HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Sundin Disciplinary Hearing

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-07-2004, 10:17 AM
  #26
BlueBlood17
Registered User
 
BlueBlood17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Greece
Posts: 1,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
The same thing can be said about almost any suspendable infraction. For example. Doug Weight gives Sedin a face full of lumber. That was completely reactional as well. Now, I bet Doug Weight didn't recycle through his head the number of guys who have been suspended for doing the same thing over the past 10 years either, and think "I better no".

It's arguable as to what can be said will "send a message"... as no matter how big the suspension has been previously, some of the same instances continue to occur.
That was precisely the point I was trying to make in response to those that thought that the league should make an example of Sundin by giving him a really long suspension. That wouldn't really accomplish much.

@crossxcheck......I guess "instinctively" was the wrong choice of word....but you know what I meant (I hope?)...it was more of a reaction than a deliberate action.

BlueBlood17 is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 10:23 AM
  #27
Frankie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage
So hitting from behind, elbowing and intentional high sticks to the face will get you 2 games max but a accidental stick into the seats gets you 10 games.

You do realize he's getting a fine at the most, right?
yep, all those things get you 2 games, but when you endanger the fan, i think that's 10 times worse.

the players know the risks they take by stepping onto the ice. as a fan, i don't expect i'm taking a risk of getting hit with a stick from a player who is frustrated and acting like a baby.

he won't get anything more than a fine and maybe a game, but that's a joke.

send a message here and it will definitely make others think twice before they go off the deep end in immature frustration.

Frankie is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 10:23 AM
  #28
Mithras
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Please do not compare what Sundin did with what happened with Nolan.

Owen Nolan gets paid, and there is an assumed risk that he agreed to. The fan pays to watch a game, and a stick being hurled by a player (accident or not), into the stands is not part of the assumed risks of being a fan.

There is a huge difference between the two, and there is no reason what so ever to compare them.
One player wants to throw his stick at the glass, is not careful enough and it does something he didnít intent to do. No one is hurt. Another player tries to lift another players stick and/or give him a ďlight tapĒ, is not careful enough and it does something he didnít intent to do. Someone is hurt.

Whatís the difference? The person that is hurt is at his job site and he understands and acknowledges that fact that there is an inherent danger there. The person that MAY have been hurt (but wasnít) was at a entertainment event where they must understands and acknowledge that there is an inherent danger associated with attending the event.

Donít look at it in terms of sport, look at it n terms of labour. You are at a construction site. You are a construction worker, and get hit with a falling brick. You are at a construction site because you are touring your new house that is being built and get hit by a falling brick. Both of you are in the same general place under the same general conditions, so you both have to understand that there are certain dangers involved with being there. You can both get hit with a falling brick. One person lives with that danger every day, while the other only when they visit the construction site. But the fact that one of the people is a construction worker doesnít make it all right for him to get hit, while it isnít all right for the other person it get hit.

The back of your ticket at a hockey game says you must understand and acknowledge that high speed objects may leave the playing surface and hit you at any time. Thatísí what happened. It is part of the assumed risk.

The refs on the ice didn't feel that what Sundin did warranted a penalty. I think the league will feel the same way.

Mithras is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 10:26 AM
  #29
BlueBlood17
Registered User
 
BlueBlood17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Greece
Posts: 1,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie
send a message here and it will definitely make others think twice before they go off the deep end in immature frustration.
No it won't. For further details, see the discussion in the last few posts of page 1.

BlueBlood17 is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 10:27 AM
  #30
Kenadyan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Asheboro, NC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4
I believe that the maximum fine allowed under the CBA is $1,000. That paltry a sum for a potentially dangerous (although admittedly completely out of character) incident won't cut it. Look for a one game suspension.
Yeah, he probably should get a one game suspension, but hopefully not for tomorrow night against the Senators. Maybe the next time the Leafs play Pittsburgh.

Kenadyan is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 10:28 AM
  #31
Frankie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
The back of your ticket at a hockey game says you must understand and acknowledge that high speed objects may leave the playing surface and hit you at any time. Thatísí what happened. It is part of the assumed risk.
no, that's not part of the assumed risk of a fan. its not like an errant puck going up into the stands.

a player who is upset and whips his stick into the crowd, intentional or not, is not part of any assumed risk by the fan.

Frankie is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 10:29 AM
  #32
habfan4
Registered User
 
habfan4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Deus Amat Pretzel
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenadyan
Yeah, he probably should get a one game suspension, but hopefully not for tomorrow night against the Senators. Maybe the next time the Leafs play Pittsburgh.
I put my call into the league and asked that Sundin be absent for the next Leafs vs Habs tilt.

habfan4 is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 10:35 AM
  #33
Mithras
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie
no, that's not part of the assumed risk of a fan. its not like an errant puck going up into the stands.

a player who is upset and whips his stick into the crowd, intentional or not, is not part of any assumed risk by the fan.

No it's not like an errant puck, more like an errant stick...

Mithras is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 10:38 AM
  #34
crossxcheck
Registered User
 
crossxcheck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Nashvegas
Country: United States
Posts: 2,762
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to crossxcheck Send a message via MSN to crossxcheck Send a message via Yahoo to crossxcheck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage
So hitting from behind, elbowing and intentional high sticks to the face will get you 2 games max
You think Roberts needs a 2 game suspension?

crossxcheck is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 10:40 AM
  #35
Oil_in_my_veins
Registered User
 
Oil_in_my_veins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Windsor, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 930
vCash: 500
of course Sundin didn't do this intentionally, but regardless of intent, an action like that deserves at least a 1 game suspension +fine.

the league has to make an example of this. players need to control their actions when it comes to fan safety.

after putting up all the safety nets they can't just ignore something like this.

imagine if someone had been hurt. they could have sued the Leafs, the Air Canada Centre and the League.

that's the last thing the league wants.

Oil_in_my_veins is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 10:45 AM
  #36
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
Donít look at it in terms of sport, look at it n terms of labour. You are at a construction site. You are a construction worker, and get hit with a falling brick. You are at a construction site because you are touring your new house that is being built and get hit by a falling brick. Both of you are in the same general place under the same general conditions, so you both have to understand that there are certain dangers involved with being there. You can both get hit with a falling brick. One person lives with that danger every day, while the other only when they visit the construction site. But the fact that one of the people is a construction worker doesnít make it all right for him to get hit, while it isnít all right for the other person it get hit.

The back of your ticket at a hockey game says you must understand and acknowledge that high speed objects may leave the playing surface and hit you at any time. Thatísí what happened. It is part of the assumed risk.

The refs on the ice didn't feel that what Sundin did warranted a penalty. I think the league will feel the same way.
This isn't a puck that a player gets underneath a little too much on a shot, or that gets deflected. This is a stick that is thrown by a player, which falls completely outside the paramaters, rules and regulations of the game. This isn't the blade flying off a stick. This is a player throwing a stick.

That act of throwing the stick is against the rules. Period. The fact that he threw it into the stands is an endangerment to the fans in the stands.

Your idea of dropping a brick is different... as the Nolan situation you are referring to isn't the same as the Sundin one. In order to draw a comparison, you need to look at a similar situation... i.e. a player getting hit by a stick thrown by Sundin. Also getting hit by a falling brick is different than getting hit by a brick thrown by someone. And let me tell you something, if you were to get hit by a brick thrown by someone, they wouldn't have a job anymore.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 10:46 AM
  #37
McOylerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
McOylerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,414
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage
So hitting from behind, elbowing and intentional high sticks to the face will get you 2 games max but a accidental stick into the seats gets you 10 games.

You do realize he's getting a fine at the most, right?
The difference is that "hitting from behind, elbowing and intentional high sticks to the face" are infractions against a peer and tossing your stick in the crowd is an infraction against a fan, essentially the league's livelyhood. Nobody wants to go to a game and get hit with a flying stick thus if no punishment is dealt the League is saying that the fans are not important. If I, as a fan see that the League doesn't value me, am I going to continue to support it? No way. This need to be dealt with more harshly than an infraction between players IMO becuse it is an infraction that stikes at the very livelyhood of the league. Look what happened after a fan was killed in Columbus... ie League-wide Netting. Obviously since no player can be faulted for a puck going in the stands no suspension or fine occured, however in this case Sundin can be faulted for throwing his stick. At the glass or in the stands, he did in fact throw it when he should have just dropped it to the ice or carried it off himself. That said, due to the fact that no one was injured I would be very surprised if He gets more than a game or two and a fine.

By the way since when does remorse equal a lesser penalty?

McOylerz is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 10:51 AM
  #38
McOylerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
McOylerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,414
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
The back of your ticket at a hockey game says you must understand and acknowledge that high speed objects may leave the playing surface and hit you at any time. That’s’ what happened. It is part of the assumed risk.
The assumption that this makes is that these high speed objects are pucks (accident) or accidental pieces of a brocken stick.
Anyone who argues that this was an accident is not thinking straight. Sundin did in fact mean to throw his stick, the fact that it went into the crowd is unfortunate but not accidental.

McOylerz is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 11:05 AM
  #39
Dar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: Northern Ireland
Posts: 4,813
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Dar
BTW, on a side note... The guy that was given the autographed stick sold it after the game for $600.00.

Dar is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 11:39 AM
  #40
Mithras
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 202
vCash: 500
Unconfirmed report from Mojo radio:

$1,000 fine.

Mithras is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 12:06 PM
  #41
GD|eNSo
Registered User
 
GD|eNSo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: In Your Head
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
TSN

One game suspension, TSN.

GD|eNSo is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 12:20 PM
  #42
MHJS
Registered User
 
MHJS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by emenius
TSN

One game suspension, TSN.
Wow, I was just about to reply and say a fine would be good, with a 1 game suspension at most.

MHJS is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 01:37 PM
  #43
Leaf Army
Registered User
 
Leaf Army's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 8,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oylerz
Nobody wants to go to a game and get hit with a flying stick thus if no punishment is dealt the League is saying that the fans are not important.
Umm...did you see the guy after he caught the stick? He was having a blast. He certainly wasn't the least bit upset.

But I got to admit, if you had told me before the game that Sundin was going to intentionally whip his stick into the crowd I would have guessed a longer suspension.

However, considering that it was just a small part of the stick and he was not deliberately throwing it AT the fan, I think that's why he only got one game.

Not to mention no one was hurt and most people thought it was more humourous than dangerous. Including the guy who caught the stick.

Leaf Army is offline  
Old
01-07-2004, 03:56 PM
  #44
buckpunny
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: toronto
Posts: 63
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckpunny
not gonna happen.
well. i eat MY words.

also... i would do anything to get sundin's stick thrown at me! :p

buckpunny is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:09 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.