HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Super Series - Claude Giroux

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-01-2007, 11:25 AM
  #26
Roger's Pancreas*
 
Roger's Pancreas*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Roger's Pancreas*
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
If Giroux scores 40 to 50 points his rookie season, then I'm content with that. I'm not expecting him to come in and score 100 in his rookie season. I just hope they don't put him on a checking line or in a checking role to start because that would be a waste of his talent. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think you turn dynamic offensive players into checkers.
Nah, Hitchcock and Carlyle do things right. They take the younger players who might struggle competing against grown men, and put them in diminished roles. It allows the rookie to play against weaker competition, and iron out the inconsistencies in their game until enough experience is earned.

Roger's Pancreas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2007, 11:36 AM
  #27
LEIFey
Context Matters!
 
LEIFey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 7,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LEIFey
i agree with Pancreas, the point of putting prospects on the lower lines is to reduce the stress of playing against the opposition's top players. they get less ice-time but it will probably help their mental development.

LEIFey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2007, 12:06 PM
  #28
Shaun_W_W
Registered User
 
Shaun_W_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 500
holy **** you guys need to see that Giroux assist in game 4. He falls down and the Russian guy skates right for him he does this spin back pass on his ass to someone who puts it right out to Traverse and he scores cause all the Russians were out of position cause they moved in on Giroux

Shaun_W_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2007, 12:37 PM
  #29
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
Nah, Hitchcock and Carlyle do things right. They take the younger players who might struggle competing against grown men, and put them in diminished roles. It allows the rookie to play against weaker competition, and iron out the inconsistencies in their game until enough experience is earned.
See, here's my thinking with Giroux. He's going to be an excellent player. He's got a gift that not many people have in terms of offensive production. To play him on a checking line or with checkers does his development no good because let's face it, he's not going to get an opportunity to use his talent if he's stuck back checking all the time.

I'd rather him go to the AHL for a season or two, tear it up down there and just dominate, then come up to the NHL in a top two line role. To me, that would be the ideal thing because then we aren't worrying about whether or not he can play against men because he's already done that and we know that he'd be developed offensively on the pro side of the game.

While I'm a fan of Carlyle, I'm no fan of Hitchcock because he's notoriously rough on young players and has broken the confidence of many young players. Carlyle on the other hand has had no problems in developing young talent and to me, that speaks in volumes about their approach with youngsters.

I guess to each their own though when it comes to coaching styles. One of the things that I really like about Carlyle is that his system doesn't damper offensive production. After all, Teemu had 97 points and showed he could still play. Take a look at the production of guys like Roenick, Forsberg, Amonte, etc....who all played for Hitchcock and their numbers got progressively worse.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2007, 02:04 PM
  #30
Roger's Pancreas*
 
Roger's Pancreas*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Roger's Pancreas*
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
See, here's my thinking with Giroux. He's going to be an excellent player. He's got a gift that not many people have in terms of offensive production. To play him on a checking line or with checkers does his development no good because let's face it, he's not going to get an opportunity to use his talent if he's stuck back checking all the time.
I'm not that sharp this early in the morning so bear with me. Over the next couple of years, the Philadelphia Flyers aren't going to have a traditional "checking line". Instead of players like Ethan Moreau or Sami Kapanen, Claude Giroux will be playing with Scottie Upshall, Mike Richards, Ben Eager, and other young guys who have the ability to put the puck in the net. It's hardly a detrimental situation. I'd also like to point out that, without Gagne's two-way ability, the Flyers could not afford this luxury.

In terms of TOI, I expect Giroux to take a couple shifts on the PK. He has a gift (two-way ability), and it should be nurtured so that the Philadelphia Flyers get the best player they can out of their pick. There's nothing wrong with that. But I also expect Stevens to give Giroux an opportunity to produce every single game by giving him a couple shifts on the PP with respectable linemates.

Quote:
I'd rather him go to the AHL for a season or two, tear it up down there and just dominate, then come up to the NHL in a top two line role. To me, that would be the ideal thing because then we aren't worrying about whether or not he can play against men because he's already done that and we know that he'd be developed offensively on the pro side of the game.
A while back, Luce explicitly stated that he thinks every prospect should spend a full season in the AHL before earning a spot in the NHL; I whole heartedly agree. But that's not to say that Giroux should be handed a top six role if he tears up the AHL. There is still an adjustment period most prospects need to go through before they can become fully acclimated with the speed and strength of the NHL. Case in point: Jeff Carter.
Quote:
While I'm a fan of Carlyle, I'm no fan of Hitchcock because he's notoriously rough on young players and has broken the confidence of many young players. Carlyle on the other hand has had no problems in developing young talent and to me, that speaks in volumes about their approach with youngsters.
Same old rhetoric.
Quote:
I guess to each their own though when it comes to coaching styles. One of the things that I really like about Carlyle is that his system doesn't damper offensive production. After all, Teemu had 97 points and showed he could still play. Take a look at the production of guys like Roenick, Forsberg, Amonte, etc....who all played for Hitchcock and their numbers got progressively worse.
The resurgence of Selanne had more to do with his dedication to the game and timing than it did with Carlyle. He had that knee surgery in 2004, spent the entire lockout rehabbing it, and came back a whole new man. He didn't miss a beat. Forsberg didn't have that luxury. He worked out like usual during the lockout, but spent the entire following summer in a wheel chair because of that borderline traumatic foot surgery. He didn't have enough time to properly rehab the affected area, and as a result would spend the entire next year battling nagging injuries. Roenick and Amonte are just cooked. They couldn't get anything going after they left Philadelphia; frankly, I'm surprised Hitchcock got the kind of production he did out of those two. The same goes for LeClair.

The decreasing production of the veterans has less to do with Hitchcock and more to do with their injury histories finally coming back to haunt them, which is why Recchi and Brind'amour can still be counted on for some offense.

Roger's Pancreas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2007, 02:43 PM
  #31
Norm MacDonald
Registered User
 
Norm MacDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,327
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
That looks pretty legit to me. He only weighs like 20 pounts, so if everyone on one side of the rink exhaled at him together he'd probably fall.
I agree... he was whacked in the shin and tried to finish the play. I don't see an embellishment at all.

Norm MacDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2007, 06:44 PM
  #32
Dig Out Your Soul
Ex Storm...
 
Dig Out Your Soul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,075
vCash: 500
That pass he made this morning was ridiculous.

Dig Out Your Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2007, 02:00 AM
  #33
daynus
Registered User
 
daynus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Good Ole Saskatchewan
Posts: 1,925
vCash: 500
things sound very good on the giroux front. i still think, the kid is a keeper, and those of you that think we should/will trade him, are going to be making a huge mistake. he will be a great pro. he reminds me alot of gagne at the same age. nice skill level, good skater, not a power forward by any means, but a guy that gets his nose dirty.

daynus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2007, 12:30 PM
  #34
Bob Clarke Fan Club
Registered User
 
Bob Clarke Fan Club's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,073
vCash: 500
What Impresses me about Giroux.....

Is the offensive awareness. I'll also join the group that is higher on Turris than JVR. Hope we're all wrong but what's to say they won't both be stars anyways?

Bob Clarke Fan Club is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2007, 12:39 PM
  #35
Roger's Pancreas*
 
Roger's Pancreas*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Roger's Pancreas*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Is the offensive awareness. I'll also join the group that is higher on Turris than JVR. Hope we're all wrong but what's to say they won't both be stars anyways?
That's my hope.

Roger's Pancreas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2007, 12:52 PM
  #36
LEIFey
Context Matters!
 
LEIFey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 7,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LEIFey
wow, ive been watching these high lights and i am really impressed with giroux. i really wish we'd gone for turris, he looks more and more like the real deal.

LEIFey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2007, 01:14 PM
  #37
mercury
Registered User
 
mercury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Philly/SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 11,110
vCash: 500
It's always impressive to see a wing who can skate, pass, and shoot very well.

mercury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2007, 11:22 PM
  #38
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by runkletm View Post
Thanks inferno, I have been pleased with what I have seen of him. Today he is having another good game so far. I've been pleased with how well he plays defense since most of what I have heard about him is about his offensive upside. But he has a nice all around game going for him. I am excited to see how much better he can get before he makes the Flyers next year (I think he is a bit of a long shot for this year).

(glad to see, for your sake, that Anisimov is back and playing today for Russia, no one wants to see any of their prospects hurt in this tournament)
i think thats what surprised me the most about giroux. hes REALLY well rounded. i think he could play on the 4th line of the flyers right now. but would be better served with some more time in the minors. hes got a very solid future ahead of him. he reminds me a little bit of cam neely light. not sure thats the best comparison, but thats kinda who i see in him. i really really really like the player. a lot.

as for anisimov, hes got a torn ligament in his knee (supposedly) but is gutting it out on pain killers. i think hes an idiot. he should shelf himself and try to heal before rangers camp. hes got an outside (far outside imho) shot at making the club, and he should give himself the best chance to do it. hes one of my favorite rangers prospects, so i really am annoyed that he would put this meaningless exhibition tournament ahead of his nhl career.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2007, 11:33 PM
  #39
Roger's Pancreas*
 
Roger's Pancreas*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Roger's Pancreas*
Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
as for anisimov, hes got a torn ligament in his knee (supposedly) but is gutting it out on pain killers. i think hes an idiot. he should shelf himself and try to heal before rangers camp. hes got an outside (far outside imho) shot at making the club, and he should give himself the best chance to do it. hes one of my favorite rangers prospects, so i really am annoyed that he would put this meaningless exhibition tournament ahead of his nhl career.
I definitely agree with you there. It's one thing to sacrifice for Olympic Gold or the Stanley Cup, but there's not much glory to be had in an exhibition game between kids (which is all this is).

Roger's Pancreas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2007, 05:55 PM
  #40
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
If Giroux scores 40 to 50 points his rookie season, then I'm content with that. I'm not expecting him to come in and score 100 in his rookie season. I just hope they don't put him on a checking line or in a checking role to start because that would be a waste of his talent. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think you turn dynamic offensive players into checkers.
It worked for Simon Gagne

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2007, 08:02 PM
  #41
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kz View Post
It worked for Simon Gagne
You know what though, Gagne has kind of disappointed me (as I duck my head and run for cover). I'll explain why too.

Gagne has always had all the tools to be that franchise-type player that could score 100 points and carry a team on his back. Yet, every time I watch Simon play, and as great as he is (I won't deny that), he always seems to leave me wanting more. He's like a poor man's version of Patrik Elias. He's too selfless. I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more selfishness out of Gagne. He's been so quick to do what ever this franchise has asked of him, that it's somewhat hurt his own development.

The one thing that I really hope Giroux does is become a bit more of a selfish player than Gagne is. And by selfish, I don't mean be a puck hog or anything like that. But I wouldn't have any qualms if Giroux told the organization that he'll never be a defensive stalwart or he'll never be a banger, but he will put up big numbers and deliver in clutch situations. I could live with that.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2007, 09:14 PM
  #42
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
You know what though, Gagne has kind of disappointed me (as I duck my head and run for cover). I'll explain why too.

Gagne has always had all the tools to be that franchise-type player that could score 100 points and carry a team on his back. Yet, every time I watch Simon play, and as great as he is (I won't deny that), he always seems to leave me wanting more. He's like a poor man's version of Patrik Elias. He's too selfless. I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more selfishness out of Gagne. He's been so quick to do what ever this franchise has asked of him, that it's somewhat hurt his own development.

The one thing that I really hope Giroux does is become a bit more of a selfish player than Gagne is. And by selfish, I don't mean be a puck hog or anything like that. But I wouldn't have any qualms if Giroux told the organization that he'll never be a defensive stalwart or he'll never be a banger, but he will put up big numbers and deliver in clutch situations. I could live with that.
Without even addressing your thoughts on Gagne, i'll just say that if Giroux turns into an 80+ point player that can play against the elite of the NHL with success in the defensive end, then he has without a doubt develop fantastically.

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2007, 09:18 PM
  #43
mercury
Registered User
 
mercury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Philly/SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 11,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kz View Post
Without even addressing your thoughts on Gagne, i'll just say that if Giroux turns into an 80+ point player that can play against the elite of the NHL with success in the defensive end, then he has without a doubt develop fantastically.
Giroux sounds like a better playmaker than Gagne at that age, as well. Maybe selfish is not what we really want? I am not saying he should try to be Hemsky-lite, but there is nothing wrong with excellent passing from a top 6 wing. I'd love to see him round out all facets of his game, just like Gagne did. Fortunately, we look to have enough quality linemates for him in the near future. Polishing his overall game and getting NHL-level strength look to be the main projects for him. I am excited.

mercury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2007, 09:47 PM
  #44
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
You know what though, Gagne has kind of disappointed me (as I duck my head and run for cover). I'll explain why too.

Gagne has always had all the tools to be that franchise-type player that could score 100 points and carry a team on his back. Yet, every time I watch Simon play, and as great as he is (I won't deny that), he always seems to leave me wanting more. He's like a poor man's version of Patrik Elias. He's too selfless. I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more selfishness out of Gagne. He's been so quick to do what ever this franchise has asked of him, that it's somewhat hurt his own development.

The one thing that I really hope Giroux does is become a bit more of a selfish player than Gagne is. And by selfish, I don't mean be a puck hog or anything like that. But I wouldn't have any qualms if Giroux told the organization that he'll never be a defensive stalwart or he'll never be a banger, but he will put up big numbers and deliver in clutch situations. I could live with that.

Gagne wasn't graded as a 'scorer' coming into the league. yes, he put up points in the Q, but he wasn't expected to develop into the top-line scorer that he's become.

he's also a sniper, and most snipers hang more than they push they play... he doesn't have the stick-skills to go through guys... needs to find his spots and space to get his shot off.

i would also note, it's difficult to be a BETTER hockey player than Gagne has become... so i'd say his development has been pretty damn good.

i would also note, that you're once again giving our players FAR too much credit for potential production. in the past two years the following players have registered 100 pts: Crosby (2), Thornton (2), Heatley (2), Jagr, Ovechkin, Alfredsson, Staal, Lecavalier, St. Louis, Hossa, and Sakic. Gagne isn't nearly the offensive player, and never will be, that those players are... if he gets 100 pts, it would be by far and away a career year for him and would rely heavily on players around him stepping up.

just further pointing out the fact that his development has been perfectly fine.


Last edited by Jester: 09-03-2007 at 09:56 PM.
Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2007, 10:33 PM
  #45
CantSeeColors
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Seychelles
Posts: 5,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Gagne wasn't graded as a 'scorer' coming into the league. yes, he put up points in the Q, but he wasn't expected to develop into the top-line scorer that he's become.

he's also a sniper, and most snipers hang more than they push they play... he doesn't have the stick-skills to go through guys... needs to find his spots and space to get his shot off.

i would also note, it's difficult to be a BETTER hockey player than Gagne has become... so i'd say his development has been pretty damn good.

i would also note, that you're once again giving our players FAR too much credit for potential production. in the past two years the following players have registered 100 pts: Crosby (2), Thornton (2), Heatley (2), Jagr, Ovechkin, Alfredsson, Staal, Lecavalier, St. Louis, Hossa, and Sakic. Gagne isn't nearly the offensive player, and never will be, that those players are... if he gets 100 pts, it would be by far and away a career year for him and would rely heavily on players around him stepping up.

just further pointing out the fact that his development has been perfectly fine.
Enter Danny Briere, stage left.

CantSeeColors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2007, 11:00 PM
  #46
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Enter Danny Briere, stage left.
he's been playing with Forsberg.

Briere ain't getting him to 100 pts. however, i'd expect an 80ish point season from Gagne next year.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2007, 11:30 PM
  #47
flyersfan97
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,408
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
he's been playing with Forsberg.

Briere ain't getting him to 100 pts. however, i'd expect an 80ish point season from Gagne next year.
Sounds familiar. Let's hope it happens.

flyersfan97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2007, 11:41 PM
  #48
ELab2
Registered User
 
ELab2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atlantic City
Country: United States
Posts: 5,348
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kz View Post
It worked for Simon Gagne
I was just going to post that. And I think it will work better with Giroux. Gagne was playing, pretty much, on a real checking line when he first got here. If you put Giroux with Richards and Upshall or someone like that and that line is going to put up points and be defensively responsible. That will allow Giroux to work on his defensive game a lot while at the same time not putting a damper on his offensive learning and ability.

ELab2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2007, 01:08 AM
  #49
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan97 View Post
Sounds familiar. Let's hope it happens.
lets not complain too much about 68 and a +2 given the slop we had last year.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2007, 01:59 PM
  #50
CantSeeColors
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Seychelles
Posts: 5,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
lets not complain too much about 68 and a +2 given the slop we had last year.
You don't think adding Briere is going to mean more than a 12 point boost from Gagne? I wouldn't hesitate to put them both around 90.

CantSeeColors is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.