov + 2nd), Rangers (Lundmark + 1st), or even the Flyers (Williams + 1st). Defensemen always come at a premium

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01-06-2004, 09:53 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Brewer is not very consistent, as I'm sure YOU'RE well aware of.
Both of you guys are in agreement, Bear doesn't want Antropov and Pep does'nt want Brewer. Perfect fit!

If I were JFJ I'd jump all over a Brewer for Antropov offer, in fact I'd drive the Russian out west personally.

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01-06-2004, 07:35 PM
  #65
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My personal opinion - I don't think Lowe would take an Antropov for Brewer swap, even if Antropov were healthy all the time. Brewer is inconsistant yes, and maybe you have a point saying Antropov is better - but Lowe still feels Brewer is going to be a #1 defenseman in this league. Changing his mind will be akin to moving mountains.

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01-06-2004, 08:33 PM
  #66
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They gave way Comrie for picks and a prospect and remember they turned down Lupul, who is in the NHL right now.
You go making comments like these, sluggo, then call other people idiots. Yikes.

First of all, just because Comrie went for picks and a prospect DOES NOT mean Brewer will. Brewer can draw a lot more of a return than that, because you can bet there will be a lot more interest in him than there was in Comrie. Brew is playing great right now, too.

Second, the Oilers DID NOT turn down Lupul. Murray is the one who refused to give up Lupul for Comrie, even straight up. Get your facts straight.

BTW guys, Tucker for a player like Brewer is a JOKE of a proposal. There's more to players than the number of goals they have. Leaf fans overrating Tucker once again = the ultimate LOL.


Last edited by zamboni: 01-06-2004 at 08:40 PM.
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01-06-2004, 08:46 PM
  #67
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No way leafs trade Tucker. He is far to valuable every GM in the league wants him. In the playoffs he is always one of our best players. He has the best intangibles in the league. Jr is not stupid or we hope so. Great trade by Quinn, giving up Mike Johnson and Marek Posmyk for Tuck. Quinn doesn't get enough credit for swindling Rick Dudley.

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01-06-2004, 08:53 PM
  #68
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Some of you guys really need to get your facts straight.

#1. Lowe's hand was forced in a Comrie trade. Comrie didn't want to be an Oiler. Lowe wanted him to be an Oiler. Lowe didn't want to trade Comrie, but he had to. He did not turn down Lupul, and I honestly don't know where you guys got this from. Lowe was asking for NHL players, but when it was clear he wasn't going to get one, he settled for picks and prospects.

#2. The Oilers can afford Brewer. He doesn't make an insane amount of money, and he plays a tonne of minutes which makes his contract a little more palatable. They aren't trying to deal Brewer to save money, they are trying to deal him to fill a need. Lowe also realizes that Brewer is his most valuable and attractive commodity.

#3. Please don't sit there and look at stats and try and figure out what Brewer brings. Yes he has been a career minus, but did you know that his defence partners over the past couple of years have consisted of a rookie (Semenov), and Tom Poti (who isn't exactly a force in his own zone). He has also played on a team that has only scored 13 more goals than it has given up over the past 3 season.

Neither Darcy Tucker nor Antropov comes anywhere close to fitting the bill for what the Oilers need right now.

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01-06-2004, 09:23 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Lowe didn't want to trade Comrie, but he had to. He did not turn down Lupul, and I honestly don't know where you guys got this from.
It was written in the Journal (either Barnes or Matheson) during the whole Comrie situation that the Oilers rejected a Lupul for Comrie deal based on Lupul's contract. True or not, we don't know. But there's as much reason to believe it as not to, and vice versa.

Anyway, about Brewer, maybe it's just me, and maybe I shouldn't be saying this on the Leafs' board, but I personally wouldn't trade him for Antropov and Tucker. Some people have come up with a Brewer-for-Jokinen thing, and even that would be much better for Edmonton. I just don't think a deal works here. I doubt the Leafs would be willing to give up what it would take.

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01-06-2004, 09:39 PM
  #70
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[QUOTE=zamboni]First of all, just because Comrie went for picks and a prospect DOES NOT mean Brewer will. Brewer can draw a lot more of a return than that, because you can bet there will be a lot more interest in him than there was in Comrie. Brew is playing great right now, too.
Second, the Oilers DID NOT turn down Lupul. Murray is the one who refused to give up Lupul for Comrie, even straight up. Get your facts straightQUOTE]

Sure, everything can look good or bad if you take it out of context. The Oilers aren't a playoff team this year. Comrie had a lot of trade value and they could have gotten a player instead of picks and prospects for him (as they did with Lupul) but instead choose to go with prospects. Why? because they are rebuilding. A rebuilding team is one that takes picks and prospects. If they get a similiar offer for Brewer they'd take it.

And it was reported all over the place the Oilers said they would deal with the ducks, then got a deal from the Flyers, so they demaned the Ducks pay them for the privilage to get Comrie. The Lupul deal was done and Lowe screwed the Ducks to trade him to the Flyers. He broke one of those "unwriten" GM rules. And who ever say they needed to move Comrie when they did? If the Oilers were in a position to get into and go anywhere in the playoffs this year he could have sat on Comrie a little longer until he was able to get a roster player for him.

Mother Tucker - Unfortunatly Quinns bad trades far outweight his good ones.

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01-06-2004, 09:51 PM
  #71
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And Oiler fans keep thinking/saying they are going to get a Morris/Drury type deal, but theres one big difference between Morris and Brewer. With Morris the Avs knew what they were getting - a #3-#4 two-way D-man whos very capable of 35+ points a year. Brewers biggest value comes from his potential. He could turn out to be a stud #1 D-man, or he could not. Most teams aren't going to give up a top offensive player for a D-man who might not turn out to be what you want him to be.
Reverse the situation, would you give up one of your top offensive players for a streeky D-man who might be a #1 stud and then again, might not?

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01-06-2004, 10:32 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamboni
You go making comments like these, sluggo, then call other people idiots. Yikes.

First of all, just because Comrie went for picks and a prospect DOES NOT mean Brewer will. Brewer can draw a lot more of a return than that, because you can bet there will be a lot more interest in him than there was in Comrie. Brew is playing great right now, too.

Second, the Oilers DID NOT turn down Lupul. Murray is the one who refused to give up Lupul for Comrie, even straight up. Get your facts straight.

BTW guys, Tucker for a player like Brewer is a JOKE of a proposal. There's more to players than the number of goals they have. Leaf fans overrating Tucker once again = the ultimate LOL.
I thought I read about the Lupul affer being rejected by the ducks as well and that's why Lowe had to settle for a prospoect Perry..

I tried to find the link to an article that says that...Do you have one???

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01-07-2004, 02:54 AM
  #73
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And it was reported all over the place the Oilers said they would deal with the ducks, then got a deal from the Flyers, so they demaned the Ducks pay them for the privilage to get Comrie. The Lupul deal was done and Lowe screwed the Ducks to trade him to the Flyers. He broke one of those "unwriten" GM rules.
The Lupul deal was immediately rejected by Murray, in fact. The deal which was nearly done, and was reported everywhere, and stated by Murray, was for Corey Perry and a first round pick. And the money was requested from Comrie to balance the deal, not from the Ducks. You should really do your research before you state "facts".

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01-07-2004, 03:20 AM
  #74
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[QUOTE=sluggo]
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamboni
First of all, just because Comrie went for picks and a prospect DOES NOT mean Brewer will. Brewer can draw a lot more of a return than that, because you can bet there will be a lot more interest in him than there was in Comrie. Brew is playing great right now, too.
Second, the Oilers DID NOT turn down Lupul. Murray is the one who refused to give up Lupul for Comrie, even straight up. Get your facts straightQUOTE]

Sure, everything can look good or bad if you take it out of context. The Oilers aren't a playoff team this year. Comrie had a lot of trade value and they could have gotten a player instead of picks and prospects for him (as they did with Lupul) but instead choose to go with prospects. Why? because they are rebuilding. A rebuilding team is one that takes picks and prospects. If they get a similiar offer for Brewer they'd take it.

And it was reported all over the place the Oilers said they would deal with the ducks, then got a deal from the Flyers, so they demaned the Ducks pay them for the privilage to get Comrie. The Lupul deal was done and Lowe screwed the Ducks to trade him to the Flyers. He broke one of those "unwriten" GM rules. And who ever say they needed to move Comrie when they did? If the Oilers were in a position to get into and go anywhere in the playoffs this year he could have sat on Comrie a little longer until he was able to get a roster player for him.

Mother Tucker - Unfortunatly Quinns bad trades far outweight his good ones.
sluggo, just admit it. You know nothing about the Oilers. And Quinn;s bad trades do not far outweigh his good ones.

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01-07-2004, 03:23 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamboni
You go making comments like these, sluggo, then call other people idiots. Yikes.

First of all, just because Comrie went for picks and a prospect DOES NOT mean Brewer will. Brewer can draw a lot more of a return than that, because you can bet there will be a lot more interest in him than there was in Comrie. Brew is playing great right now, too.

Second, the Oilers DID NOT turn down Lupul. Murray is the one who refused to give up Lupul for Comrie, even straight up. Get your facts straight.

BTW guys, Tucker for a player like Brewer is a JOKE of a proposal. There's more to players than the number of goals they have. Leaf fans overrating Tucker once again = the ultimate LOL.
Leafs fans overrating Tucker is not nearly as hilarious as Oilers fans overrating Laroque. there is an entire thread on Laroque just full of gems.

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