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Still want Carter instead of AK?

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01-05-2004, 09:47 AM
  #1
jimnevets
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Still want Carter instead of AK?

choke

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01-05-2004, 09:51 AM
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I really like AK. If he put it all together in a couple of years, he will be better than Carter but AK is an higher risk because Carter, if he don't become an effective top two line player, could easily become an effective 3rd line player. Not the same case for AK...

But I prefer Kastsitsyn, since we have depht in our prospect...

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01-05-2004, 09:54 AM
  #3
Marc the Habs Fan
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Oh man..oh my god...another heartbreak.

I'm not gonna only blame Carter because his linemates were far worse..especially Ryan ''blows great chances like Dackell'' Getzlaf and Brent ''the goof troop and did nothing when it mattered'' Burns..not too mention Fleury who once again could not do what elite goalies find a way to do: get a lead and hold on to it in key games.


I also felt Canada had no legit PP QB and it hurt them big time when they were forced to use Phaneuf at the end on the point needing a goal. I can't believe we didn't find an offensive stud somewhere in the country.


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01-05-2004, 10:08 AM
  #4
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Man that was a frustrating game. We dominated through most of it and if some of those guys could have buried chances it would have been 6-1.

Carter was especially poor at hitting the net. I mean c'mon, it's a tie game and he's going for the perfect shot, just get the damn puck on net. Getzlaf s*** the bed too. All we needed was one of those chances to go in at the beginning of the 3rd and it would have been a walk.

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01-05-2004, 10:16 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan
Oh man..oh my god...another heartbeark.

I'm not gonna only blame Carter because his linemates were far worse..especially Ryan ''blows great chances like Dackell'' Getzlaf and Brent ''the goof troop and did nothing when it mattered'' Burns..not too mention Fleury who once again could not do what elite goalies find a way to do: get a lead and hold on to it in key games.


I also felt Canada had no legit PP QB and it hurt them big time when they were forced to use Phaneuf at the end on the point needing a goal. I can't believe we didn't find an offensive stud somewhere in the country.
I think they counted on Ian White filling that role but he wasn't able to bounce back from his injury soon enough. You'd think they could have had another PP quarterback to fill that role. Oh and the initial post on this thread is just stupid. Carter showed in this tournament that he will be a stud with the Flyers. He has shown a lot more at a higher level to this point that AK has (although I am still optimistic about him). This game was lost because of Fleury's sub-par performance and a team-wide let-down in the 3rd.

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01-05-2004, 10:36 AM
  #6
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If anyone "choked", it was Marc Andre Fleury. The second guessing over the lineup will continue for awhile, but give credit where credit is due, this was the best team the States have ever assembled.

Fleury not playing up to par led to the third period meltdown so to speak. From day one, he has never looked that comfortable, and his play snowballed where the team never could pick up from, whereby you also must question the coaching, captains, and frankly the team as a whole. Championship teams show resilience and fight adversity, it makes you wonder.

The US played very well, and take credit for the victory because no matter if they had the better players or not, how badly Canada had a meltdown, how badly Fleury played, the thing is, as a TEAM (which includes resilience, character, attitude) they were the better team on this day.

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01-05-2004, 10:53 AM
  #7
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I meant choke for the whole team. I like Carter, he played good but to be second guessing the picks the habs have made already because Carter has a few good games is stupid.

Canada did not hit in this game, I was sitting there in the first period expecting to see bodies flying like in the semi-final but it wasn't happening and when the Canadian players missed all those chanced at the end of the second period, I knew they were going to regret it.

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01-05-2004, 10:58 AM
  #8
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Jeff Carter is lazy, he never really impressed me during this tournament. When he scored two goals against Czech Republic, I knew some would come here and crying for him... He was scared of going to the net and when he had the puck and that a opponent player was going he was just shooting to get rid of the puck.

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01-05-2004, 01:08 PM
  #9
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Ak

He has shown a lot more at a higher level to this point that AK has (although I am still optimistic about him).


What did AK do at the WJC last year with a terrible team?? He got I believe 10pts in 5 games this year in the WJC which isn't shaby. I can't believe any one here can say Carter is better than AK when most of us haven't seen AK play. I've personally seen AK play in one game last year in the WJC and he was impressive.

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01-05-2004, 01:41 PM
  #10
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Fleury didn't choke! I can understand all of your frustration because, in fact, I'm frustrated too. But Marc-Andre didn't choke! He made great saves and the goals weren't even is fault! On Kesler's goal, Carter completly lost his coverage allowing Klesler to be alone with the goalie and still, MAF managed to do the initial save and the puck unfortunatly went up his shoulder after a crappy bound.

As for O'Sullivan's second, it was just bad luck. We do not have to find someone to blame, we have to accept the lost and congratulate the winners who do not let it go even when it seemed that the game was lost.

Two thumbs up for USA, they put a great team on the ice.

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01-05-2004, 01:43 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet
He has shown a lot more at a higher level to this point that AK has (although I am still optimistic about him).


What did AK do at the WJC last year with a terrible team?? He got I believe 10pts in 5 games this year in the WJC which isn't shaby. I can't believe any one here can say Carter is better than AK when most of us haven't seen AK play. I've personally seen AK play in one game last year in the WJC and he was impressive.
But conversely, no one can say AK is better than Carter for the very same reason.

Although we can't second guess the pick now, all we can do is believe what Savard and company thought was the best for the organization when it came to drafting him.

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01-05-2004, 02:31 PM
  #12
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Brent Seabrook let O'Sullivan pass him very easily and this is where the 4th USA goal was scored

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01-05-2004, 03:06 PM
  #13
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Blaming Fleury is just stupid... he saved a few sure goals with amazing saves, and 2 of those that went in were complete flukes... especially the last one.

This one is on the players, not the goalie. The USA used only 2-3 lines and 2-3 defensemen... and yet they were the ones who finishes stronger in the 3rd. There's no excuse for that.

I didn't like this team from the start, didn't care about them... I think because it was just so easy for them the whole way. Overcoming adversity is what makes this tourney worth playing & watching.

They never even needed to find a 2nd gear until the last period of the last game, and when they did they didn't know how.
Some have suggested that being a younger team had something to do with it, I don't buy it... all they needed to do was work harder than the US until the end, and they didn't do that.

The coach has to share in some of the blame for not being able to settle his troops down in the 3rd.

We've become the Buffalo Bills, Atlanta Braves... get to the big show then always fall short. I'd be more frustrated, but as I said I didn't care for this year's team... the previous 2 years I was much more hurt.

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01-05-2004, 03:12 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet
He has shown a lot more at a higher level to this point that AK has (although I am still optimistic about him).


What did AK do at the WJC last year with a terrible team?? He got I believe 10pts in 5 games this year in the WJC which isn't shaby. I can't believe any one here can say Carter is better than AK when most of us haven't seen AK play. I've personally seen AK play in one game last year in the WJC and he was impressive.
I didn't say Carter is better, simply that he has shown more to this point than AK has. Carter showed signs of being a dominant power forward, which is something the Habs sorely need. I trust Savard's scouting knowledge and staff and hope he made the right decision to go with AK. It is much too soon to tell.

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01-05-2004, 04:44 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan
Oh man..oh my god...another heartbreak.

I'm not gonna only blame Carter because his linemates were far worse..especially Ryan ''blows great chances like Dackell'' Getzlaf and Brent ''the goof troop and did nothing when it mattered'' Burns..not too mention Fleury who once again could not do what elite goalies find a way to do: get a lead and hold on to it in key games.


I also felt Canada had no legit PP QB and it hurt them big time when they were forced to use Phaneuf at the end on the point needing a goal. I can't believe we didn't find an offensive stud somewhere in the country.
Exactly...

I'm not sold on Fleury. In the big games he doesn't seem to have it. Star players tend to show up with stellar play in the big games. Fleury hasn't done that both times the gold was on the line. Still, he's still young.

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01-05-2004, 05:01 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by DanyHeatley#1Fan
Fleury didn't choke! I can understand all of your frustration because, in fact, I'm frustrated too. But Marc-Andre didn't choke! He made great saves and the goals weren't even is fault! On Kesler's goal, Carter completly lost his coverage allowing Klesler to be alone with the goalie and still, MAF managed to do the initial save and the puck unfortunatly went up his shoulder after a crappy bound.

As for O'Sullivan's second, it was just bad luck. We do not have to find someone to blame, we have to accept the lost and congratulate the winners who do not let it go even when it seemed that the game was lost.

Two thumbs up for USA, they put a great team on the ice.

Fleury choked, admit it. I don't freaking care about defensive coverage. A great goalie is counted on to hold the fort in times of trouble. A good goalie chokes a la Potvin/Ouellet, etc. This team was the strongest of all, more so than the US, who relied on one line.

Fleury had a pic nic for the tourney. When it counted, he failed to show up. His saves in the 2nd meant nothing after what he let in in the 3rd.

The US team was good. Not great. I've seen better russian teams at this competition. They did not win it; Canada errrr Fleury lost it.

This guy has lost confidence the last 2 weeks with the Pens. He needs to get his head and confidence and mechanics back in order with Cape Breton. Or he'll end up like Dan Blackburn.

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01-05-2004, 05:04 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK-47
Exactly...

I'm not sold on Fleury. In the big games he doesn't seem to have it. Star players tend to show up with stellar play in the big games. Fleury hasn't done that both times the gold was on the line. Still, he's still young.

Theo had the same strong, balanced team. He made the key saves in key situations. But critics said that he had it easy. IMO, Fleury has had the easiest route to the gold medal in all of the championship's history probably. He looked like Milnikov today. Or worse, Mishkin against...the USA in 80!

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01-05-2004, 05:20 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by deandebean
Fleury choked, admit it. I don't freaking care about defensive coverage. A great goalie is counted on to hold the fort in times of trouble.
Exactly.

Why is everyone defending Fleury? He scored the winning goal on himself in the 3rd period of a championship game, that's the definition of choking in my dictionary.

Fleury was so-so all tournament long. Josh Harding has been playing 10X better all season than Fleury did at this tourney.

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01-05-2004, 08:17 PM
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Frankly speaking. this is a Canadiens site, and without any Habs draft picks on the team, I wasn't especially interested this year.

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01-05-2004, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beckham23
Kastitsyn was only the third highest scorer on the Belarus team at the B pool.

I sure wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this guy to make the NHL. He isn't as good as Perezhogin at the same age.
no, he's way better ...
Kostitsyn will sign this summer (I hope) and prove us why all the scouts thought he was the best talent of the 2003 draft !

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01-05-2004, 10:14 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Corey
Frankly speaking. this is a Canadiens site, and without any Habs draft picks on the team, I wasn't especially interested this year.
West Coasters had no chance to watch this year. 4:30 in the morning to watch a game? Not likely...

I had very little interest this year either. Minus the Hab prospects, I just enjoy the tournament more when it is in North America.

Watching Canada play to a crowd of 50-70 people is disappointing.

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01-06-2004, 08:34 AM
  #22
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A great goalie can steal a game single handed, ask Roy, Hasek.
We didn't lose a 2-1 game. We led 3-1 and lose 4-3. Fleury is not great by all means.

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01-06-2004, 09:07 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by deandebean
Theo had the same strong, balanced team. He made the key saves in key situations. But critics said that he had it easy. IMO, Fleury has had the easiest route to the gold medal in all of the championship's history probably. He looked like Milnikov today. Or worse, Mishkin against...the USA in 80!

Like Théo or not. The guy has character and competes every game. That being said, i'm not sure Fleury has that same character. Sadly, that's one thing that you can't learn.

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01-06-2004, 09:27 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Dragon
A great goalie can steal a game single handed, ask Roy, Hasek.
We didn't lose a 2-1 game. We led 3-1 and lose 4-3. Fleury is not great by all means.
2 of the goals scored were complete flukes. I realize that a goalie should be prepared for anything but sometimes these situations get the best of you. The only soft goal he let in was the first. He was solid from that point on and made a few remarkable saves to keep them in the lead.

Fleury is a great goalie. Just like Roy and Hasek, he cannot be expected to win every major game in his life and to bring him down when he doesn't is not being realistic.

Just like Roy and Hasek, he will not win the Stanley Cup every year that he is in the NHL and he will not win every major tournament he enters.

Hockey is a TEAM game that requires an exceptional effort from all players (and a little luck) to win those big games.

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01-06-2004, 11:49 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by patp77
2 of the goals scored were complete flukes. I realize that a goalie should be prepared for anything but sometimes these situations get the best of you. The only soft goal he let in was the first. He was solid from that point on and made a few remarkable saves to keep them in the lead.

Fleury is a great goalie. Just like Roy and Hasek, he cannot be expected to win every major game in his life and to bring him down when he doesn't is not being realistic.

Just like Roy and Hasek, he will not win the Stanley Cup every year that he is in the NHL and he will not win every major tournament he enters.

Hockey is a TEAM game that requires an exceptional effort from all players (and a little luck) to win those big games.
Great goalies made great saves and even impossible saves to steal a game. Fleury simply not a great goalie. Is he an NHL goalie? I would say yes. Is he a good goalie.. maybe, but he'll never be great.
Everyone say how good Luongo is, but he choke at clunch time.
This is a finite line between good and great, Fleury simply do not belong to the great.

Geez.. if you are trying to compare Roy and Hasek with Fleury, you are insulting them.

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