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Old
01-11-2004, 04:24 PM
  #101
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Your argument is entirely made up of claims that are backed by nothing. So, you should have no problem understanding that until you show us some proof that the World's Strongest Man Competition and figure skating 'on cable' gets higher ratings, I'll consider it false.

Re: Bowling
Use some sense... bowling is on once a week, the same time every week and every bowling fan goes out of their way to watch. It's simply stupid to compare the two.

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01-11-2004, 04:24 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
ESPN, which is in nearly all households, shows at least one game a week. ABC does as well starting yesterday.



This has already been addressed on these boards countless times. The game was not shown because ESPN and ABC, who have the rights to the NHL, were contractually bound to broadcast college football. If you want to blame anyone, blame the league and the Oilers for scheduling the game when they did.
Again look at the ratings of these games... I would bet dollars to donuts that if ABC could get out of their NHL obligation they would...

And as far as the heritage classic, yes I have heard the excuses, but do you really believe that if Basketball had an oldtimers game with Magic, Kareen, MJ, Doc J or baseball with Willie Mays, Mcguire, Schmidt, Rose or football with Montana, Rice, Lott, Taylor etc... that TV contracts would come in the way???

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01-11-2004, 04:28 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by kickinghorse
And as far as the heritage classic, yes I have heard the excuses, but do you really believe that if Basketball had an oldtimers game with Magic, Kareen, MJ, Doc J or baseball with Willie Mays, Mcguire, Schmidt, Rose or football with Montana, Rice, Lott, Taylor etc... that TV contracts would come in the way???
Yes, they would have.

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Old
01-11-2004, 04:36 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickinghorse
And as far as the heritage classic, yes I have heard the excuses, but do you really believe that if Basketball had an oldtimers game with Magic, Kareen, MJ, Doc J or baseball with Willie Mays, Mcguire, Schmidt, Rose or football with Montana, Rice, Lott, Taylor etc... that TV contracts would come in the way???
The leagues would make sure to have the game when it wouldn't interfere with their broadcaster's legally bound contractual obligations. That's the key. If ABC or ESPN bumped college football for the Heratige Classic, the NCAA would have every right to persue legal action.

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Old
01-11-2004, 04:43 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
Your argument is entirely made up of claims that are backed by nothing. So, you should have no problem understanding that until you show us some proof that the World's Strongest Man Competition and figure skating 'on cable' gets higher ratings, I'll consider it false.

Re: Bowling
Use some sense... bowling is on once a week, the same time every week and every bowling fan goes out of their way to watch. It's simply stupid to compare the two.
well Ill start here, cause im too tired to look deeper but how about these ratings? http://www.zap2it.com/television/news/ratings/sports/

Golf, and not even a tourney 2 spots, Dog show 1 spot, that is only the top 15 but not one hockey game gets even a 0.3?

Kinda silly argument though... you are gonna believe what you do and nothing I can say will change that and I am gonna believe what I do and I cant see an argument that would change that....

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01-11-2004, 04:46 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickinghorse
well Ill start here, cause im too tired to look deeper but how about these ratings? http://www.zap2it.com/television/news/ratings/sports/

Golf, and not even a tourney 2 spots, Dog show 1 spot, that is only the top 15 but not one hockey game gets even a 0.3?

Kinda silly argument though... you are gonna believe what you do and nothing I can say will change that and I am gonna believe what I do and I cant see an argument that would change that....
That's because your example was non-cable networks only and there weren't any games on ABC during that time frame.

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01-11-2004, 04:46 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
The leagues would make sure to have the game when it wouldn't interfere with their broadcaster's legally bound contractual obligations. That's the key. If ABC or ESPN bumped college football for the Heratige Classic, the NCAA would have every right to persue legal action.

Perhaps, and I prolly am being bullheaded here but I just cannot believe that a way would not be worked to televise the event if it were a different sport... No facts to back up my feeling but I just dont believe a way would, and could not have been found...

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Old
01-11-2004, 05:04 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
That's because your example was non-cable networks only and there weren't any games on ABC during that time frame.


Think he would have been able to figure that out with a Ph.D. and all...

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01-11-2004, 05:39 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
That's because your example was non-cable networks only and there weren't any games on ABC during that time frame.

But this side argument is about major sports.... If a sport cannot even get on a major network except a few times a year I would think it is not a major sport.... I guess we will have to look at the ratings after this week when a major network did televise a game...

Anyhow that is all, this was fun; I believe what I do and you believe what you guys do...Im pretty open minded but I have yet to hear a argument that proves to me that hockey is a major sport in America...If NHL comes in with a 5 rating or even a 3 rating I will apologize but I dont see it...

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01-11-2004, 05:49 PM
  #110
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Seriously... you claim you know so much about hockey in the States and their ratings and you still bring up the possibility of the NHL getting a 5? There's not a chance in hell that'll happen and the chances they get a 3 are slim to none.

Spin the ratings all you want. It still won't change the fact that the NHL generates $2B in revenue.

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01-11-2004, 06:14 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
Seriously... you claim you know so much about hockey in the States and their ratings and you still bring up the possibility of the NHL getting a 5? There's not a chance in hell that'll happen and the chances they get a 3 are slim to none.

Spin the ratings all you want. It still won't change the fact that the NHL generates $2B in revenue.

I dont claim I "know" everything about hockey in USA, I am just saying what I see from people I know as well as what I see on American television/media...If you dont see how low on the radar hockey in is nearly every American city, well... And you are exactly right hockey will never get even a 3 rating...point made finally... A sport that cannot hope to get 3 million viewers out of a audience of 300 mil? Doesnt sound so major to me...


2B in revenue is a nice number but Im guessing sports like college/pro football, college/pro basketball , Nascar, baseball, golf etc generate that in a month...

hehe once again I am done... (I hope ) We dont have to agree, and we wont, but the discussion was fun...

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Old
01-11-2004, 06:27 PM
  #112
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Considering the NFL generates only $4.2B annually you'd be guessing wrong.

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Old
01-11-2004, 06:28 PM
  #113
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BTW... http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...20923_8893.htm

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Old
01-11-2004, 06:48 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
Dallas BY FAR had the most impressive fans out of those cities. They wasn't an empty seat in the house and this was when they were in a crappy arena.
It was not crappy! :mad:
The Stars also had a real team and GM back then. Not a bunch of slackers who only care about their paycheck.
It was a true fans' arena.
Not one bad seat in the arena and no yuppie (luxury) boxes.
It was always loud because it was always packed with real fans who could afford reasonable ticket prices and actually went to see a hockey game. Not people who would go only to show off that they can afford the executive terrace seats. Nose bleeds went for less than 30 bucks each. Now they start at about 100.

Reunion Arena was great! The ice may have been subpar, but it was a great arena. Have you ever seen the new arena truly sell out (a fan in every seat)? Not going to happen, especially with Armstrong.

I've been to the new American Airlines Center arena. It's like a concert hall what with all the lighting and glitz and glamour.
American Airlines motto is "the most legroom you can purchase" - too bad that only applies to the planes and not the arena. I hated every minute of being there. (I went to see Colorado play, not support Dallas as I still hate them) Most people I saw there were there to socialize and eat rather then to watch a hockey game.


Anyway, I've been to Houston and I don't think it's the best market for hockey. At least right now.

I say Hartford and Winnipeg.


Last edited by beeker16: 01-11-2004 at 06:51 PM.
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Old
01-11-2004, 08:27 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeker16
It was not crappy! :mad:
The Stars also had a real team and GM back then. Not a bunch of slackers who only care about their paycheck.
It was a true fans' arena.
Not one bad seat in the arena and no yuppie (luxury) boxes.
It was always loud because it was always packed with real fans who could afford reasonable ticket prices and actually went to see a hockey game. Not people who would go only to show off that they can afford the executive terrace seats. Nose bleeds went for less than 30 bucks each. Now they start at about 100.

Reunion Arena was great! The ice may have been subpar, but it was a great arena. Have you ever seen the new arena truly sell out (a fan in every seat)? Not going to happen, especially with Armstrong.

I've been to the new American Airlines Center arena. It's like a concert hall what with all the lighting and glitz and glamour.
American Airlines motto is "the most legroom you can purchase" - too bad that only applies to the planes and not the arena. I hated every minute of being there. (I went to see Colorado play, not support Dallas as I still hate them) Most people I saw there were there to socialize and eat rather then to watch a hockey game.


Anyway, I've been to Houston and I don't think it's the best market for hockey. At least right now.

I say Hartford and Winnipeg.
My parents live in Houston, and I have to agree. HUGE city, though it is, it is NOT the place for another team. I've been to some Aeros games where it looked like the arena wasn't even 1/3 full.
I'd have to pick Hartford (homer vote, since I grew up there) and Winnipeg as well. I think Winnipeg fans would be a lot like Minnesota's fans, in that they'd be so ecstatic to have a team back, they'd sell out every game for the first 5 or so years even if the team was way out of the playoffs.

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Old
01-12-2004, 12:34 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sushinsky4tsar
Kansas City: I'll give them this, no NBA team, so I think it makes a little more sense than Milwaukee. But, I would also cite their arena as the reason why it's not realistic. It's also a Chiefs town, I don't think it's large enough to develop that same kind of passion you see in St. Louis. Also it might be a little close to their fan base.

KC would work. Don't worry about a Blues fanbase wrecking that. I somewhat live in between both cities, but grew up in Stl. The coverage gets worse the farther west ya go. Memphis has more Blues fans that KC does or ever will. I am 194 miles from Stl, and watch everygame. And go to about 10 a year. To see the night after a game some small article about that game on page 6c of the sports, while some random junior varsity high school team beats another random junior varsity high shcool team in girls volleyball, ON THE FRONT PAGE of the sports section................. pisses me off like nothing ever will.

As far as my 2 cities...................

Winnipeg / Seattle or KC or I couldn't decide.

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01-12-2004, 03:37 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by vburnette
My parents live in Houston, and I have to agree. HUGE city, though it is, it is NOT the place for another team. I've been to some Aeros games where it looked like the arena wasn't even 1/3 full.
I'm not saying that Houston is the right city, but I wouldn't read too much into the Aero's attendance. It's not uncommon for a city that couldn't support a minor league team to support a major league team of the same sport.

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01-12-2004, 03:39 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by jeff962b
KC would work.
Kemper wouldn't, though, so they'd have to build an arena first. Then again, the state built both current stadiums in KC while screwing over the St. Louis teams, so it shouldn't be a problem getting one.

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01-12-2004, 04:56 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickinghorse
But this side argument is about major sports.... If a sport cannot even get on a major network except a few times a year I would think it is not a major sport.... I guess we will have to look at the ratings after this week when a major network did televise a game...
Well then the NBA isn't a major sport either, because most of the games are on cable [ESPN, TNT], with a few on ABC.

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Old
01-12-2004, 06:21 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go pierre hedin
Winnipeg and Quebec City.

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01-12-2004, 09:30 PM
  #121
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Doozy of a thread going on here!

Absolutely Winnipeg - it has all the right conditions, and I can see it being financially viable. To be honest, it would probably be cheaper for hockey fans from Toronto to fly in/out of Winnipeg for the game than to buy good tix to a Leafs game.

I'd like to say Portland but there's a glut on the west coast as is. Kansas City gets the nod. There is also a large population of Canucks working in the insurance field in Lawrence, Topeka and surrounding area.

I did find it interesting that the southern expansion teams that seem to have the strongst following are in cities with fairly large Canuck populations: Dallas, San Jose, Florida to some degree.

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Old
01-13-2004, 03:55 AM
  #122
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That's an interesting thought. Here's some food for thought... from 1998 to 2001, only Detroit got more Canadian-American immigrants than Seattle's 1,841.

Houston also got a decent number at 956.

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Old
01-14-2004, 04:08 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by degroat
I vaguely remember that story and I vaguely remember thinking that someone was on crack. I just couldn't see that happening with Orlando being so close to Tampa.
OK, I found the article, please note the date everyone, obviously Buffalo isn't getting moved now. Also note that they only looked at US cities:

Business First of Buffalo Feb. 2003

Some very odd selections on there. It seems this study only looked at the income of residents (didn't look at arenas or anything). They also make the assertion (very bogus IMO) that the tourists flowing through the Orlando area will go to hockey games when they're in town. Now, we do get a lot of people at Bolts games who are obviously on vacation or down for a visit, but Tampa doesn't exactly have the distractions that Orlando does, what else are people going to do when they're in St. Pete at Grandma's for Christmas?
Quote:
Perhaps a better idea would be Tampa marketing more to Orlando, maybe even working out some plan for season ticket holders where they'd do a bus to and from every game.
The Bolts don't get a whole lot of press in Orlando (lived in the area for almost 4 years) but they do get some coverage. I know Tampa does have some dedicated STHs who drive over 100 miles each way to go to games, BUT with the 7:00 start times during the week, it's probably gotten harder to do. I think most who drive long distances are from areas due south, it's (usually) a bit easier drive than coming over from Orlando. Interesting bus idea though.

Just wanted to throw that article into the mix.

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Old
01-14-2004, 04:32 PM
  #124
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That's an interesting article Sotnos.... but it's hard to put much into it when they admit themselves that Greensboro wouldn't support a team yet their findings suggest that it would.

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Old
01-14-2004, 09:22 PM
  #125
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since folks were mentioning jacksonville, and im assuming you mean florida and not the other.. 2 (I think theres 2 more) anyways.. assuming you mean jax, florida, the new stadium wouldnt hold enough people for most of the last 2 seasons of the tom coughlin era, folks wouldnt even goto jags games and a LOT of games were blacked out locally.. (i lived there then)
as far as i know, things have changed somewhat since then however.. but as a whole the city (1.5 mil) with a young ave age (i think my folks (they live there) said it was around 35 or something) could be potentially viable with a new stadium and stuff .. but i dont see it happening really

as for canadian teams, my heart says quebec city or winnipeg.. my boredom says GIVE ONE TO SASKATOON.. SCREW REGINA

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