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Parise and O'Sullivan

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Old
01-05-2004, 10:54 AM
  #1
tinyzombies
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Parise and O'Sullivan

Like a lot of us were saying here during the draft, why didn't Gainey trade up to get Parise? And why did we take Corey Urquwhat in the 2nd round over O'Sullivan? Because his dad beat him as a kid?

Bizarre.

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01-05-2004, 11:12 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Like a lot of us were saying here during the draft, why didn't Gainey trade up to get Parise? And why did we take Corey Urquwhat in the 2nd round over O'Sullivan? Because his dad beat him as a kid?

Bizarre.
Heres a better question, why are we looking back and second guessing our picks already? We picked Kostitsyn over Parise, who sais Parise will be better than him or anyone picked in the 1st round when they reach the NHL? Dion Phaneuf had a better tourney than Ryan Suter but I doubt Nashville are saying they should have picked Phaneuf insted.

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01-05-2004, 11:56 AM
  #3
Mike8
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Gainey became GM after the draft, no?

Regardless, why even post this? All you're going to get is speculation. And it's getting tedious having everyone post this same question any time a player performs well in one game.

I'll give a shot with your question though: have you ever seen O'Sullivan play in the OHL? He's a big time floater with some attitude problems last year, and major deficiencies in the fundamental parts of the game, and also regressed in the later stages of the year. Urquhart's a player whose stock rose as the season went on, and whose dedication to the fundamental parts of the game improved under a real coach. He's got a large frame and a nice package of offensive capabilities.

Why didn't the Habs trade up to get Parise? Well, what was the Devils' trade for Parise? I don't remember it off-hand, but either the Habs didn't have the assets or didn't feel giving up high picks in a deep draft warranted it.

Just remember that international junior tournaments aren't a good indicator for a player's future success.

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01-05-2004, 12:02 PM
  #4
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O'Sullivan was initially pegged to go pretty high in the first round but work ethic and attitude dropped him to the second round. There are reasons why every NHL team passed on him in round one. And as per Mike8's comments about the World Jr tourney performances, remember that Pierre Sevigny did really well for Canada at the World Jr's. There are a lot more players who drift away like him than there are players who go on to become stars after a good tournament.

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01-05-2004, 01:34 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Why didn't the Habs trade up to get Parise? Well, what was the Devils' trade for Parise? I don't remember it off-hand, but either the Habs didn't have the assets or didn't feel giving up high picks in a deep draft warranted it.
Their pick(23rd overall I believe) and a 3rd for Edmonton's first rounder.

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01-05-2004, 03:30 PM
  #6
tinyzombies
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Looks like I touched a nerve, eh?

O'Sullivan is a goal scorer and he's a kid. He's gonna grow up. At least it's worth a shot. If he doesn't grow up, then it didn't work out. But he definitely has goalscorer hands. I'm sick of all the damned projects we have.

Parise is a dynamic player. If you think it's worth having Lambert and Urquhart instead of Parise, then I guess I'll just have to disagree.

Why they didn't move the two second rounders for a player like this doesn't make sense.

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01-05-2004, 03:42 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Why they didn't move the two second rounders for a player like this doesn't make sense.
Would you take :

The 23rd pick overall and a 3rd rounder
or
Two 2nd rounders

I say that I would jump on the first one because it's not a big drop and you get an extra pick! And if they traded down, it's most likely that they had spotted a player or had no interests in the ones available.

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01-05-2004, 04:15 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Looks like I touched a nerve, eh?

O'Sullivan is a goal scorer and he's a kid. He's gonna grow up. At least it's worth a shot. If he doesn't grow up, then it didn't work out. But he definitely has goalscorer hands. I'm sick of all the damned projects we have.

Parise is a dynamic player. If you think it's worth having Lambert and Urquhart instead of Parise, then I guess I'll just have to disagree.

Why they didn't move the two second rounders for a player like this doesn't make sense.
question :how do you know that they didn't tried to dealed to get Parise ?
the draft day , they were a lot on the phone , so how can we know all the discuss they have had with other teams ?

anyway , Urquhart seems to have a lot of skill , and they also drafted a '' claude Lemieux or Begin '' type of player , in Lapierre, so what is the point ?

there were a lot of good players in this draft , so they could't took them all...

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Old
01-05-2004, 04:20 PM
  #9
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Reminder:

Todd Harvey was a force in the WJC, and pegged as the next Gary Roberts.

Take a few minutes, look at the players who dominated juniors over the years, and see where they are now. This tournament does not project what type of player you will develop into.

Ask Daniel Tkaczuk, or Rico Fata if it means anything now.

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01-05-2004, 04:30 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Like a lot of us were saying here during the draft, why didn't Gainey trade up to get Parise? And why did we take Corey Urquwhat in the 2nd round over O'Sullivan? Because his dad beat him as a kid?

Bizarre.
O'sullivan has an historic problem with is father .the staff who were working the draft day received the order to close the door to him , if ever he try to enter into the building .I don't know what kind of p-roblem the son have with the father , and it's not my business , but with all the talent of the 2003 drfatees , why take a chance to pick a player that you don't know what kind of trauma he have ....

it 's so simple to say why they didn't take Parise, Carter ,Stewart , O,Sullivan ,Steve Bernier,Getzlaf, Belle and .....the team have a lot of scout that saw all those players manytime and they evaluated that the ones they picked were the best available at that time

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01-05-2004, 04:43 PM
  #11
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Just for information sake:

To NJ: Oiler's 1st 17th Overall
To Edmonton: NJ 1st 22nd Overall(Originally STL), NJ 2nd 68th Overall

Oilers used 68th Overall to select JF Jacques
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect.php?pid=3633

The Oilers in the draft in the first two rounds ended up with:
MA Pouliot
Colin McDonald
JF Jacques

The Oilers passed on both players as well.

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Old
01-05-2004, 05:09 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Gainey became GM after the draft, no?

Regardless, why even post this? All you're going to get is speculation. And it's getting tedious having everyone post this same question any time a player performs well in one game.

I'll give a shot with your question though: have you ever seen O'Sullivan play in the OHL? He's a big time floater with some attitude problems last year, and major deficiencies in the fundamental parts of the game, and also regressed in the later stages of the year. Urquhart's a player whose stock rose as the season went on, and whose dedication to the fundamental parts of the game improved under a real coach. He's got a large frame and a nice package of offensive capabilities.

Why didn't the Habs trade up to get Parise? Well, what was the Devils' trade for Parise? I don't remember it off-hand, but either the Habs didn't have the assets or didn't feel giving up high picks in a deep draft warranted it.

Just remember that international junior tournaments aren't a good indicator for a player's future success.

Your last phrase is oh! sooooo true. Trevor Kidd or Jimmy Waite, anyone?

Or what about some great Jesse Wallin?

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01-05-2004, 06:24 PM
  #13
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With that logic...

that also means that Carter, Stewart, Crosby and Richards will all be busts because they all played excellent hockey at WJC?

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01-05-2004, 06:31 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs
Reminder:

Todd Harvey was a force in the WJC, and pegged as the next Gary Roberts.

Take a few minutes, look at the players who dominated juniors over the years, and see where they are now. This tournament does not project what type of player you will develop into.

Ask Daniel Tkaczuk, or Rico Fata if it means anything now.
Fata could answer, well it prepared me developping into a goalcorer in the NHL... with the "mighty" Penguins.

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Old
01-05-2004, 07:00 PM
  #15
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We have one of the best Junior players there was in Sundstrom on our roster right now.

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01-05-2004, 07:04 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
We have one of the best Junior players there was in Sundstrom on our roster right now.

He was on a line with Forsberg, though. Forsberg got 11 points in one game :|

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Old
01-05-2004, 11:21 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Looks like I touched a nerve, eh?
The only 'nerve' you hit is that I'm finding it silly that after every WJC game, someone comes on here asking why the Habs didn't select X player in the draft. As if watching a player for one game makes them an expert on the player. Added to that, I doubt most Hab posters have even seen Kostitsyn and Urquhart play to even make such a suggestion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
O'Sullivan is a goal scorer and he's a kid. He's gonna grow up. At least it's worth a shot. If he doesn't grow up, then it didn't work out. But he definitely has goalscorer hands. I'm sick of all the damned projects we have.
O'Sullivan is more of a project than Urquhart, who has the size, hands, and has played more polished hockey of late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Parise is a dynamic player. If you think it's worth having Lambert and Urquhart instead of Parise, then I guess I'll just have to disagree.

Why they didn't move the two second rounders for a player like this doesn't make sense.
What doesn't make sense is why you're even bringing this up. It was posted a few posts above yours that the Devils dealt a first (5 picks after #17) and a late second rounder for the #17 pick. Two second rounders would not have been enticing as this offer; not even close.

BTW, Lambert was a 2002 pick. Really, the Habs won't pick every dynamic player in the draft. Please understand this.

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01-05-2004, 11:25 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE
that also means that Carter, Stewart, Crosby and Richards will all be busts because they all played excellent hockey at WJC?
I said it's not a good indicator for future success. That doesn't mean good players in the tournament can't become good NHLers, but it also doesn't mean that good players in the tournament will certainly become good NHLers.

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01-06-2004, 05:15 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
O'Sullivan is a goal scorer and he's a kid. He's gonna grow up. At least it's worth a shot. If he doesn't grow up, then it didn't work out. But he definitely has goalscorer hands. I'm sick of all the damned projects we have.
?????
I would imagine every NHL team (include Minnesota) have deemed O'Sullivan a project. If that wasn't the case he would of been selected in the 1st round.

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Old
01-06-2004, 06:03 AM
  #20
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Any ways you look at it, you have to live with the team choice, who btw are without doubts way more informed about the players than we are... Again, I'm tired of seeing people wanting to change the past... can you change it ? I can't either... better live with it eh ?

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01-06-2004, 07:16 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
I said it's not a good indicator for future success. That doesn't mean good players in the tournament can't become good NHLers, but it also doesn't mean that good players in the tournament will certainly become good NHLers.

Canada's depth is such that I don't even know if O'Sullivan would have been invited to camp.

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Old
01-06-2004, 08:46 AM
  #22
tinyzombies
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I DID touch a nerve!

I just think O'Sullivan went undrafted for the wrong reasons. The other teams will be regretting not choosing Kastitsyn in a couple years for the same reason.

I think we could have had Parise if we wanted him. Maybe not with two second rounders, maybe yes. In any case, here's a top 10 player that slid very low probably because of size. He's probably going to be as good as Saku Koivu!

We already have depth up the ying-yang up front, so even if we had traded for a higher pick, we probably would have gone for Belle anyway.

It is fun to speculate about the past though, so don't give me that BS.

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01-06-2004, 09:09 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
I DID touch a nerve!

I just think O'Sullivan went undrafted for the wrong reasons. The other teams will be regretting not choosing Kastitsyn in a couple years for the same reason.

I think we could have had Parise if we wanted him. Maybe not with two second rounders, maybe yes. In any case, here's a top 10 player that slid very low probably because of size. He's probably going to be as good as Saku Koivu!

We already have depth up the ying-yang up front, so even if we had traded for a higher pick, we probably would have gone for Belle anyway.

<u><b>It is fun to speculate about the past though, so don't give me that </u></b>BS.

looks like it is even more fun to speculate about the future

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01-07-2004, 05:22 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgalus
looks like it is even more fun to speculate about the future
Thanks for the insight. :mad:

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Old
01-07-2004, 06:07 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Like a lot of us were saying here during the draft, why didn't Gainey trade up to get Parise? And why did we take Corey Urquwhat in the 2nd round over O'Sullivan? Because his dad beat him as a kid?

Bizarre.

1st: the Edmonton offer was better than 2 2nd round pick

2nd: The story with his father may not be the only reason. Small goalscorer often see their stock fallen. Remember Evseev Fata Barulin Hudler etc. Urquart is also a risky pick who could pay.

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