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Who is the greatest goal scorer to ever play?

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Old
09-05-2007, 07:37 PM
  #26
Blikian29
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Bobby Hull - 900+ if he doesn't go to the WHA
Mike Bossy - 800+ if he doesn't get injured
Wayne Gretzky - no need for explanation.
Rocket Richard - 50 in 50 in an era where goals didn't come easy.
Mario Lemieux - 800+ if he stayed healthy

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Old
09-05-2007, 10:13 PM
  #27
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I see it this way:


1 Gordie Howe
2 Bobby Hull
3 Maurice Richard
4 Phil Esposito
5 Wayne Gretzky
6 Mike Bossy
7 Cy Denneny
8 Cecil Dye
9 Nels Stewart
10 Mario Lemieux

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Old
09-05-2007, 10:17 PM
  #28
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Greatest goal scorer

Gretzky. Check the stats.
Why does this even generate discussion?

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Old
09-05-2007, 10:36 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
I see it this way:


1 Gordie Howe
2 Bobby Hull
3 Maurice Richard
4 Phil Esposito
5 Wayne Gretzky
6 Mike Bossy
7 Cy Denneny
8 Cecil Dye
9 Nels Stewart
10 Mario Lemieux

You have to be joking how can you have lemieux 10th thats just crazy talk. Howe should not only not be number one he shouldnt be in the top 10 at all. He avg a .45 goals during his career, lemieux avg.75 during his.

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Old
09-05-2007, 10:41 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by mpm26 View Post
You have to be joking how can you have lemieux 10th thats just crazy talk. Howe should not only not be number one he shouldnt be in the top 10 at all. He avg a .45 goals during his career, lemieux avg.75 during his.
You have a lot of work to do if you hope to gain some credibility on this topic.

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Old
09-05-2007, 10:52 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
You have a lot of work to do if you hope to gain some credibility on this topic.
Why is that? Howe was a great player no questions asked but no way is he one of the greatest goal scorers to play the game. Howe played 1767 games and had 1850 points and avg less then .50 goals per game that is not a great goal scorer i dont care what era he played in.

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Old
09-05-2007, 11:04 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
If Pavle Bure could have played a full career, I don't think there would be any issue ranking him among that group. He scored 50 goals every single season he played 70 or more games, and it was usually closer to 60.
He was certainly the most naturally talented goalscorer I've seen in my lifetime. Now, that's not the same as greatest, but it does count for something.

It really is too bad he didn't play in the shootout era.

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Old
09-05-2007, 11:35 PM
  #33
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Some of the selection im seeing are ridiculous. First off, people are sayin gretzky and saying look at the numbers. Well, people argue gretz as #1 bc its not about the numbers, anyone who strictly go according to numbers have absolutely no credability. Emmit smith is the nfls leading rusher..so does that means hes the best running back ever? Anyone who has watched football knows hes not even close. Its not just about numbers.

If Bossy and Bure arent in your top 5 ever, you need a new list. Bossy is second or third behing Mario/richard..and bure is 4 or 5.

If the people who are claiming that gretz is absolute 1 bc he scored the most goals ever need numbers to verify bossy and bure being in the top 5. Well, Bossy has the highest goals/per game ratio in league history and bure is righ there on that list as well.

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Old
09-05-2007, 11:37 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpm26 View Post
Why is that? Howe was a great player no questions asked but no way is he one of the greatest goal scorers to play the game. Howe played 1767 games and had 1850 points and avg less then .50 goals per game that is not a great goal scorer i dont care what era he played in.
This is a perfect example of why statistics, out of context, mean nothing.

1. Regardless of whether you care about what era Howe played in, it made a significant difference on his statistics. The average leaguewide GPG during Lemieux's career was 6.83. The average. The average leaguewide GPG during Howe's career was 5.69. This means that Lemieux had a 20% advantage in scoring.

2. Howe, unlike Lemieux, played way beyond his prime. After age 32, Lemieux played 170 games. After age 32, Howe played 851--nearly as much as Lemieux's entire career! Howe was still a great player at that age, but not as good as he once was. This caused his goals-per-game to drop. Basically, you're penalizing Howe for being healthy enough to stick around past his prime.

With that said, I agree that Lemieux was the better goal-scorer. But, it's much closer than you probably think.

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Old
09-05-2007, 11:50 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajuiceta View Post
Gretzky. Check the stats.
Why does this even generate discussion?

Because some people don't agree. Personally, even though I wasn't a fan, Mike Bossy: 10 seasons, five 60+ goals, four 50+goals. The only season he didn't score 50 was his last one when he may have if he wasn't hurt (68 games, 38 goals).

The question doesn't bring attention to what team the player played for or who were his linemates. the question simply states "who is the greatest goal score to ever play"?

Mike Bossy is as good as answer as anyone else.

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Old
09-05-2007, 11:52 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by mpm26 View Post
Why is that? Howe was a great player no questions asked but no way is he one of the greatest goal scorers to play the game. Howe played 1767 games and had 1850 points and avg less then .50 goals per game that is not a great goal scorer i dont care what era he played in.
Being top 5 in goal scoring 14 times doesn't make you a great goal scorer?

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Old
09-05-2007, 11:53 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider View Post
This is a perfect example of why statistics, out of context, mean nothing.

1. Regardless of whether you care about what era Howe played in, it made a significant difference on his statistics. The average leaguewide GPG during Lemieux's career was 6.83. The average. The average leaguewide GPG during Howe's career was 5.69. This means that Lemieux had a 20% advantage in scoring.

2. Howe, unlike Lemieux, played way beyond his prime. After age 32, Lemieux played 170 games. After age 32, Howe played 851--nearly as much as Lemieux's entire career! Howe was still a great player at that age, but not as good as he once was. This caused his goals-per-game to drop. Basically, you're penalizing Howe for being healthy enough to stick around past his prime.

With that said, I agree that Lemieux was the better goal-scorer. But, it's much closer than you probably think.
Yes, he played way past his prime. The reason he had so many goals is because he played in a lot of games. If lemieux or bossy or bure played as many or even 400 games more the gap between them and howe would be a lot more.

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Old
09-05-2007, 11:56 PM
  #38
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The reason he had so many goals is because he played in a lot of games.
Yeah, it couldnt be because he was consistantly amoung the top goal scorers year after year. No way.

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Old
09-05-2007, 11:56 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Speaker View Post
Being top 5 in goal scoring 14 times doesn't make you a great goal scorer?
It doesnt make you number one that is for sure. Putting a lot of years together healthy doesnt make you the greatest.

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Old
09-06-2007, 12:03 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by mpm26 View Post
It doesnt make you number one that is for sure. Putting a lot of years together healthy doesnt make you the greatest.
I'm not trying to argue that he's #1. I'm trying to argue that he was a great goal scorer. one of the best. When you can be at the top of the goal scoring list for an extended period of time that equals greatness.

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09-06-2007, 12:30 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Bajuiceta View Post
Gretzky. Check the stats.
Why does this even generate discussion?
Yeah... because stats are always the most accurate representation.

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Old
09-06-2007, 12:53 AM
  #42
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Yeah... because stats are always the most accurate representation.
Stats are great when you know how to use them. Unfortunatley, not many do.

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Old
09-06-2007, 01:07 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by TheCherryPickers View Post
If Bossy and Bure arent in your top 5 ever, you need a new list. Bossy is second or third behing Mario/richard..and bure is 4 or 5.
And to me a list without Lalonde is a flawed list.

Given the diverse nature of criteria and opinion, there's no definitive list.

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Old
09-06-2007, 01:13 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
And to me a list without Lalonde is a flawed list.

Given the diverse nature of criteria and opinion, there's no definitive list.
He played so long ago its really hard to compare players from alomost 100 years ago to today.

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09-06-2007, 01:16 AM
  #45
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Opinions are diverse...but some opinions carry more weight than others (at least to me). As in guys who played the game. Specifically, the greats of the game.

Ask Mario, Gretzky and Ray Bourque, among others, to name the best pure goal scorer they ever saw. Their answer is unanimous.

He wore #22 in an Islander jersey.

Debate them.

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Old
09-06-2007, 01:18 AM
  #46
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Bossy.

Didn't he have the highest goals per game average?

NUFF SAID!

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Old
09-06-2007, 01:25 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by mpm26 View Post
He played so long ago its really hard to compare players from alomost 100 years ago to today.
So. By saying Bure and Bossy are top 5 all-time, you are saying they are better than Lalonde, and thus are compairing players who played 80 years apart. If you truely believed the words you just typed, then your answer to the question "Who is the greatest goal scorer to ever play?" would be something along the lines of, "Due to changes in the game and the lack of availability of footage of many players, it is impossible to give an accurate answer to this question." Not, "Bossy and Bure are top 5 and if you disagree, you are wrong."

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09-06-2007, 01:29 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Opinions are diverse...but some opinions carry more weight than others (at least to me). As in guys who played the game. Specifically, the greats of the game.

Ask Mario, Gretzky and Ray Bourque, among others, to name the best pure goal scorer they ever saw. Their answer is unanimous.

He wore #22 in an Islander jersey.

Debate them.
I cant really argue about bossy as the greatest. I dont think he is but he does have a higher gpg by.05 over lemieux.

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Old
09-06-2007, 01:37 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
So. By saying Bure and Bossy are top 5 all-time, you are saying they are better than Lalonde, and thus are compairing players who played 80 years apart. If you truely believed the words you just typed, then your answer to the question "Who is the greatest goal scorer to ever play?" would be something along the lines of, "Due to changes in the game and the lack of availability of footage of many players, it is impossible to give an accurate answer to this question." Not, "Bossy and Bure are top 5 and if you disagree, you are wrong."
Ok, Newsy Lalonde played 99 nhl games scoring 124 goals. The most games he ever played was 24 which in my judgement makes it impossible to compare to a player that could play 99 games in one year(counting playoffs). He also didnt only play in the nhl he played in the NHA and the WCHL.


Last edited by mpm26: 09-06-2007 at 01:39 AM. Reason: messed up
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Old
09-06-2007, 01:43 AM
  #50
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Bossy is without a doubt one of the best pure goalscorers , but his stats are inflated by two factors :

- He played almost his entire during the 80's
- He retired at 30

Marios gpg at 30 was almost 1g/pg. I don't excatly know the adjusted numbers , you could ask Hockey Insider or pnep for that.

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