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Old
08-13-2007, 08:54 AM
  #1
nyr2k2
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Colton Orr

I was just cruising YouTube at work and watched the Orr vs. Fedoruk KO fight. While it was horrifying and something you hate to see, that had to be one of Orr's "best" fights ever. He seems to be a decent fighter who improved his skating to the point that he's not a huge liability out there anymore.

I created this thread because I continue to see people include Orr when predicting line pairings for the upcoming season. Do people think that he's earned himself a spot on the roster and that he deserves to be in the lineup, or is it more a reflection of some people being resigned to Renney's occasionally odd lineups?

I for one think he earned himself a spot as our enforcer. I've knocked the guy many times on this board, but his improvement IMO was very noticeable last year and now I view him as a valuable member of the team. Now, should someone else come around that a better player and fighter than Orr I definitely wouldn't lose any sleep over his departure... But still, the kid and his game have grown on me. Thoughts?

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08-13-2007, 08:56 AM
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I don't need to see him in the lineup.

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08-13-2007, 08:59 AM
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i wouldnt mind seeing him in the line up = a good fight once in a while. I think renney will do that switching hollweg and orr thing again this year. If the game id really agressive (like atlanta game 1) then we should no doubt have orr in the line up. He just needs to work on his break aways.

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08-13-2007, 09:05 AM
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If someone on the roster is going to play 2-4 minutes no matter what, I don't have a problem with Orr being that guy.

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08-13-2007, 09:16 AM
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Larry Melnyk
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Too early for an Orr thread! I just hope to hell that he worked on his skating over the summer...

Even though the real team to worry about is the Pens and their firepower, they still have Laraque and that pest Rutuu (I think or is he still a FA?)..Throw that together with the Devils and Flyers both getting tougher, and I think there's a good chance both Hollweg and Orr make the opening night roster (not neccesarily top 12 )..Unless one or both have slacked off over the summer .If they have, we have a few guys that could take over for either..

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08-13-2007, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
If someone on the roster is going to play 2-4 minutes no matter what, I don't have a problem with Orr being that guy.
i would rather he dressed and sat on the bench until being needed as even though he may have improved his skating somewhat he isnt an NHL anything caliber other than with his fists.

4 minutes per game and the odd fight is more than fine.

i do think he serves a purpose and i would keep him but certainly no more ice time than you suggested

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08-13-2007, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
If someone on the roster is going to play 2-4 minutes no matter what, I don't have a problem with Orr being that guy.
Orr is gonna get alittle more ice time than that, now. He has improved alot in his two seasons and while he may never be confused with Mike Gartner skating wise, he has gotten much better, He'll get his 6 minutes a night probably. Heck, in the Atlanta playoff series I think he averaged almost 8 minutes a game. And Renney even said at the Fanfest this summer that I attended, and asked him specifically about Orr, that Orr has become an "Ink Spot" in our lineup and will remain our enforcer. Renney said he values that role in today's NHL and is not gonna wait for the NHL to protect his players anymore. It was actually pretty funy to listen to him go off on the reffing. He of course, first scanned the crowd to make sure there was no media around to quote him in the papers, but it was pretty amusing. He really laid into the reffing in the NHL in general.

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08-13-2007, 09:22 AM
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Orr serves his purpose. I hope Renny really learned his lesson from the Brashear/Fedoruk incident in Philly last season when they ran all our players and we had nobody on the bench who could do anything.
It looked like he did because he had Orr dressed the next game. We are rather soft and I don't want to see Shanny fighting again as uplifting as it may have been. We'll see Orr dress in certain situations and get 4-8 mins of game time which is plenty to perform his role.

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08-13-2007, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diehardfan419 View Post
Orr is gonna get alittle more ice time than that, now.
I was thinking Hollweg and Orr might end up with even less ice time than last year actually. Not really a commentary on either, only that I think the 4th line is going to be utilized less than ever this year.

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08-13-2007, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I was thinking Hollweg and Orr might end up with even less ice time than last year actually. Not really a commentary on either, only that I think the 4th line is going to be utilized less than ever this year.
Especially if Dubinsky is indeed the third line center. I could see Betts moving up and playing more minutes with the third line when the team has the lead.

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08-13-2007, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I was thinking Hollweg and Orr might end up with even less ice time than last year actually. Not really a commentary on either, only that I think the 4th line is going to be utilized less than ever this year.
i think thats a good assessment on the lines, but i'd like Betts to see some decent ice time. he is a valuable foot solider, he has deserved his 10mins per game definitely.

Hollweg and Orr will provide important /energymuscle to a not very physical team... Regardless of their ice time, they'll be there to provide at least a threat.

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08-13-2007, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I was thinking Hollweg and Orr might end up with even less ice time than last year actually. Not really a commentary on either, only that I think the 4th line is going to be utilized less than ever this year.
I hope it will be utilized more. I'm hoping that we can build some substantial leads with our scoring depth, which will allow us to roll out the third and fourth lines, to beat some people up and shut some people down .

Honestly though, it's always a tough situation for me. I always take a liking to the tough role players (Hollweg especially) who get little ice time. On one hand, I want to see them out there, but on the other hand I realize that I root for the Rangers above individual players and I want the best players out there when it matters.

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08-13-2007, 09:43 AM
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Melrose_Jr.
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
i think thats a good assessment on the lines, but i'd like Betts to see some decent ice time. he is a valuable foot solider, he has deserved his 10mins per game definitely.
I expect Betts will log his time on the PK and be thrown out there for the occasional defensive zone face-off.

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I hope it will be utilized more. I'm hoping that we can build some substantial leads with our scoring depth, which will allow us to roll out the third and fourth lines, to beat some people up and shut some people down
We can hope, but it's hard to imagine Gomez and Drury getting much less than 20 minutes each, which doesn't leave a lot of time for the bottom 2 lines to skate.

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08-13-2007, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
We can hope, but it's hard to imagine Gomez and Drury getting much less than 20 minutes each, which doesn't leave a lot of time for the bottom 2 lines to skate.
In my fantasy world, Melrose, we're usually up 5-0 headed into the third and the top two lines get most of the period off .

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08-13-2007, 10:23 AM
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you cant bench KOlton Score
we dont need to get rid of him. we finally have a legit enforcer, the rangers wont be bullied around, cuz they have someone who is willing to fight, and actually can fight

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08-13-2007, 10:44 AM
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Colton Orr earns a spot x10

But only against certain teams. The Flyers, Devils, Pitts etc

Hopefully Renny wont forget the game against Philly last year when he failed to dress Orr. The Rangers got their heads handed to them. Teams will go after Jagr and Henke w/o an enforcer in the lineup and Colton Orr breaks faces.

Orr has a place on this team

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08-13-2007, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I expect Betts will log his time on the PK and be thrown out there for the occasional defensive zone face-off.



We can hope, but it's hard to imagine Gomez and Drury getting much less than 20 minutes each, which doesn't leave a lot of time for the bottom 2 lines to skate.
you realize that both Gomez and Drury are better on faceoffs then betts right?

it's not hard to imagine Gomez getting less then 20 minutes a night if the rangers still take 3 penalties a period...Gomez doesn't kill penalties..

I hate Orr...I think he sucks as a fighter and as a player..he adds zip...with that being said renney loves him and Orr is going to make the team...

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08-13-2007, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I was just cruising YouTube at work and watched the Orr vs. Fedoruk KO fight. While it was horrifying and something you hate to see, that had to be one of Orr's "best" fights ever. He seems to be a decent fighter who improved his skating to the point that he's not a huge liability out there anymore.

I created this thread because I continue to see people include Orr when predicting line pairings for the upcoming season. Do people think that he's earned himself a spot on the roster and that he deserves to be in the lineup, or is it more a reflection of some people being resigned to Renney's occasionally odd lineups?

I for one think he earned himself a spot as our enforcer. I've knocked the guy many times on this board, but his improvement IMO was very noticeable last year and now I view him as a valuable member of the team. Now, should someone else come around that a better player and fighter than Orr I definitely wouldn't lose any sleep over his departure... But still, the kid and his game have grown on me. Thoughts?

I have followed his career even before he came to NY. In the fight department he was always at an elite level, whether that be in Jrs, or in the AHL level. Whilke in Jrs during training camp, there were 4 other guys battling for the teams enforcer. He was a young kid, and battled everyone of them. All 4 results were the same. TKO's in brutal fashion. I was a little worried that the Bruins wouldn't let him see icetime though when he first made it. I was worried that his skating would keep him at the AHL level. But what he lacked in skating ability, he made up for in defensive play...at least enough to keep him around some. I couldn't believe it when I read that the Rangers grabbed him off waivers. Totally surprised. While w/Boston he was a lot bigger. He had better results when facing the big boys of the league...Belak and Cairns to name a couple. Since joining the Rangers they did make him shed a few pounds and that resulted in him not be as competitive with the superheavys of the game...but even with that, he is still definately a top ten heavyweight. He also has built a nice little reputation for himself as well. That didn't start in the NHL, but went back to his days in Jrs and the AHL. He has broken many a facial bone, and TKO'd more guys in the early stages of his career than anyone since Joey Kocur. Now granted he doesn't win as many as Kocur did, but he certainly has the punching power. Boogaard also has the same KO power, but his size and reach makes him that much more deadly. For Orr though, I am very happy the guy is the desiganted enforcer in NY. He is as honest an enforcer as they come. He never ducks anyone, and he always does his job. This will be a tough season for him though. The guy gets to face 2 of the top 3 superheavys in the league 8 times. Laraque in Pitt, and Brash in Wash. If the Flyers would have been successful in snatching Boogaard from the Wild it would have been a real long season for Orr.

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08-13-2007, 10:59 AM
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Orr is simply our nuclear deterrent. It may be necessary to dress him most games however giving him a lot of ice time is not necessary and unless we're far ahead or behind in a game or need urgently to send a message the more time he sits on the end of the bench the better. He is a good fighter--he's not a good NHL player. His skating has improved but it still sucks. Hollweg is a better player--maybe worthy of more ice team. He is a good skater and a very hard forechecker but he is limited offensively and not great defensively. Betts is a very good defensive player and a good faceoff man. He's a 4th liner however because he has little to no offensive creativity. Moving him up to the third line to replace a Dubinsky (if Dubi were to make the team) to protect late leads is actually a good idea. And of course Betts is a vital part of our penalty kill. He should get his 10 minutes or so a game with or without Hollweg and Orr as his linemates.

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08-13-2007, 11:13 AM
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I think Renney showed last year after the Philly game that Orr is gonna dress in the majority of our games. Take a look at our record the last month of the season, Orr was dressed for all those games and the team was winning. He even played in all 4 Playoff games against Atlanta. Orr is still young and raw but he has unique punching power. He still needs to figure out how to handle the lefties (Brash/Laraque) who like to smother you and throw rabbit punches. Fighting is still a part of the NHL wheter people wanna admit it or not, as long as it is players like Orr will serve a purpose.

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08-13-2007, 11:29 AM
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I think Renney showed last year after the Philly game that Orr is gonna dress in the majority of our games. Take a look at our record the last month of the season, Orr was dressed for all those games and the team was winning. He even played in all 4 Playoff games against Atlanta. Orr is still young and raw but he has unique punching power. He still needs to figure out how to handle the lefties (Brash/Laraque) who like to smother you and throw rabbit punches. Fighting is still a part of the NHL wheter people wanna admit it or not, as long as it is players like Orr will serve a purpose.
yah, thats also because the rangers traded for avery

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08-13-2007, 11:30 AM
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Theres not a player in the NHL who hasnt seen that vid.

His main job is as a deterrent to teams taking shots at the skilled guys

Just dressing him will often do the job. Still guys like Jansens will need their regular beatdown....just because

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08-13-2007, 11:33 AM
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You're gonna need him badly against the division, and not just to defend Jagr and co...yeah, Eager and Janssen and Laraque love to run star players, but it's guys like Avery and Hollweg on your own team that will make Orr necessary. Guys who will be pests themselves but can't fight the heavyweights of the league. The worst thing you can do is go into a game with 2 pests and no legit heavyweight, because you're gonna make players who just aren't up to it answer the call.

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08-13-2007, 11:34 AM
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SoS...

figure Gomez and Drury to average what they've been averaging the last few seasons - which will be around 18-19 minutes, with a bit more ES time than they've received in the past as a result of a bit less PP time (how do you get Jagr, Gomez, Drury and Shanny first PP unit ice time when there's only four forward positions?).

The Rangers should be a very good faceoff team. Even Avery stepped up his faceoffs in the playoffs.

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08-13-2007, 11:41 AM
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you realize that both Gomez and Drury are better on faceoffs then betts right?

it's not hard to imagine Gomez getting less then 20 minutes a night if the rangers still take 3 penalties a period...Gomez doesn't kill penalties..

I hate Orr...I think he sucks as a fighter and as a player..he adds zip...with that being said renney loves him and Orr is going to make the team...
I hadn't checked the faceoff percentages, but it stands to reason that a good draw man will take the occasional defensive zone faceoff, or for that matter, shift on the 3rd line depending on who ends up being the 3rd line center.

Would it really surprise you to see the new players outside of their traditional roles? If Gomez and/or Drury does end up getting substantially less than 20 minutes on a regular basis, I'll be surprised and you'll remind me how wrong I was.

Renney does a lot of things I don't understand or agree with. I'm not advocating Orr in the lineup or a 2 1/2 line strategy, I'm just saying I can see how Orr fits into that game plan.

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