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01-09-2004, 12:23 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
That isn't true at all.

Boosh stole the starting job from Beezer when he went on a hot streak to close the season. Kinda like the hot streak he is having now. What seperates back-ups from starters is that starters string together an entire season while the back-ups can only manage that level in spurts. Boucher has never had a season where he played at a high level all year. If this 4-game streak could be just another spurt in what has become an inconsistent career.

Boucher was given a secure hold on the starting job. After his rookie run, Boucher gon into a contract dispute for more money. He got it. Flyers moved out Beezer and gave Boucher the starting job on a silver platter. Cechmanek was a late-round after though brought in to back-up Boucher and nothing more. Boucher did have to look behind him and worry about his starting job, but that was because he had to dig those pucks out of the net from all the goals he was giving up. I think he had a month stretch where he didn't have a single game of less than 3 goals. Despite stinking so badly, Ramsey stuck with him. Cechmanek played his way out of the minors and dominated over Boucher, but it wasn't until Ramsey was fired that Barber cut the cord with Boucher and let Cechamnek save our season. Boucher lost the starting job on his own accord. He flat-out sucked.

Even the next season, Boucher was given TWO chances to take over the job again. Cechmanek again started slow, but Boucher didn't capitalize and Cechmanek again grossly outplayed him to push him aside. Mid-season, Cechmanek got hurt. Boucher had a golden opportunity to come in and prove that he is 'the man'. He again failed.

Boucher was given ample opportunity to start here. He just wasn't up to the task. Even this run in Phoenix has to be taken with a grain of salt as it represents 1/3 his action for the season. Boucher could very well just be a back-up who runs hot-and-cold that cannot be counted on for a full season.
From what I remembered, Boucher played well, but the team around him really lacked, and wouldn't score more than a goal or two (if lucky) every game... You can't ask a goalie to win games when the team can't score more than a goal or two.

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01-09-2004, 01:46 PM
  #27
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JCD's post is right on, IMO

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01-09-2004, 04:53 PM
  #28
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As we used to say in Philly.... BOOOOOOOSH! woo hoo, hurray for Brian.

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01-09-2004, 05:25 PM
  #29
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Boosh gets his fifth straight shutout!

WTG Boosh.

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01-09-2004, 07:00 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capn89
From what I remembered, Boucher played well, but the team around him really lacked, and wouldn't score more than a goal or two (if lucky) every game... You can't ask a goalie to win games when the team can't score more than a goal or two.
Go check his game log versus Cechmanek's game log on Sportsline. Their last season together is still up.

In 2191 minutes of play, Flyers scored 104 goals for Boosh. 2.85 per game. Boucher gave up 85 on his way to a 17-15-4 record. Flyers were held to 1 goal 10 times. Boucher went 1-8-1. Flyers were never shut out with Boucher in net.

In 2592 minutes, Flyers gave Cechmanek 133 goals. 3.08 per game. Cechmanek gave up 88 on his way to a 24-13-6 record. Flyers were held to 1 goal 7 times for Cechmanek, Cechmanek went 2-4-1.

The difference in goal support isn't much. While you are correct in saying you can't ask a goalie to make 1 goal stand every night, they need to make that one goal stand sometimes. Boucher proved incapable of getting a win unless his team scored 2+ goals.

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01-09-2004, 07:06 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Boosh gets his fifth straight shutout!

WTG Boosh.
SWEEEEEET!!!! Congrats!

About Boucher failing on his chances, I remember that second half of the story a bit different. He played as well as Cechmanek, sometimes better. After Cechmanek went down there was no reason to make him the number one. Boucher played very well and I think the players liked him because of how he played during the playoff run. He played his heart out. Cechmanek proved to be streaky and came back shaky. Barber allowed him to "work it out" and he fell apart in the playoffs, not unlike last year. Boucher may not have proved he was an elite goaltender, but he was better going in to the playoffs than Cechmanek and deserved the starts.

 
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01-09-2004, 08:29 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanKordicsFist
SWEEEEEET!!!! Congrats!

Cechmanek proved to be streaky and came back shaky. Barber allowed him to "work it out" and he fell apart in the playoffs, not unlike last year. Boucher may not have proved he was an elite goaltender, but he was better going in to the playoffs than Cechmanek and deserved the starts.
Wait a minute, isnt that the playoffs we only scored 2 GOALS IN 5 GAMES? Cechmanek played well. He got no support at either end of the ice.

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01-09-2004, 10:49 PM
  #33
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5 in a row!!?!?! He's streaky, yes. But he's the kind of goalie that can get hot at the right time, i.e. the PLAYOFFS, and play better than anyone we've got. And isn't that what you could ever hope for?

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01-10-2004, 02:33 AM
  #34
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BOOOSH!

Congrats to Boosh on the record! That's impressive.

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01-10-2004, 02:49 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers26
BOOOSH!

Congrats to Boosh on the record! That's impressive.
Well said, baron........right now, Boosh is THE man!

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01-10-2004, 04:11 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanKordicsFist
SWEEEEEET!!!! Congrats!

About Boucher failing on his chances, I remember that second half of the story a bit different. He played as well as Cechmanek, sometimes better. After Cechmanek went down there was no reason to make him the number one. Boucher played very well and I think the players liked him because of how he played during the playoff run. He played his heart out. Cechmanek proved to be streaky and came back shaky. Barber allowed him to "work it out" and he fell apart in the playoffs, not unlike last year. Boucher may not have proved he was an elite goaltender, but he was better going in to the playoffs than Cechmanek and deserved the starts.
Huh? Again, I think people should really go look at the actual game logs and see for themselves.
http://www.sportsline.com/nhl/player...ogs/2001/19760

Boucher had won all of 3 of his last 13 starts before Barber rode Cechmanek into the play-offs. He started every game in March. Boucher was given more than enough time to 'work it out' and simply stunk. Had Boucher not played so poorly, we could have won the division. The only thing he was more consistent than Cechmanek at was stringing together winless streaks.

Cechmanek did come back shakey, but even a shakey Cechmanek was better than the egg Boucher had laid for the previous month+. Cechmanek was the clear choice to start heading into the post-season. Boucher was ice cold and hadn't looked good since January.

As for the post-season, come on... Cechmanek was solid against Ottawa that year. In the 4 games he played, the Flyers scored only one goal for Cechmanek, and Cechmanek made that stand up a 1-0 OT win. Our only win of the series.

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01-10-2004, 04:12 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Wait a minute, isnt that the playoffs we only scored 2 GOALS IN 5 GAMES? Cechmanek played well. He got no support at either end of the ice.
Close. 1 goal in 4 games (an OT gamewinner was the only goal scored.

Boucher was in net for Game 5 and lost 2-1 in OT.

Cechmanek was one of the only players who didn't flat-out suck in that series.

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01-10-2004, 04:47 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by JCD
Huh? Again, I think people should really go look at the actual game logs and see for themselves.
http://www.sportsline.com/nhl/player...ogs/2001/19760

Boucher had won all of 3 of his last 13 starts before Barber rode Cechmanek into the play-offs. He started every game in March. Boucher was given more than enough time to 'work it out' and simply stunk. Had Boucher not played so poorly, we could have won the division. The only thing he was more consistent than Cechmanek at was stringing together winless streaks.

Cechmanek did come back shakey, but even a shakey Cechmanek was better than the egg Boucher had laid for the previous month+. Cechmanek was the clear choice to start heading into the post-season. Boucher was ice cold and hadn't looked good since January.

As for the post-season, come on... Cechmanek was solid against Ottawa that year. In the 4 games he played, the Flyers scored only one goal for Cechmanek, and Cechmanek made that stand up a 1-0 OT win. Our only win of the series.
Wow those game logs sure tell PART of the story. I guess you also thought they were better off with Lindros in the playoffs against New Jersey. That team was in disarray because of Barber. It didn't matter who was in net. Boucher was as solid as anybody could be, including Cechmanek. Since he didn't get the starts we'll never really know if it made a difference. I do remember feeling he was a better choice than Cechmanek, just as I felt Lindros' return destroyed team chemistry in the playoffs. That's the feeling I had whether or not the stats were in his favor or not.

 
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01-10-2004, 04:57 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanKordicsFist
Wow those game logs sure tell PART of the story. I guess you also thought they were better off with Lindros in the playoffs against New Jersey. That team was in disarray because of Barber. It didn't matter who was in net. Boucher was as solid as anybody could be, including Cechmanek. Since he didn't get the starts we'll never really know if it made a difference. I do remember feeling he was a better choice than Cechmanek, just as I felt Lindros' return destroyed team chemistry in the playoffs. That's the feeling I had whether or not the stats were in his favor or not.
Yes, Lindros did throw off the Chemistry... in the Middle of the Jersey series, we led 3-1, the idea that he might be back swirled in the air like a stench from a sewage plant. The fact is, Jersey went on to win the series, and beat Dallas for the cup... just imagine, if Lindros doesn't come back (ever) and we beat Jersey, I believe we would have beat Dallas... Philly would have had a cup, and i don't even think Lindros' name would have been on it.

About Boucher being streaky (mentioned by someone above)... Streaky or not, you have to have a high calibur of talent to picth 5 straight shut outs... in fact, no on in the modren era has ever done it... And once again, Boucher will be in the history books. When Hackett or Esche ever do something amazing, let me know. :-p

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01-10-2004, 05:59 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanKordicsFist
Wow those game logs sure tell PART of the story. I guess you also thought they were better off with Lindros in the playoffs against New Jersey. That team was in disarray because of Barber. It didn't matter who was in net. Boucher was as solid as anybody could be, including Cechmanek. Since he didn't get the starts we'll never really know if it made a difference. I do remember feeling he was a better choice than Cechmanek, just as I felt Lindros' return destroyed team chemistry in the playoffs. That's the feeling I had whether or not the stats were in his favor or not.
That might have been your feeling, but I don't think it was widespread.

Who has confidence in a goalie that has won only 3 games in over a month? Who hadn't won 4 of 7 in over 4 months? Who last pitched a shut-out in October? Boucher was playing terribly. If the team had more confidence in Boucher than Cechmanek, they sure were not showing on the ice and sure were not thinking that when the voted Cechmanek the team's MVP (again). Stats can be misleading, but these certainly are not. Boucher had done absolutely nothing in the 2 years since his remarkable play-off run to show that he was anything more than a flash in the pan.

The team was in disarray because they lack leadership. When things get tough, they collapse and look for somebody to blame.

Your take on Lindros is a perfect example. He is blamed for the NJ loss. Truth is, Flyers were already well on their way to collapse before he even entered the picture. Lindros was far and away our best skater in Game Six. He was less than half a second away from the tying the game on his own and was the only player we had generating scoring chances. That the team collapsed when he returned is more an indication of team's character than of Lindros presence. They acted like a bunch of pouty brats. Lindros was gone after that, but the Flyers pulled that exact same pouty-brat-blame-somebody when Ottawa embarrassed them (1 goal in 4 games) and did it again (to a lesser extent) this last summer. Lindros was but another in a long line of excuses and scapegoats to mask the underlying problem of a rotten core of players lacking leadership.


Last edited by JCD: 01-10-2004 at 06:02 AM.
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01-10-2004, 06:10 AM
  #41
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If Boucher doesn't get a hurt a year or so ago, he is still a Flyer.

I remember vividly how Cechmanek started the season playing so well, then got hurt, then Boucher came in and was absolutely lights up.

Then, he pulled a groin, Cecho came back, shut the lights out again and Clarke moved the guy with the bigger contract and the guy they thought was not the starter.

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01-10-2004, 07:07 AM
  #42
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and we could have had him for free, the tandem of Esche/Boucher sounds pretty good to me right now

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01-10-2004, 07:48 AM
  #43
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He's relaxed and having fun in Phoenix. I watched the record breking game and he made everything look easy. He is focused. I don't know if it was a lack of focus or a real mentor for a young tender when he was here. Last night he looked like Gigure last year in the playoffs. I think what killed Bouch here was us. :mad:

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01-10-2004, 08:23 AM
  #44
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first, congrats to Boosh!

now, I to remember Boucher playing very well at times for the Flyers and very bad others. he was a streaky goalie that lacked consistency and I think that the Flyers organization(Clarke) grew tired of it. Boucher did get every opportunity to succeed here and he didn't make it happen. once he lost his starting job to Cecho, he started sobbing and saying that maybe the Flyers should move him if he couldn't start here.

I still like the trade today because I think at some point he is going to come back down to earth. on the other side Boucher is only 27yrs old and could be hitting his prime right now.

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01-10-2004, 08:24 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
Your take on Lindros is a perfect example. He is blamed for the NJ loss. Truth is, Flyers were already well on their way to collapse before he even entered the picture. Lindros was far and away our best skater in Game Six. He was less than half a second away from the tying the game on his own and was the only player we had generating scoring chances. That the team collapsed when he returned is more an indication of team's character than of Lindros presence. They acted like a bunch of pouty brats. Lindros was gone after that, but the Flyers pulled that exact same pouty-brat-blame-somebody when Ottawa embarrassed them (1 goal in 4 games) and did it again (to a lesser extent) this last summer. Lindros was but another in a long line of excuses and scapegoats to mask the underlying problem of a rotten core of players lacking leadership.
I didn't see you mention Boucher at fault for the "collapse" in the NJ series? Was he? Of course not. I don't care if Boucher gave up 16 goals a game the next year, if the team wouldn't score for him, it wouldn't matter. Stats are misleading... the biggest key to making judgement calls are actually seeing the games. They have no statistics for "unstoppable shots" or "defensive breakdowns"... when a team plays poorly, focus shifts to the goaltenders because they're the ones the statistics fall on.

About a "flash in the pan"... so what is he now? Two flashes in the pan? He's a good goaltender who, as Bob Clarke Fan Club stated, was ruined by "us." The pressure in Philadelphia (in all four of the major sports) is intense. The Flyers seems to have a history of throwing away players too soon. Ruslan Fedotenko was one of my favorites, and he's not a super star in Tampa right now, but he's doing a LOT better than the secondary players on this team. Why do we still have Gagne? He is injury prone, he is NOT scoring, his shooting % is ****, which means he is not a finisher. And I don't mean to single out Gagne, but the fact that Clarke gives up on young talent too fast in wrong cases, and keeps other young talent around too long. Another example, although not young talent, Cechmanek, he was kept in Philly one year too long... he should have been traded after his hissy fit in the Ottawa series... granted, he had a right, the team sucked... but it's a TEAM game, and it's not about one player any more than the other... just look at New Jersey.

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01-10-2004, 08:27 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerGuy69
first, congrats to Boosh!

now, I to remember Boucher playing very well at times for the Flyers and very bad others. he was a streaky goalie that lacked consistency and I think that the Flyers organization(Clarke) grew tired of it. Boucher did get every opportunity to succeed here and he didn't make it happen. once he lost his starting job to Cecho, he started sobbing and saying that maybe the Flyers should move him if he couldn't start here.

I still like the trade today because I think at some point he is going to come back down to earth. on the other side Boucher is only 27yrs old and could be hitting his prime right now.
The way I look at is, some times you have to find your groove. If a guy is going to be banished to the bench after a few bad starts in favor of Mr Floppy Pants (cechmanek) it's like benching an allstar forward because of a few bad shifts & only giving him 5 minutes of ice time every game... you just can't do much. I think the mentor thing played a lot into it too... when it was Boosh and Beezer, he was solid... but when Beezer was dropped, it was him and ... blank. I don't think it's pressure, I think it's just the lack of someone to work with. Hockey players are human, and as they say "everybody needs somebody."

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01-10-2004, 08:43 AM
  #47
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capn89-
time will tell, that's all I can say because I remember it differently but I think it will all even out by the end of the year. I know that he's as hot as you can get right now but until he proves that he can do it long term than I'm not a believer and I don't mean that he has to get a shutout every night, just play good.

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01-10-2004, 09:06 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by JCD
That might have been your feeling, but I don't think it was widespread.

Who has confidence in a goalie that has won only 3 games in over a month? Who hadn't won 4 of 7 in over 4 months? Who last pitched a shut-out in October? Boucher was playing terribly. If the team had more confidence in Boucher than Cechmanek, they sure were not showing on the ice and sure were not thinking that when the voted Cechmanek the team's MVP (again). Stats can be misleading, but these certainly are not. Boucher had done absolutely nothing in the 2 years since his remarkable play-off run to show that he was anything more than a flash in the pan.

The team was in disarray because they lack leadership. When things get tough, they collapse and look for somebody to blame.

Your take on Lindros is a perfect example. He is blamed for the NJ loss. Truth is, Flyers were already well on their way to collapse before he even entered the picture. Lindros was far and away our best skater in Game Six. He was less than half a second away from the tying the game on his own and was the only player we had generating scoring chances. That the team collapsed when he returned is more an indication of team's character than of Lindros presence. They acted like a bunch of pouty brats. Lindros was gone after that, but the Flyers pulled that exact same pouty-brat-blame-somebody when Ottawa embarrassed them (1 goal in 4 games) and did it again (to a lesser extent) this last summer. Lindros was but another in a long line of excuses and scapegoats to mask the underlying problem of a rotten core of players lacking leadership.
Well, we just have to agree to disagree. While you say how bad Boosh was you don't seem to be saying Cechmanek was great. Boosh was as good as Cechmanek and deserved the starts based on his past playoff run.

Your take on Lindros, however is hilarious. It must make it easier to believe these guys are robots who either perform or are broken rather than see that there is a very psychological side to this. Nobody went around blaming Lindros, except me and a few other fans. Clarke didn't blame him. The team didn't blame him. He talked s**t about the team. Took his issues to the press instead of the source. The team had gone through 2 rounds of playoffs, including a five overtime game. They were up 3 to 1 on the Devils and yet you believe they were on the verge of falling apart? They stopped as soon as it was announced Lindros would return to the team. The next game, WITHOUT lindros, they played very poorly. All the fire and grit seemingly vanished. They stood back and let Lindros try to win it all since Clarke basically told them they weren't good enough. But I guess Barber was a great coach who had the worst possible luck with players that Hitchcock seems to be able to win with.

 
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01-10-2004, 09:49 AM
  #49
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He's relaxed and having fun in Phoenix. I watched the record breking game and he made everything look easy. He is focused. I don't know if it was a lack of focus or a real mentor for a young tender when he was here. Last night he looked like Gigure last year in the playoffs. I think what killed Bouch here was us. :mad:
since he came to Phoenix the goaltending coach Benoit Allaire started working with him to change his style. Sean Burke had been working with Allaire and that is why he improved so much. Burke is playing better goal now than at anytime in his earlier career. Problem was that Burke is very tall at 6' 4" and is well suited to Allaires goaltending techniques. When Boucher arrived in Phoenix he came under Allaire's tutelage but was not suited to the same style as he is not as big and tall as Burke. Trying to change his technique nearly destroyed Boucher and he had a very poor season. This season boosh started to play a hibrid style, partly Benoit Allaire's and partly his own. That seems to be working well for him now. Even before his 5 game shutout streak Boosh has been very steady and seems to have overcome his tendency to be inconsistent. Needless to say, though, the Coyotes have been playing superbly in front of him. Last season he had no support from the team in front of him at all. They only played well with Burke in net and he was injured most of the year. Many fans in Phoenix think that Boosh's current play is the real deal and at 27 years old has finally matured as a goaltender. Only time will tell but the whole team has come together and it looks like the Coyotes will make the playoffs. Needless to say but the fans in Phoenix are really excited about his 5 game shutout streak.

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01-10-2004, 10:09 AM
  #50
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time will tell, that's all I can say because I remember it differently but I think it will all even out by the end of the year. I know that he's as hot as you can get right now but until he proves that he can do it long term than I'm not a believer and I don't mean that he has to get a shutout every night, just play good.
I'll say one thing, being in New Jersey, and not in the Phoenix area, it's going to be tough to judge whether he plays well, because stats are stats, but seeing is believing. Seeing him play is key. Like I mentioned before, there are no goalie statistics for "unstoppable shots" and "defensive breakdowns." That's a tough thing to judge, too. Unlike with base ball where they have EARNED runs average etc. There's no Earned Goals Allowed Average. So it's sketchy. That's why they have scouts, and don't always go by paper. The Rangers are a perfect of example of playing by the numbers... lol

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