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Headaches/Cancers in the NHL?

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Old
01-06-2004, 03:29 PM
  #51
HBLee82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLUC20
A crappy GM??? I strongly disagree. When he became GM he turned the Kings into a respectable organization again. Look at what he's done through drafting... the Kings have one of the best groups of prospects in the league (Brown, Grebeshkov, Gleason through a trade, Aulin, Cammalleri and Frolov though no longer prospects, Kanko, Pushkarov, Boyle, Tambellini... etc) The future looks very bright. What kinds of horrible choices are you talking about?

He is far from being the headache on this team. If you want to choose the biggest head case, you can look no further than Jason Allison. That SOB needs to shut his pie hole. I'm tired of hearing his primadonna bs in the media. He is becoming a distraction and cancer to the team. He's a non-roster player and is no where near the ice nor has he even played a game in almost a year. That should tell you who the headache is for the Kings.
I think the way he has been handling the Allison and Deadmarsh issues is bad. Allison needs his phantom whiplash to go away, and Deadmarsh needs a push to realize he needs to retire. Deadmarsh isn't coming back. The Kings organization need to say ya know we love you but you need to make it official so they can move on.

Yes I agree the Kings to have good prospects Frolov and Cammalleri have been living beyond my expectations this season, Frolov is going to be a leauge leader.
So maybe I am wrong, that Dave Taylor isn't a cancer, but he needs to handle situations better to get this team back to thinking about hockey not weather or not an over rated player is coming back to the team anytime soon or not.

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01-06-2004, 05:08 PM
  #52
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I'm going to ignore that distasteful attempt at a joke, to keep the thread going.

Canucks don't really have a headache that I know of.

Jeff Brown was for sure.

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Old
01-06-2004, 05:22 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PEli
Nobody in Jersey gives the team any headaches anymore. Danton is gone and so is Arnott. Those were the two that did their fair share of public complaining and both got the boot quickly after doing it.
Holik used to be vocal with the press also, now Larionov is approaching that boundary, although I wouldn't be surprised if it's just poor journalism trying to make something out of nothing.

Even Colin White doesn't take untimely penalties anymore.

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01-06-2004, 05:25 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by York16
How?
Take off the blindfold, please.

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Old
01-06-2004, 05:28 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppelin97
So they're paying Bettman over 6 million per year to do nothing?

Actually, indicating Bettman doesn't make decisions shows how weak he appears to be to many of us. He makes decisions, but they're all pasty band-aids. He lacks a clear vision to truly improve the NHL.

Board of Governors, hardcore fans, longtime NHL enthusiasts all love the game as is, and noone really wants to change and modify the sport. Bettman often appeases the Board because he's WEAK. He's no leader.
Gary Bettman is a business man, and his job as commissioner is to handle the business aspect of the game on the NHL's behalf...not the on-ice product.

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01-06-2004, 05:32 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Gary Bettman is a business man, and his job as commissioner is to handle the business aspect of the game on the NHL's behalf...not the on-ice product.
I'm not entirely sure he's doing a great job in that respect either. Not saying there are miraculous solutions but I think he certainly did not as good as he could and should have.

However, part of the problem is also the global NHL leadership. Owners have definitly not helped him as much as they should have.

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01-06-2004, 05:43 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I'm not entirely sure he's doing a great job in that respect either.
I have no problem with people having that opinion. I just hate it so much when people blame Bettman if they think the on-ice product is boring to watch. The near-universal blaming of Bettman for on-ice issues shows the ignorance of the average fan.

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01-06-2004, 07:26 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBLee82
I think the way he has been handling the Allison and Deadmarsh issues is bad. Allison needs his phantom whiplash to go away, and Deadmarsh needs a push to realize he needs to retire. Deadmarsh isn't coming back. The Kings organization need to say ya know we love you but you need to make it official so they can move on.

Yes I agree the Kings to have good prospects Frolov and Cammalleri have been living beyond my expectations this season, Frolov is going to be a leauge leader.
So maybe I am wrong, that Dave Taylor isn't a cancer, but he needs to handle situations better to get this team back to thinking about hockey not weather or not an over rated player is coming back to the team anytime soon or not.
I agree with you on that, but this has nothing to do with the decisions and choices Dave Taylor has made in his entire career as a GM to regard him as "crappy". He's a good GM and has built the organization to have a good future.

About Allison, I agree. As a fan, I'd like some closure on the whole situation. Is he coming back? Is he not? I'm sick and tired of the speculation. I want to know what is going on because there has been no definitive answer. There needs to be word on Deadmarsh as well. It's pretty much a well-known fact that he will not come back this year, but we need to know this so that we can focus on the Kings we have now instead of worry about "man, wait till Deadmarsh and Allison come back!"... etc.

I thought the Kings were doing a pretty good job earlier in the year about forgetting who JA and AD were. Out of sight, out of mind... that's the way it should be for them and that's how they played earlier in the year. If anyone is to blame for this, it's the media for their constant barrage of questions concerning the injury status of Jason Allison. Now that this whole "controversy" or public sniping is out, the Kings have become distracted, they are in a slump and this situation certainly does not help... damn the media.

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Old
01-06-2004, 07:47 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
How is Jason Allison a headcase when he's out with post concussion syndrome?
good one...

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Old
01-06-2004, 08:32 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kira
We don't seem to have that problem on the Wings...if any one was even remotely close to being a headache it was probably Fedorov, but even he was just a minor glitch.

Love having a team with no ego problems.
Give me a break.

There have been reports that the Wings dressing room is divided by the Joseph/Hasek rift. Dressing rooms full of superstars (especially ones that have not grown together in the organization but have been acquired through trades or free agency) are bound to cause problems, especially when you have jackasses like Brett Hull in the mix. Face it, the Wings have nowhere near the leadership at the top that they had under Bowman. At least he could keep his troops on the same page, look at the trainwreck that was last year's playoff series against Anaheim as evidence of that.

I know you are a diehard Wings fan kira, but please take off the red-and-white coloured glasses for a second.

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Old
01-06-2004, 08:42 PM
  #61
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why is everbody focusing on Lowe's "bad" trades (which weren't bad given the circumstances) and neglecting his brilliant ones like the York for Poti, Deslauriers and Stoll for Hecht, and Dvorak for Carter trades?

Both Weight and Comrie didn't give Lowe much to work on. And on both trades he solidified the Oiler's post CBA roster. He got us Deslauriers and Stoll (although indirectly), and Woywitka...all three who have a bright future in the Oilers organization. And where would the Oilers be right now without their leading scorer York and capable winger Dvorak?

Just because Lowe's tactics are unconventional doesn't make him a headcase. In fact, I'm pretty sure 90% of the league's GMs (with the exception of Anaheim's Murray) applaud Lowe for standing up for what he believes.

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01-06-2004, 09:25 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kira
We don't seem to have that problem on the Wings...if any one was even remotely close to being a headache it was probably Fedorov, but even he was just a minor glitch.

Love having a team with no ego problems.
Uhhh Joeseph?Hasek?

Didn't Hasek put HIMSELF,on IR because of cujo?seems cancerous to me.

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01-07-2004, 06:39 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Take off the blindfold, please.
What?


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Old
01-07-2004, 03:45 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by York16
What?
Ever seen Old School?

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01-07-2004, 06:45 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
I have no problem with people having that opinion. I just hate it so much when people blame Bettman if they think the on-ice product is boring to watch. The near-universal blaming of Bettman for on-ice issues shows the ignorance of the average fan.
Exactly. Most of the blame for the on ice product lies at the feet of the GM's. Bettman can propose changes but it is a vote by the GM's that determines what is implemented. For example Bettman proposed that a win in regulation be worth 3 points but that was too radical for the GM's and they wouldn't consider it. Bettman was right. A win in regulation should be worth more than a win in overtime.

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01-07-2004, 10:34 PM
  #66
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Old
01-07-2004, 11:08 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
why is everbody focusing on Lowe's "bad" trades (which weren't bad given the circumstances) and neglecting his brilliant ones like the York for Poti, Deslauriers and Stoll for Hecht, and Dvorak for Carter trades?
Because anyone can make trades. Making trades and managing a tight budget (as Lowe must do) is an entirely different matter, one that some fans overlook. :p

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01-08-2004, 02:59 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
why is everbody focusing on Lowe's "bad" trades (which weren't bad given the circumstances) and neglecting his brilliant ones like the York for Poti, Deslauriers and Stoll for Hecht, and Dvorak for Carter trades?

Both Weight and Comrie didn't give Lowe much to work on. And on both trades he solidified the Oiler's post CBA roster. He got us Deslauriers and Stoll (although indirectly), and Woywitka...all three who have a bright future in the Oilers organization. And where would the Oilers be right now without their leading scorer York and capable winger Dvorak?

Just because Lowe's tactics are unconventional doesn't make him a headcase. In fact, I'm pretty sure 90% of the league's GMs (with the exception of Anaheim's Murray) applaud Lowe for standing up for what he believes.
He is a headcase. He ripped Comrie in public, and sat on him for "revenge" when Lowe knew (in his heart of hearts) that he would never keep him. He should have dispatched him before becoming a distraction.

And keep in mind he didn't trade hecht directly for those players. He got them in the draft. And as much as I say he may be trying to set the oil up for something post CBA, he got NOTHING of CONSEQUENCE for his #1 centres, twice in a row.

Bring up the Poti for York deal as miraculous - hard to tell. Look what playing for the Rags does to a fellow like Kovalev.

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01-08-2004, 03:08 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by York16
What are you talking about? Lowe held onto Comrie until he found a deal that was best for the Oilers. "Egomanical revenge?" Give me a break.

Lowe spread rumors that he was a choker? I live in the city and not once did I hear that. Kevin repeatedly said MC was a good kid and a good, young hockey player. The $2.535 million request was just that: a request, a simple one in fact. Lowe was pissed off at how the media made it into something it wasn't.

Brink of rebuilding? R i g h t. Lowe is building the Oilers for a post-CBA run.

Isbister is a fourth line plugger or a decent second banger? Funny how he's been on the first line with Smyth and Oates recently and is playing better than ever. Reasoner was one of the reasons the Oilers were able to move Marchant up to the first line last year when Comrie was injured. Marty is far more than the "decent third liner" you label him as. He's a good checking centre (RPM line has done a fine job since it was put together), can play on the powerplay, and is one of the team's best penalty killers.

And you're wrong about the players Lowe got in the Weight and Comrie trades.

Weight = Reasoner, Stoll, Deslauriers, and Horacek
Comrie = Woywitka, Oates (money was available because Comrie wouldn't sign), a 1st-round draft pick this year, and a 3rd-rounder next year

I guess that's not as good of a return as what the former GM in your city got for Savard.
Keep believing. Hope will help you down the stretch.
Technically, Lowe got a grab bag with those players - you're listing his draft picks, which are not guarnteed bluechippers. Lowe also questioned Comrie BIG TIME in the media following their loss in the playoffs. And the rumours that MC Bobble wanted out but good ol' Kev had to stick it to him for the better of what? His team. OK. Whatever.

Oates. He of what, 3 assists? OK.

Reasoner is not Marchant. He may be. But he is not. (Lowe also not ponying up enough dough to ensure Marchant didn't become a UFA is another gaffe I won't get into). Then you contradict yourself. Since when is a "decent 3rd liner" that far from a "good checking centre". Aren't we talking about the same thing.

And as for Izzy - he is inconsistent, but once again, with POTENTIAL. There's the key word. Not one guaranteed bluechip assest in the lot. that's the point. We saw a lot of the same kind of promises in Calgary. It hasn't been a lot of fun when guys like Aaron Gavey are being touted as potential building blocks for your team (circa 99-00).

Keep believing in the oil. But understand that Kev has already taken them into rebuilding mode. If they make the playoffs I eat my words, I just don't think they have the potential to do it given the lack of experience most of their horses have.
Oh, and weren't the Oil faithful screaming blue murder when Carter was dispatched for Dvorak? Thought I'd ask, but even though he's entered the black hole of MSG, I think the Oil got rammed.

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