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01-05-2004, 10:24 AM
  #1
Jacksonville
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Support the Jets!

If hockey in Calgary and Edmonton can survive, than why not Winnipeg? Teams such as Atlanta, Minnisota and Denver have had their teams come back to them after they relocated! So why not Winnipeg? Go to www.jetsowner.com to support the comback of the Jets and hockey in Winnipeg!

Let the Whiteout Begin! Again!

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01-05-2004, 10:35 AM
  #2
Jacksonville
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Go to this site and sign the online petition to support the Jets comeback. Tell as many people as possible about the site and post this address on as many boards you know to let people know Winnipeg wants a team!

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01-05-2004, 11:02 AM
  #3
tmg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksonville
If hockey in Calgary and Edmonton can survive, than why not Winnipeg?
Market size, local economy, corporate dollars...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksonville
Teams such as Atlanta, Minnisota and Denver have had their teams come back to them after they relocated! So why not Winnipeg?
Market size, local economy, corporate dollars...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksonville
Let the Whiteout Begin! Again!
Home teams wear darks now. :eek

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01-05-2004, 02:36 PM
  #4
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I want to see a team in Portland first. After that, I'm all for the Jets coming back.

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01-05-2004, 03:04 PM
  #5
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Barry Melrose and Ray Ferraro think it's way too cold for a team in Winnipeg


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01-05-2004, 04:04 PM
  #6
Big McLargehuge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmg
Home teams wear darks now. :eek
BLUE OUT!


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01-05-2004, 04:24 PM
  #7
Jacksonville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmg
Market size, local economy, corporate dollars...



Market size, local economy, corporate dollars...



Home teams wear darks now. :eek
If there are 100,000 die-hard, paying hockey fans in Winnipeg, a city of 700,000 and only 20,000 casual paying hockey fans in Atlanta, a city of 4,000,000, who has the larger market now? Per capita hockey fans is really the statistic the NHL!

If Calgary can succeed and Edmonton can do well, why not Winnipeg?

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01-05-2004, 04:28 PM
  #8
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But Atlanta, and Denver are much more affluent cities. They also play in state of the art arenas, whereas Winnipeg has no such facility.

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01-05-2004, 04:30 PM
  #9
Slats432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksonville
If there are 100,000 die-hard, paying hockey fans in Winnipeg, a city of 700,000 and only 20,000 casual paying hockey fans in Atlanta, a city of 4,000,000, who has the larger market now? Per capita hockey fans is really the statistic the NHL!

If Calgary can succeed and Edmonton can do well, why not Winnipeg?
Thanks for joining the boards. It may surprise you but there have been no less than 4 threads on this topic on the boards in the last two weeks.

Up at the top of the screen where it says "SEARCH" you can look for threads related to this overused, redundant, tired, snowball chance in Hell topic.

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01-05-2004, 04:32 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksonville
If there are 100,000 die-hard, paying hockey fans in Winnipeg, a city of 700,000 and only 20,000 casual paying hockey fans in Atlanta, a city of 4,000,000, who has the larger market now? Per capita hockey fans is really the statistic the NHL!
Because corporate support is a huge aspect of pro sports. Doesn't hurt that almost every Pro sport American team has their arena/stadium paid for by the government.

Quote:
If Calgary can succeed and Edmonton can do well, why not Winnipeg?
Are they really "succeeding"? Surviving by the skin of their teeth may be a more appropriate term.

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Old
01-05-2004, 04:39 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompenguin
BLUE OUT!


Blackout.

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01-05-2004, 04:44 PM
  #12
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A bit off topic, but Winnipeg Jets fans had the most legendary fans in pro-sports. For only a 15,000 seat arena, those fans were the loudest I've ever heard! I had the luck to catch an old Jets playoff game, and the whiteout and the noise would impress anyone!

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01-05-2004, 04:47 PM
  #13
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With a 15,000 capacity arena, the league won't allow a franchise to go there. It doesn't matter that most places don't sell out, there are capacity floors for new franchises in all sports--dating back to the first expansion from the Original Six--and the new arena in Winnipeg doesn't meet it. It'll do for the WHA or AHL, but not the NHL.

Portland and Houston are tops on the wait list.

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01-05-2004, 05:07 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
With a 15,000 capacity arena, the league won't allow a franchise to go there. It doesn't matter that most places don't sell out, there are capacity floors for new franchises in all sports--dating back to the first expansion from the Original Six--and the new arena in Winnipeg doesn't meet it. It'll do for the WHA or AHL, but not the NHL.

Portland and Houston are tops on the wait list.
You don't think that if either Quebec City or Winnipeg would build a new arena or re-vamp the ones they have now to 18 000+ capacity?

Portland and Houston...sure...whatever...Vancouver and Dallas are going to have something to say about that. Portland could possibly make sense...but does hockey belong in Texas? 2 teams there on top of it? Come on...

The NHL needs to get rid of 6 teams...the likes of Atlanta, Pittsburg, Carolina, one of the Florida teams, Nashville, and one of the California teams...and bring the talent pool back up in the NHL so that ALL teams can field 4 competitive lines and a top 6 that is a real top 6 and not just a bunch of pluggers that don't deserve to be playing top flight hockey.

That...and get he salaries under control of course!

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01-05-2004, 05:11 PM
  #15
Dr Love
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
You don't think that if either Quebec City or Winnipeg would build a new arena or re-vamp the ones they have now to 18 000+ capacity?
Winnipeg just built a new arena. Hell, it's not even done. So unless they can some how squeeze 3000 seats in it, there won't be a team.

Quote:
Portland and Houston...sure...whatever...Vancouver and Dallas are going to have something to say about that. Portland could possibly make sense...but does hockey belong in Texas? 2 teams there on top of it? Come on...
Because Houston is a huge market in the US. And Portland is a highly viable city for the NHL. Vancouver isn't close enough to be interefered with.

Quote:
The NHL needs to get rid of 6 teams...the likes of Atlanta, Pittsburg, Carolina, one of the Florida teams, Nashville, and one of the California teams...and bring the talent pool back up in the NHL so that ALL teams can field 4 competitive lines and a top 6 that is a real top 6 and not just a bunch of pluggers that don't deserve to be playing top flight hockey.

That...and get he salaries under control of course!
That's a conversation for a different thread.

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Old
01-05-2004, 06:00 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Thanks for joining the boards. It may surprise you but there have been no less than 4 threads on this topic on the boards in the last two weeks.

Up at the top of the screen where it says "SEARCH" you can look for threads related to this overused, redundant, tired, snowball chance in Hell topic.
Actually, this is the second one he started, so I'm sure he's aware it's already been tackled.....guess he just decided to make a new one for the hell of it....I wonder if he's tackled a new approach at getting a team, or is still hoping they can try to capitalize on another teams woes....

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Old
01-05-2004, 06:14 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksonville
If hockey in Calgary and Edmonton can survive, than why not Winnipeg? Teams such as Atlanta, Minnisota and Denver have had their teams come back to them after they relocated! So why not Winnipeg? Go to www.jetsowner.com to support the comback of the Jets and hockey in Winnipeg!
Yes! A fine idea! And we can get the Easter Bunny to play goalie, and sprinkle fairy dust on the ice between periods and la la la...

Seriously, do you realize what adding another Canadian franchise to a league that can barely support three of the current sixt teams nord of the border is financial suicide?

"Oh, but the fans all wear white and they're so loud it hurts my ears all the way over in Hamilton."

So what? Kids at an Avril Lavigne concert are pretty loud, too. Should we give her a franchise to ruin?

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Old
01-05-2004, 06:17 PM
  #18
tmg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksonville
If there are 100,000 die-hard, paying hockey fans in Winnipeg, a city of 700,000 and only 20,000 casual paying hockey fans in Atlanta, a city of 4,000,000, who has the larger market now?
The one with better advertising revenues and corporate sponsorships, better taxation/dollar/government support, a deeper pool of local wealth to sell the big-dollar seats, an owner willing to spend and not go into asset-selloff-mode every March...

I'm not denying the Winnipeg has more fans and more 'hockey loyalty' than Atlanta.

I'm denying that it makes any difference in the business that is the NHL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
Portland and Houston...sure...whatever...Vancouver and Dallas are going to have something to say about that. Portland could possibly make sense...but does hockey belong in Texas? 2 teams there on top of it? Come on...

The NHL needs to get rid of 6 teams...the likes of Atlanta, Pittsburg, Carolina, one of the Florida teams, Nashville, and one of the California teams...and bring the talent pool back up in the NHL so that ALL teams can field 4 competitive lines and a top 6 that is a real top 6 and not just a bunch of pluggers that don't deserve to be playing top flight hockey.

That...and get he salaries under control of course!
Can Vancouver and Dallas say anything? I was under the impression that the only NHL team with any say in 'territorial rights' was Buffalo. I don't think any of the other 29 teams could stop a team from moving in right next door if the rest of the league complied.


You want to get rid of 6 teams... which would entail getting rid of the ~150 worst NHL players and redistributing the rest... these 150 players would, of course, be (for the most part) the least-talented and, by extension, lowest-paid players in the NHL... thus raising the NHL's average player salary and the average team payroll... *and* you want salaries under control? Not to mention the amount of cash the NHL would have to put up to buy out these six franchises, many of whom paid 50 to 75 mil (or more, what was Hartford bought for?) in the past decade to get a team...

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01-05-2004, 06:39 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Thanks for joining the boards. It may surprise you but there have been no less than 4 threads on this topic on the boards in the last two weeks.

Up at the top of the screen where it says "SEARCH" you can look for threads related to this overused, redundant, tired, snowball chance in Hell topic.
And while he's at it, he might want to do a couple more searches and educate himself to the financial side of operating a franchise because that's obviously something he doesn't grasp very well, if at all.

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01-05-2004, 06:39 PM
  #20
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I can only dream.

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Old
01-05-2004, 06:46 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
Portland and Houston...sure...whatever...Vancouver and Dallas are going to have something to say about that. Portland could possibly make sense...but does hockey belong in Texas? 2 teams there on top of it? Come on...
Dallas is full to 99% capacity every game, that's more than about 25 other teams can say. So yes, hockey does belong in Texas. In Dallas at least.

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Old
01-05-2004, 07:08 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
Portland and Houston...sure...whatever...Vancouver and Dallas are going to have something to say about that. Portland could possibly make sense...but does hockey belong in Texas? 2 teams there on top of it? Come on...
Portland is well beyond Vancouver's veto rights. The Canucks would have no say.


As to the original question of why Edmonton and Calgary, and not Winnipeg?

- Calgary and Edmonton each have Metro populations larger than the entire province of Manitoba.
- They have much larger corporate sectors, with larger companies.
- Their arenas are much larger than even the new MTS Centre will be.
- Alberta's buisness and personal income taxes are much, much lower than Manitoba's.
- Alberta's economy is much stronger than Manitoba's.
- Albertans earn more money than Manitobans, on average.

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Old
01-05-2004, 07:27 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeeye
Portland is well beyond Vancouver's veto rights. The Canucks would have no say.


As to the original question of why Edmonton and Calgary, and not Winnipeg?

- Calgary and Edmonton each have Metro populations larger than the entire province of Manitoba.
- They have much larger corporate sectors, with larger companies.
- Their arenas are much larger than even the new MTS Centre will be.
- Alberta's buisness and personal income taxes are much, much lower than Manitoba's.
- Alberta's economy is much stronger than Manitoba's.
- Albertans earn more money than Manitobans, on average.
Stats to back this up please. Pretty sure you're off-base on the first point. The second is true for Calgary for sure...Edmonton has a larger corporage sector, but not by as much as you think, I suspect. Taxes are definitely lower in Alberta. I'd like to see proof of Alberta's economy being so much "stronger" than Manitoba's...as well as a definition of "strength of economy". The final could very-well be true, but I'd love to see the fact.


Not really doubting you, just would like to see the numbers, and I'm not going to do the research to support your own argument.

Dr.Love...the MTS seems small by NHL standards, but from what I understand the NHL has already said that it would be large enough for the league to accept. I don't have a link, but perhaps another Winnipegger or follower of the situation could chime in. Pretty sure thats what I heard.
Slats has made it perfectly clear that he is adamantly opposed to a the idea of a team in Winnipeg, so don't take his response personally, JVille.

As I said before, personally as a Winnipegger, I don't want the Penguins...I don't want the city's gain to be at the expense of Pens fans. And yes, there are massive obstacles to a team coming here. The CBA needs major reform for it to be a possibility for Winnipeg...even in Edmonton or Calgary. The corporate community wasn't active enough when the Jets were here the first time, which along with the outdated arena, was the reason for their departure. There would have to be MASSIVE corporate support, far larger than previous. Is it unlikely? Of course, in the present environment its pretty darned unlikely. Is it as impossible as some on here love to suggest? With a new (albeit slightly undersized) arena, rabid hockey fans, and NHL history, its certainly not impossible.

That said, yeah...four or five threads is far more than enough.

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Old
01-05-2004, 08:16 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
Dallas is full to 99% capacity every game, that's more than about 25 other teams can say. So yes, hockey does belong in Texas. In Dallas at least.

I'd like to see how many Texans go to hockey games when the Stars become a bad team.

Also this new arena in Winnipeg can be expanded to 18,000 seats if needed. Market size is the issue.

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01-05-2004, 11:25 PM
  #25
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I don't agree with the philosophy that putting an expansion NHL team in the same geographical area as an established team will somehow erode the established team's fanbase. Especially in a non-hockey city.

If anything, the addition of the Ducks to the Southern Cal hockey scene, has increased the interest in hockey here. And that has had a spillover effect upon the King's fanbase.

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