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All Malik. All The Time.

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Old
08-27-2007, 10:46 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
why has nobody mentioend that Malik has never looked like he has given a crap in his life?

that's a valid reason to hate a player, its why we hated nedved, its why we hated poti, its why we hated igor ulanov and kevin hatcher...etc
I don't see inside Malik's head. do you, ... I think there are far better placed people in Rangers locker room to see the difference between "giving" and "looking like giving" and that is fundamental!

The only knock against Malik is that when he makes a mistake it usually is a doozie!

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08-27-2007, 11:10 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Please do. Just do not list offensive Ds. It would be unfair comparison, since Malik is Stay-at -Home. I can think only of Scott Niedermeyer as being better. The rest are either equal or worse.
I can't "not list" offensive defensemen, because there are guys out there better defensively that are also better offensively. I'm not going to exclude them because they are better than Malik offensively as well.

Robyn Regher
Scott Niedermayer
Chris Pronger
Nick Lidstrom
Zdeno Chara
Dion Phaneuf
Toni Lydman
Ryan Whitney
Matty Ohlund
Brian Rafalski
Colin White
Joni Pitkanen
Sean O'Donnell
Kyle McLaren
Pavel Kubina

I mean that's off the top of my head. Sit me down and let me look at rosters, and I'll add plenty more to that list. I think all those guys are better defensively than Malik. Most are better offensively too.

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08-27-2007, 11:51 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
why has nobody mentioend that Malik has never looked like he has given a crap in his life?

that's a valid reason to hate a player, its why we hated nedved, its why we hated poti, its why we hated igor ulanov and kevin hatcher...etc
Totally disagree. I don't question Malik's effort, I just question the fact that he is prone to stupid plays occaisonally.

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08-27-2007, 11:57 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I can't "not list" offensive defensemen, because there are guys out there better defensively that are also better offensively. I'm not going to exclude them because they are better than Malik offensively as well.

Robyn Regher
Scott Niedermayer
Chris Pronger
Nick Lidstrom
Zdeno Chara
Dion Phaneuf
Toni Lydman
Ryan Whitney
The rule of value determination of the player is very simple. If can place one 15th in the league, that would make him average (30 team league).Matty Ohlund
Brian Rafalski
Colin White
Joni Pitkanen
Sean O'Donnell
Kyle McLaren
Pavel Kubina

I mean that's off the top of my head. Sit me down and let me look at rosters, and I'll add plenty more to that list. I think all those guys are better defensively than Malik. Most are better offensively too.
The rule of player value determination is pretty simple. 15th place in 30 team league would make one an average. That if you discount those Ds that play offensive assignment. If you take ALL defensemen into count (two per shift), then in order to prove Malik worse than average you have to come up with 30 guys that are better.
I can take Chara from your list. The rest are either in different category or no better.

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08-27-2007, 03:29 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
The rule of player value determination is pretty simple. 15th place in 30 team league would make one an average. That if you discount those Ds that play offensive assignment. If you take ALL defensemen into count (two per shift), then in order to prove Malik worse than average you have to come up with 30 guys that are better.
I can take Chara from your list. The rest are either in different category or no better.
Okay I never said Malik was below average. I've said MANY, MANY times that he's an average defenseman, who when on is above average and when not on is below average.

And the rest are in a different category or no better? Fine, in the category of defensemen with average defensive ability and absolutely no offensive ability, he's one of the better ones . Which players on my list do you see Malik as being "as good as?"

And do you seriously want me to come up with another 15 guys that I think are more valuable than Malik? I will, just to spite you, but I'd rather not .

Really though, people are criticizing me like I say Malik is worthless. I consider him to be an average defenseman that should help our team. Why is that an unfair assessment?

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08-27-2007, 03:38 PM
  #81
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he's got a long reach...my favorite pro malik argument ever

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Old
08-27-2007, 03:57 PM
  #82
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the hockey news had him low on the rangers depth chart behind

rosi
mara
tuts
then malik
kaspar
girardi
staal

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Old
08-27-2007, 04:01 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Okay I never said Malik was below average. I've said MANY, MANY times that he's an average defenseman, who when on is above average and when not on is below average.
How about this... Malik is an average #2 D. Would you agree?
IMO, he is in top 10 in the NHL at #2 spot..

NOTE: #2 doesn't mean second best D on the team. It means 1st line "stay at home" (aka "last man out", aka " defensive defenseman") D. For example Scott Neidermeyer is #2 D, although he was the best D on the Ducks.

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Old
08-27-2007, 04:15 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
How about this... Malik is an average #2 D. Would you agree?
IMO, he is in top 10 in the NHL at #2 spot..

NOTE: #2 doesn't mean second best D on the team. It means 1st line "stay at home" (aka "last man out", aka " defensive defenseman") D. For example Scott Neidermeyer is #2 D, although he was the best D on the Ducks.
Yeah, I guess you're right. If I named 30 players better than him, that would comprise 30 number-1 defensemen. Average for a number 2 would make him like the 45th best defenseman in the league. And honestly, I don't think I can find 45 guys better than him. Way to make me think rationally man...

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Old
08-27-2007, 06:13 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
How about this... Malik is an average #2 D. Would you agree?
IMO, he is in top 10 in the NHL at #2 spot..
That's crazy. You are telling me that on at least 20 teams in the NHL, Malik is a top-pairing defenseman? Come on. Malik was a good 2nd pairing defenseman two years ago. Last year, on many nights he played like someone who should be scratched. He is FAR from a top-pairing defenseman. His play last year dictated that he is the definition of mediocrity.

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Old
08-27-2007, 06:25 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
What I want you to say is that Renney is a fool for giving such big minutes to Malik because that is what you believe. You believe that your appraisal of Malik's abilities and shortcomings are more accurate than Renney's.
By looking at it that way, ANY time one disagrees with Renney's decisions means that they believe that their appraisal is more accurate than the coach of the team.

This board screamed for how many months that Cullen needs to be the 3rd line center and not the 2nd line center? It is no coincidence that Cullen started to be successfull once Renney made the change.
Quote:
You can't consistently be a great +/- performer as a below average defenseman no matter how little you value +/-.
Call it what you will, however that does not change what Malik is. Mediocre.
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I also believe that Renney is a very good coach and trust his choices even when I do disagree with him.
Wait a minute. If you disagree with him, it means that you belive his decision is not the correct one. If you did, then why would you disagree? And if you believe that his decision is not the correct one, then aren't you believing that your appraisal of the siduation is more accurate than his?
Quote:
We can talk about Betts in the Betts thread when it arrives.
Renney DID make the decision to play him as the 2nd line center, did he not?

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Old
08-28-2007, 03:43 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich View Post
the hockey news had him low on the rangers depth chart behind

rosi
mara
tuts
then malik
kaspar
girardi
staal
Tuytin did a rookie mistake in the clutch moment of the Sabres series.That basically was the decider of the series. Had Malik made that same mistake he shouldn't have bothered coming back to MSG. He would have been tarred and feathered. With Tuytin we excuse it, no biggie.

I see major double standards here. I think people don't like tall players(tall D maybe)
who appear slow, its a fallacy that we saw before with Kjell Samuellsson, Chara.
when Chara came into the league....I was arguing with this here board that we ought
to have traded for him with the Isles. It was not popular trade, because posters here thought he was deemed slow and soft....I remember that vividly.

IMO It doesnt' matter whether THN or we feel he is 2nd or 4th Dman on the depth chart. He is on the team because he is good value for his money in the eyes of the management. He plays well with our top rated d/man, and that's good enough for me.

I am not saying we couldn't do better than Malik, we most probably could but booing
Malik and being unfairly critical of his play is OTT.

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08-28-2007, 09:52 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
That's crazy. You are telling me that on at least 20 teams in the NHL, Malik is a top-pairing defenseman? Come on. Malik was a good 2nd pairing defenseman two years ago. Last year, on many nights he played like someone who should be scratched. He is FAR from a top-pairing defenseman. His play last year dictated that he is the definition of mediocrity.
You cannot go by one year only.
It may not speak for NHL, but I can only see Niedermeyer and Chara (not last year also) as being better then Marek at #2 spot. Even if you can name 8 guys that are better then him, he still be above average. Sure enough if you make your team out of Norris winners, he will not make even #6, let alone #4 you placing him at, but in reality the fantasy teams do not materialize.

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Old
08-28-2007, 10:03 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by london ranger View Post
I am not saying we couldn't do better than Malik, we most probably could
I don't think so. Who do you think was available that Slats missed? Plus after DRUMEZ signing we've got no cap room to get someone at 6 million or more to upgrade over Marek Malik.

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08-28-2007, 10:14 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I don't think so. Who do you think was available that Slats missed? Plus after DRUMEZ signing we've got no cap room to get someone at 6 million or more to upgrade over Marek Malik.
I am pro Malik in general. The management has decided that D was good enough and
needed no tinkering and assets were allocated towards front line centers. I am not in the loop to see how much other middle of the road D's are making in comparison with MM.

So returning to my previous argument. We could do better if we decided to allocate resources towards shoring up Defensive lines rather than the offense. We did not.

this is a vote of confidence for current D.....

Hence Malik is 2nd 3rd D on the depth chart and that's cool.

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Old
08-28-2007, 01:13 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by london ranger View Post
The management has decided that D was good enough and needed no tinkering and assets were allocated towards front line centers.
With Girardi surprise the need for UFA D was no longer valid. Not that we got Cup caliber defense with this kid, but we got promising defense. The question is do we need a Cup caliber? I don't think so. With Staal coming in soon the long term veteran could really become an impedance. It is more important to have young players able to compete for years to come, rather then get someone signed and push for the Cup with the end at Conference Final or earlier. If that what NYR was thinking, I am glad for them. It is a good sense both hockey and busyness.
With Drury and Gomez eager to put the puck in the net, there is no as much need for Ds huge offensive contribution while their possible errors should be alleviated by stellar goaltending that is reasonable to expect.
The other thing is, that whatever fans want or say, the actual task for upcoming season is not the Cup, but just the Division. The current defense with Malik at #2D is adequate for that goal.

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08-28-2007, 06:15 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
You cannot go by one year only.
Even if you can name 8 guys that are better then him, he still be above average.
I'm not. No tean that Malik leaves seems to lament his loss,
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It may not speak for NHL, but I can only see Niedermeyer and Chara (not last year also) as being better then Marek at #2 spot.
What does that mean? That out of all the defenseman in the league that qualify as top-pairing defensemen, you only see two people who are better at the role of a #2?
Really?
Quote:
Sure enough if you make your team out of Norris winners, he will not make even #6, let alone #4 you placing him at, but in reality the fantasy teams do not materialize.
Forget the Norris winners. Name me the 20 teams that would play Malik as a top-pairing defenseman if he was on their team this year.

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