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Super Series - Claude Giroux

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Old
09-06-2007, 02:41 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
I'm American and I don't get that. Could some explain to me why most Americans can't pronounce "foreign" names correctly? I don't expect us all to get the accents right but for christ sakes make some kind of effort.
Because we read it and don't know how it's truly pronounced, so we try our best going by our own conceptions of pronounciation. It's also more natural that way, and thus more comfortable to us.

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09-06-2007, 02:51 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
In proper French, it's like kangaroo. It seems like most English speaking North Americans pronounce it like "oh my god" though, at least the ones I've heard.
It's definitely like kangaroo. Anyone that says it differently just doesn't have a clue.

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09-06-2007, 02:52 PM
  #103
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This organization is better off if all of those guys turn into the players they can become... while Giroux also becomes the player. You like to complain about how young guys don't get a chance... but right here you're talking about NOT GIVING a chance to a bunch of young players because you like the shiney new corvette in the garage over.
Hey, I never said that Giroux has to take away ice time from Hartnell, Lupul or Upshall. The players that Kaktus mentioned were Upshall, Knuble and Krapanen. I could see Giroux very easily outperforming those guys. And the problem with that is what? If he outperforms them, then yes, he deserves a spot on the team, no doubt about it.

As for the shiny corvette in the garage, I'll take a corvette over a mustang any day of the week. If you really want to make things interesting, let's take a look at the potential lineup we could have if Giroux makes the big club:

Gagne/Briere/Lupul
Hartnell/Carter/Giroux
Upshall/Richards/Knuble
Eager/Umberger/Krapanen

That's a pretty good group of forwards right there. Lupul gets the benefit of playing with Gagne and Briere, Giroux is the playmaker on the Carter/Hartnell line, Richards gets decent linemates for once in his career and we have sound fourth line. To me, what's not to like about that? Now, with that being said and with Don Luce in the fold, I'm sure Giroux will spend at least one season in the AHL. I'm fine with that as well. I'm sure that the spot on the 2nd line ends up going to either Ruzicka or someone else. Either way, we're in a good spot.

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09-06-2007, 03:03 PM
  #104
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Yeah, like in kanga-ROO.

Interestingly enough, nobody pronounces Gagne's first name appropriately. Si (short i) -moan is completely wrong. See-moan would be the correct pronunciation for the female version of the name - Simone, but not Simon. The correct pronunciation is a little tricky but basically kind of like See-mohn but barely pronouncing the n.

Also, it isn't just Americans. Everybody the world over mispronounces foreign names. That's going to happen when many languages have completely different sets of phonemes - ie. sounds. A french person murders the th diagraph. It doesn't exist in french. Peking and Bejing are two phonological translations of the same Chinese name for the city, not two completely different names. Sounds can be difficult to translate.

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09-06-2007, 03:09 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Gotta agree here. Giroux is actually poised to step in right when Knuble's contract expires in two years.
Just for the sake of discussion...

Knuble is currently the first line RW. At the conclusion of his contract, Hartnell will have enough experience to fill that hole, leaving the second line LW spot open. I think VanRiemsdyk is the top candidate for that role given his raw potential and contract. On the other side, Lupul's contract will be expiring at the same time, creating a vacancy on the second line should Holmgren decide to take that money and walk. Giroux will have already accrued a season's worth of experience playing on the top line of the Phantoms so he, to me, would be the ideal replacement. The only other rookie that needs to be integrated into the roster would be Downie, and I think he'll be ready for Kapanen's spot when the time comes. Oh, and then there's Parent who will take a spot on the bottom pairing away from Hatcher/Gauthier. For those keeping track, that's a lot of cash coming off the books in two years.

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09-06-2007, 03:13 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
Just for the sake of discussion...

Knuble is currently the first line RW. At the conclusion of his contract, Hartnell will have enough experience to fill that hole, leaving the second line LW spot open. I think VanRiemsdyk is the top candidate for that role given his raw potential and contract. On the other side, Lupul's contract will be expiring at the same time, creating a vacancy on the second line should Holmgren decide to take that money and walk. Giroux will have already accrued a season's worth of experience playing on the top line of the Phantoms so he, to me, would be the ideal replacement. The only other rookie that needs to be integrated into the roster would be Downie, and I think he'll be ready for Kapanen's spot when the time comes. Oh, and then there's Parent who will take a spot on the bottom pairing away from Hatcher/Gauthier. For those keeping track, that's a lot of cash coming off the books in two years.
12.4 million roughly coming off the books. HUGE.

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09-06-2007, 03:29 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
12.4 million roughly coming off the books. HUGE.
12.4? Try 19 in contracts expiring that year alone, nevermind the dead space that will be freed up by then.

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09-06-2007, 05:02 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Hey, I never said that Giroux has to take away ice time from Hartnell, Lupul or Upshall. The players that Kaktus mentioned were Upshall, Knuble and Krapanen. I could see Giroux very easily outperforming those guys. And the problem with that is what? If he outperforms them, then yes, he deserves a spot on the team, no doubt about it.

As for the shiny corvette in the garage, I'll take a corvette over a mustang any day of the week. If you really want to make things interesting, let's take a look at the potential lineup we could have if Giroux makes the big club:

Gagne/Briere/Lupul
Hartnell/Carter/Giroux
Upshall/Richards/Knuble
Eager/Umberger/Krapanen

That's a pretty good group of forwards right there. Lupul gets the benefit of playing with Gagne and Briere, Giroux is the playmaker on the Carter/Hartnell line, Richards gets decent linemates for once in his career and we have sound fourth line. To me, what's not to like about that? Now, with that being said and with Don Luce in the fold, I'm sure Giroux will spend at least one season in the AHL. I'm fine with that as well. I'm sure that the spot on the 2nd line ends up going to either Ruzicka or someone else. Either way, we're in a good spot.
Giroux will not outperform Kapanen as a PKer, intangibles of leadership that Kapanen brings to the club (he's one of the few vocal players this team has out in front of the media). Remember, we're trying to construct a team here, not an All-Star lineup. Kapanen remains a very effective, though low-scoring, third line wing. I'm all for having Knuble on Richards win, but I'd like to have Kapanen on that line as the lockdown winger to help on the defensive responsibilities that Richards will have this year.

It's very easy to sit here right now and say, hell yeah, lets have the undersized kid in the lineup... however, once he is here, it's not so simple when he gets tired. This isn't like Staal in Pitt where you had a man child who could clearly handle the league physically.

What happens when Forsberg becomes a potential option in December and January to fill out the roster for the spring?

Giroux would literally have to force me to want to take him this year, he'd have to outperform all of those guys... and non-trivially, as he will almost definitely slow down in the sprin - as is the case with most rookies.

There's nothing wrong with patience... you love to talk about Spezza... that was a TON of patience on the Senator's part and it probably helped to develop him into such a creative offensive player. The major benefit of taking your time with these guys is that they can go and simply tool on the competition for a year... which may seem like a bad idea, but when everything is easy it allows them to develop more creative games (if it's there to develop) as everything is happening with ease around them.

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09-06-2007, 05:07 PM
  #109
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http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=9264

Quote:
Translation: Downie or Giroux must make an enormous impact in camp and unseat a few regulars which is unlikely, given all the new faces the Flyers have brought in.

Now, defenseman Ryan Parent, on the other hand … he could make the roster. Holmgren is eager to see if he can.

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09-06-2007, 05:43 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
I'm American and I don't get that. Could some explain to me why most Americans can't pronounce "foreign" names correctly? I don't expect us all to get the accents right but for christ sakes make some kind of effort.
It's not just Americans who pronounce names incorrectly, it's every language that pronounces other names incorrectly. I live in Guatemala and the people here have a horrid time pronouncing English. This is for two reasons; there is no strict law governing English spelling or pronunciation, and Spanish lacks several vowel sounds found in English. They can't tell the difference between 'hate' and 'hit'. Even Dora here (the kids show for those of you who don't have kids in the 2-7 year old range), when she is TEACHING English, pronounces it with a Spanish accent. What the heck? Americans have a difficult time pronouncing French because they spell things strangely to Americans (why have -ot, -eault, -ault, -aux, and -au endings all sound about the same?). All of this to say, don't beat yourself up on how Americans are bad at pronouncing other languages; listen to a frenchman speak English - the 'th' sound is a 'd' sound. Why? because they don't have the same 'th' sound that is found in Enlgish. It's not a deficiency, it's just how language and the human brain work.

Sorry, language stuff fascinates me.

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09-06-2007, 05:50 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post

The Flyers have to have a plan to bring players along slowly and stick to it - and that means ALL the kids have to do some time in the AHL. Downie this year, Giroux next.
I like this line of thinking, sort of like the Canadians used to do. With the Flyers newfound depth at wing, I am averse to rushing any of the kids. I think they would be better suited coming along slowly and hopefully learning the Flyers' systems from playing with the Phantoms.

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09-06-2007, 06:55 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Giroux will not outperform Kapanen as a PKer, intangibles of leadership that Kapanen brings to the club (he's one of the few vocal players this team has out in front of the media). Remember, we're trying to construct a team here, not an All-Star lineup. Kapanen remains a very effective, though low-scoring, third line wing. I'm all for having Knuble on Richards win, but I'd like to have Kapanen on that line as the lockdown winger to help on the defensive responsibilities that Richards will have this year.

It's very easy to sit here right now and say, hell yeah, lets have the undersized kid in the lineup... however, once he is here, it's not so simple when he gets tired. This isn't like Staal in Pitt where you had a man child who could clearly handle the league physically.

What happens when Forsberg becomes a potential option in December and January to fill out the roster for the spring?

Giroux would literally have to force me to want to take him this year, he'd have to outperform all of those guys... and non-trivially, as he will almost definitely slow down in the sprin - as is the case with most rookies.

There's nothing wrong with patience... you love to talk about Spezza... that was a TON of patience on the Senator's part and it probably helped to develop him into such a creative offensive player. The major benefit of taking your time with these guys is that they can go and simply tool on the competition for a year... which may seem like a bad idea, but when everything is easy it allows them to develop more creative games (if it's there to develop) as everything is happening with ease around them.
Spezza also benefited from the lockout because of all the NHL talent that was in the AHL, however yes that is a good example. I don't want to see Giroux get his 10 games, I just think given this club's need for chemistry bringing in a kid for 10 games is stupid. Take him or leave him.

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09-06-2007, 07:36 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Giroux will not outperform Kapanen as a PKer, intangibles of leadership that Kapanen brings to the club (he's one of the few vocal players this team has out in front of the media). Remember, we're trying to construct a team here, not an All-Star lineup. Kapanen remains a very effective, though low-scoring, third line wing. I'm all for having Knuble on Richards win, but I'd like to have Kapanen on that line as the lockdown winger to help on the defensive responsibilities that Richards will have this year.

It's very easy to sit here right now and say, hell yeah, lets have the undersized kid in the lineup... however, once he is here, it's not so simple when he gets tired. This isn't like Staal in Pitt where you had a man child who could clearly handle the league physically.

What happens when Forsberg becomes a potential option in December and January to fill out the roster for the spring?

Giroux would literally have to force me to want to take him this year, he'd have to outperform all of those guys... and non-trivially, as he will almost definitely slow down in the sprin - as is the case with most rookies.

There's nothing wrong with patience... you love to talk about Spezza... that was a TON of patience on the Senator's part and it probably helped to develop him into such a creative offensive player. The major benefit of taking your time with these guys is that they can go and simply tool on the competition for a year... which may seem like a bad idea, but when everything is easy it allows them to develop more creative games (if it's there to develop) as everything is happening with ease around them.
Just a quick note on Spezza. Jacques Martin nearly ruined Jason Spezza. It was John Paddock who should be given kudos for really working on Spezza because his confidence was nearly killed. Gee, yet another defensive minded coach who nearly ruined an offensively gifted hockey player. Sound like someone we know?

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09-06-2007, 07:40 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Just a quick note on Spezza. Jacques Martin nearly ruined Jason Spezza. It was John Paddock who should be given kudos for really working on Spezza because his confidence was nearly killed. Gee, yet another defensive minded coach who nearly ruined an offensively gifted hockey player. Sound like someone we know?
link?

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09-06-2007, 07:51 PM
  #115
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link?
For what? I lived in Ottawa during the Martin years and it was well known throughout Ottawa that Martin did not like Spezza at all. That's old news man, very old news. Go to the Ottawa board and ask anyone there if Martin liked Spezza and you'll see exactly what Ottawa fans think and know.

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09-06-2007, 08:15 PM
  #116
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For what? I lived in Ottawa during the Martin years and it was well known throughout Ottawa that Martin did not like Spezza at all. That's old news man, very old news. Go to the Ottawa board and ask anyone there if Martin liked Spezza and you'll see exactly what Ottawa fans think and know.
No thanks. The burden of proof is yours.

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09-06-2007, 09:09 PM
  #117
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Martin DEFINATELY didnt give Spezza a fair shot....to the point that Spezza was thrilled to see Martin leave. Id go as far as saying they hated each other.

This is all common knowledge in Ottawa, and I though it was elsewhere.

Despite shining when called up, Spezza never got to stay up. It was only when Murray became coach that Spezza was allowed to play his game.

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09-06-2007, 10:07 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Just a quick note on Spezza. Jacques Martin nearly ruined Jason Spezza. It was John Paddock who should be given kudos for really working on Spezza because his confidence was nearly killed. Gee, yet another defensive minded coach who nearly ruined an offensively gifted hockey player. Sound like someone we know?
i'm well aware of Martin's problems with Spezza.

however, it would be difficult to impossible to actually make a coherent argument that he 'nearly ruined' Spezza. Spezza may not have enjoyed his career path, but he's clearly a very good hockey player today.

Gagne is looking pretty ruined by the tenure of Hitchcock.

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09-06-2007, 10:17 PM
  #119
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i'm well aware of Martin's problems with Spezza.

however, it would be difficult to impossible to actually make a coherent argument that he 'nearly ruined' Spezza. Spezza may not have enjoyed his career path, but he's clearly a very good hockey player today.

Gagne is looking pretty ruined by the tenure of Hitchcock.
How about Justin Williams? Anyways, I've stated my piece about Hitchcock and Gagne. Before Hitchcock came on board, Gagne was on his way to becoming a high scoring winger who could play great d. Hitch did nothing to improve that. Hitch didn't know how to use Gagne. That's my own personal opinion. He left his best winger to play on the checking line. What more needs to be said about that. Hitch put his best offensive winger on the checking line and every body "raves" about how Hitch turned Gagne into this great two way player. I think everybody should be thanking Bill Barber for the great job he did with Gagne, not Hitch.

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09-06-2007, 10:20 PM
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How about Justin Williams? Anyways, I've stated my piece about Hitchcock and Gagne. Before Hitchcock came on board, Gagne was on his way to becoming a high scoring winger who could play great d. Hitch did nothing to improve that. Hitch didn't know how to use Gagne. That's my own personal opinion. He left his best winger to play on the checking line. What more needs to be said about that. Hitch put his best offensive winger on the checking line and every body "raves" about how Hitch turned Gagne into this great two way player. I think everybody should be thanking Bill Barber for the great job he did with Gagne, not Hitch.
The guy whose team metaphorically threw under the bus? Yea...I don't think I'll be doing that.

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09-06-2007, 10:33 PM
  #121
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I don't think that Giroux will make Flyers this year but watch out for Parent! I think he could be the next Vlasic. (I mean the year Vlasic had in SJ)

Parent is an excellent shutdown defenseman. I think he might make the team!!!!!

Timonen-Parent/Picard/Kukkonen
Gauthier-Smith
Hatcher-Coburn

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09-06-2007, 10:51 PM
  #122
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I don't think Parent beats out Kukkonen

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09-07-2007, 12:21 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
How about Justin Williams? Anyways, I've stated my piece about Hitchcock and Gagne. Before Hitchcock came on board, Gagne was on his way to becoming a high scoring winger who could play great d. Hitch did nothing to improve that. Hitch didn't know how to use Gagne. That's my own personal opinion. He left his best winger to play on the checking line. What more needs to be said about that. Hitch put his best offensive winger on the checking line and every body "raves" about how Hitch turned Gagne into this great two way player. I think everybody should be thanking Bill Barber for the great job he did with Gagne, not Hitch.
Gagne's problem when Hitch showed up was his PITIFUL shooting %... which, last I checked... the coach can't do a ton for.

you can have your opinion, but i'm curious how Hitch accounts for Gagne putting up a 7.8% and 11.4% in the two years Hitch was supposedly crapping on him. Gagne wasn't producing enough on his own merit, and others were... it was as simple as that.

Justin Williams was and is a young player... he was on a team that was actively competing for the Cup. you're going to have a tough time finding coaches and GMs that won't make those choices with young players.

Gagne is a more complete player today in all facets of the game... if you want to rag on Hitch, you also need to figure out how to account for the blossoming of Gagne over the last two years... your thesis pretty much falls apart at that point.

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09-07-2007, 12:22 AM
  #124
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I don't think Parent beats out Kukkonen
he doesn't have to... Gauthier and Jones are the two obvious weak links as far as movement. Hatcher would theoretically be so as well.

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09-07-2007, 01:21 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
How about Justin Williams? Anyways, I've stated my piece about Hitchcock and Gagne. Before Hitchcock came on board, Gagne was on his way to becoming a high scoring winger who could play great d. Hitch did nothing to improve that. Hitch didn't know how to use Gagne. That's my own personal opinion. He left his best winger to play on the checking line. What more needs to be said about that. Hitch put his best offensive winger on the checking line and every body "raves" about how Hitch turned Gagne into this great two way player. I think everybody should be thanking Bill Barber for the great job he did with Gagne, not Hitch.
That checking line very nearly won us a Stanley Cup...

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