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Gomez really better then Nylander

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09-10-2007, 06:54 PM
  #26
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
i dont think gomez is particularly better than Nylander except for 1 facet which might be huge for the Rangers.

Scott Gomez is the best entry zone player in the game bar none. How many times last year has Nylander done his ballerina routine trying to gain entry into the zone rather than bring it in with speed or dump and retrieve? Gomez is amazing in this regard. He uses his speed and puck control skills to back off the defense, and gains the zone, or dumps it in and recovers it. Hes amazing at that aspect, and its literally the only part of his game that im excited in seeing. I think Nylander is as good a passer as Gomez, I think Nylander is a far far far better goal scorer than Gomez (despite his overpassing), etc etc


Again, im very interested in seeing how his ability to gain the offensive zone, particularly on the power play, will lead to more offense. I think his presence alone will lead to a far far far more superior power play.
Great analysis of Gomez. His ability to get the puck in the zone was by far his biggest strength with the Devils. Unfortunately for the team, it became pretty predictable - every time the Devils had the puck in their defensive zone and Gomez was on the ice, they would give it to him and hope he'd skate it up ice. Other teams eventually caught on to it and started denying him the puck early, which really hurt his effectiveness. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out with the Rangers.

But as you alluded to, his biggest strength is is speed. People talk about his passing, but honestly, I feel that Jagr and Elias are both better passers than Gomez. Gomez's speed and stickhandling through the neutral zone are the skills that really set him apart.

As for points from other people:

1) Gomez never played the penalty kill for NJ. As in ever.
2) There's a reason that no-offense Madden took draws late in games with the Devils down by a goal, while Gomez played the wing.

Gomez v. Nylander in my opinion:
1) Gomez is a better skater through the neutral zone with the puck (one of the best in the league).
2) Gomez is much younger
3) about equal at passing
4) Nylander is a better goal scorer
5) Nylander has chemistry with Jagr; Gomez may or may not develop it.


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09-10-2007, 06:56 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintballruler View Post
He signed in washington for a "Four year 19.5 million" That is $ 4,875,000 a year and we signed gomez for what? seven years at $51.5-million (average of $7.357-million per season)

For $2,482,000 is gomez that much better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
nobody is asking if Gomez (or Nylander) is overpaid.

The question was is Gomez a better player than Nylander.
salaries were brought up in the question, but to answer the initial question, no nylander is not better than gomez.

but to answer this question no

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09-10-2007, 06:59 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
nobody is asking if Gomez (or Nylander) is overpaid.

The question was is Gomez a better player than Nylander.
and the answer is a resounding yes

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09-10-2007, 06:59 PM
  #29
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Sidney Crosby is only 7 assists off of Gomez's 3 year total....in 2 years.

man, i would almost sell my soul to have that kid on the rangers.

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09-10-2007, 07:01 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Great analysis of Gomez. His ability to get the puck in the zone was by far his biggest strength with the Devils. Unfortunately for the team, it became pretty predictable - every time the Devils had the puck in their defensive zone and Gomez was on the ice, they would give it to him and hope he'd skate it up ice. Other teams eventually caught on to it and started denying him the puck early, which really hurt his effectiveness. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out with the Rangers.

But as you alluded to, his biggest strength is is speed. People talk about his passing, but honestly, I feel that Jagr and Elias are both better passers than Gomez. Gomez's speed and stickhandling through the neutral zone are the skills that really set him apart.

As for points from other people:

1) Gomez never played the penalty kill for NJ. As in ever.
2) There's a reason that no-offense Madden took draws late in games with the Devils down by a goal, while Gomez played the wing.
agreed, that was the rangers entire game plan when playing against the devils, have the deep forechecker deny the puck to gomez, but allow free movement by the offwing. it was quite funny to watch. the problem with that way of playing is then youre allowing straka and jagr almost free reign through the neutral zone if you are shadowing gomez.

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09-10-2007, 07:11 PM
  #31
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well

I believe that gomez is better even before playing with jagr , i believe he will only get more assits and more goals than he had in New Jersey, jagr is a better passer and playmaker than gomez has played with in new jersey and jagr is also a better goal scorer than gomez has ever played with, and jagr hinted kinda that he likes drury(made a comment to lundy) so IF Gomez doesnt fit with jags than he will go just fine with shanny and prucha

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09-10-2007, 07:14 PM
  #32
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Long term this situation is much better. It is debatable if it's better having Gomez over Nylander this upcoming season but in 3 years he will be worth much more to this team then Nylander would.

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09-10-2007, 07:27 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintballruler View Post
My question is, is Gomez that much better then Nylander?
Gomez isn't better than Nylander. However he is much younger. Nylander wanted to be here until he was 38. The Ranger didn't want that. Instead, Gomez will be here until he's 34. Obviously they overpaid considerably for Gomez. But I assume they had no choice.

Gomez might be marginally better than Nylander on the defensive side of the puck. But it's a moot point as Gomez isn't good defensively anyway. Anybody that watches the Devils regularly or watched him in international competition can tell you that. Defense is a weakness for Gomez.

Gomez is a significant downgrade on the shootouts.

Where Gomez excels is in the speed department. In particular he will benefit the Rangers with his ability to penetrate the offensive zone and set up the PP. This was a hole for the Rangers during stretches of last season.

My prediction is that he doesn't gel with Jagr at all and eventually there will be a Shanny-Gomez-Drury line. Renney will form this line very begrudgingly but will be forced to. Very similar to how he was forced to make adjustments last season in spite of his stubbornness. And I think it will be a very good line... overpaid or not.

As a result, I think this will once again be a second half of the year team. Not to the same extent as last season. But I think they will be better in the second half than in the first half.

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09-10-2007, 07:35 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post
Gomez isn't better than Nylander. However he is much younger. Nylander wanted to be here until he was 38. The Ranger didn't want that. Instead, Gomez will be here until he's 34. Obviously they overpaid considerably for Gomez. But I assume they had no choice.

Gomez might be marginally better than Nylander on the defensive side of the puck. But it's a moot point as Gomez isn't good defensively anyway. Anybody that watches the Devils regularly or watched him in international competition can tell you that. Defense is a weakness for Gomez.

Gomez is a significant downgrade on the shootouts.

Where Gomez excels is in the speed department. In particular he will benefit the Rangers with his ability to penetrate the offensive zone and set up the PP. This was a hole for the Rangers during stretches of last season.

My prediction is that he doesn't gel with Jagr at all and eventually there will be a Shanny-Gomez-Drury line. Renney will form this line very begrudgingly but will be forced to. Very similar to how he was forced to make adjustments last season in spite of his stubbornness. And I think it will be a very good line... overpaid or not.

As a result, I think this will once again be a second half of the year team. Not to the same extent as last season. But I think they will be better in the second half than in the first half.
interesting combination

Hossa Straka Jagr
Shanny Gomez Drury
Prucha Avery Callahan
Dawes/Dubinsky/Anisimov/Hollweg/Whoever Betts Orr/Hollweg


could work...

im sure during the course of the year, a billion different combos will be used.

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09-10-2007, 07:39 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty0wns30 View Post
salaries were brought up in the question, but to answer the initial question, no nylander is not better than gomez.

but to answer this question no
No, the question was not is Gomez overpaid. The question is he a better player. And if so, is he that much of a better player that he deserves 2M plus more than Nylander.

Salaries were brought up. But noone mentioned either of them being overpaid.

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09-10-2007, 07:40 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post
My prediction is that he doesn't gel with Jagr at all and eventually there will be a Shanny-Gomez-Drury line. Renney will form this line very begrudgingly but will be forced to. Very similar to how he was forced to make adjustments last season in spite of his stubbornness. And I think it will be a very good line... overpaid or not.
your probably right because he didnt really gel with elias, at times they looked good but not consistently and elias and jagr are similar type players

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09-10-2007, 07:41 PM
  #37
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If all things were equal between the two players and they are not, the extra money is worth the 7 years in age difference. Gomez will be Nylanders age right now at the conclusion of the contract. Having said that, they are two different type players. Gomez has speed to burn. Nylander transports the puck, so does Gomez. Gomez is a better defensive player. Both are effective play makers, slight edge maybe to Gomez. Nylander developed into a better goal scorer as he got older. I suspect Gomez will do the same.

Nylander was a perfect fit for Jagr. We will see how well Gomez fits in with Jagr and therein lies the answer, at least for the next two years.

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09-10-2007, 07:44 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post
Gomez isn't better than Nylander. However he is much younger. Nylander wanted to be here until he was 38. The Ranger didn't want that. Instead, Gomez will be here until he's 34. Obviously they overpaid considerably for Gomez. But I assume they had no choice.

Gomez might be marginally better than Nylander on the defensive side of the puck. But it's a moot point as Gomez isn't good defensively anyway. Anybody that watches the Devils regularly or watched him in international competition can tell you that. Defense is a weakness for Gomez.

Gomez is a significant downgrade on the shootouts.

Where Gomez excels is in the speed department. In particular he will benefit the Rangers with his ability to penetrate the offensive zone and set up the PP. This was a hole for the Rangers during stretches of last season.

My prediction is that he doesn't gel with Jagr at all and eventually there will be a Shanny-Gomez-Drury line. Renney will form this line very begrudgingly but will be forced to. Very similar to how he was forced to make adjustments last season in spite of his stubbornness. And I think it will be a very good line... overpaid or not.

As a result, I think this will once again be a second half of the year team. Not to the same extent as last season. But I think they will be better in the second half than in the first half.
i totally agree with that, i think it wil ltake soem time to find out who drury and gomez play better with and i tihnk it wil tlake time to get the lines adjusted to teh point were there perfect

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09-10-2007, 07:47 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
No, the question was not is Gomez overpaid. The question is he a better player. And if so, is he that much of a better player that he deserves 2M plus more than Nylander.

Salaries were brought up. But noone mentioned either of them being overpaid.
ok so i was a little OT, but who isnt?

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09-10-2007, 08:07 PM
  #40
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gomez is a lot better than nylander....so we all saw the contract that nylander got from washington.....they overpaid for him by a lot...something like 5 million a year for a 36 year old who has had two god years playing with jagr. before that, he was always hurt. gomez is a much more scrappy player. he fits into the system and the way the rangers are going for the future. if you see the prospects coming up, they are all physical, fast and can score....tell me that isnt gomez....he brings a huge amount of experience and has never really been hurt for an extended amount of time....lets not forget he is 27 and not 36

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09-10-2007, 08:23 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
if you see the prospects coming up, they are all physical, fast and can score....tell me that isnt gomez
Without question, that is not Gomez. Why do people perpetuate these ideas about Gomez without having watched him play? There is no physical element to his game. If you jab him in the face, sure, he'll jab back. If you push him, he'll push back. But he is regularly a soft player. It's not a knock. That's just the type of player he is. He isn't a very good forechecker. He's not strong. He's not big. He has no presence in front of the net.

Where does this "Gomez is physical" idea stem from? It's a very interesting anomaly. Neither during the regular season, vast majority of playoffs games, nor in international competition has he shown this "physical" game. Nor has he ever been strong on the defensive side of the puck. I'll tell you, people are really going to be surprised with his actual game once he starts playing here. Because apparently the scouting report by way to many people is "great scorer; very fast; physical game; hard nosed; very good defensively; good leader". People are going to be like, "what happened to his game? Must be the coaching."

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09-10-2007, 08:25 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Marty0wns30 View Post
ok so i was a little OT, but who isnt?
The question isn't whether or not people are a little off topic in a thread. It's whether or not Gomez is a better player than Nylander!!!!!!!!


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09-10-2007, 08:26 PM
  #43
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Whether or not Gomez is overpaid is still to be determined people. Surely you don't want to look like a fool if he puts up 90-100 points this season (if he plays with Jagr). This is especially true of Devil's fans, who quickly point that out despite ever seeing Gomez play one game as a Ranger. If he doesn't perform this season and even next season then you might have a point, but right now it's mostly just assumptions and more assumptions. It's not like this guy is past his prime, he just entering it


Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Sidney Crosby is only 7 assists off of Gomez's 3 year total....in 2 years.

man, i would almost sell my soul to have that kid on the rangers.
I true believe it will happen one day. Either he will play here or for the Habs/Leafs is my prediction. I'm sure all Pen's fans believe he will stay in Pittsburgh forever and ever, but my guess is he will opt out of there when his contract expires.

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09-10-2007, 08:31 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty0wns30 View Post
salaries were brought up in the question, but to answer the initial question, no nylander is not better than gomez.

but to answer this question no
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron View Post
The question isn't whether or not people are a little off topic in a thread. It's whether or not Gomez is a better player than Nylander!!!!!!!!

first of all i already answered it, second of all everybody is off topic with other things like talking about lines so i dont see what the big deal is

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09-10-2007, 08:36 PM
  #45
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Though I agree with what everyone has said, the Gomez is the better player, I think that many of you are undervaluing Nylander. In many ways, he was the perfect center for Jagr. Not only was he was an extraordinary playmaker (as his Gomez), he was able to subsume his own ego to the towering ego of Jagr, and play the European style that Jagr (and Straka) play instinctively.
How Gomez and Jagr mesh their styles, personalities and egos is one of the more interesting questions as camp opens. The thought of Gomez coming into the zone with speed and setting up Jagr is certainly exciting. But, I certainly appreciate all that Nylander did. The guy was an excellent player for us.

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09-10-2007, 08:43 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Marty0wns30 View Post
first of all i already answered it, second of all everybody is off topic with other things like talking about lines so i dont see what the big deal is

Dude! I was messing with ya. I figured the plethora of emoticons would have clued you in.

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09-10-2007, 08:55 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by stc1709 View Post
i totally agree with that, i think it wil ltake soem time to find out who drury and gomez play better with and i tihnk it wil tlake time to get the lines adjusted to teh point were there perfect
I think that should actually be expected. I don't see the hot start like Buffalo had last year, more of a slightly mediocre, then a pretty quick transition. But who knows, it's in the player's hands.

Oh and to answer the OP, I believe Gomez will/has a slight advantage of Nylander overall.

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09-10-2007, 08:56 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Let's also not forget that he was an average player before he played with Jagr.
Nylander's points per game before Jagr are actually not very different from Gomez's points per game over his career and Gomez was playing with some pretty fair teammates in NJ while Nylander was playing with not much.

They have different skills. Nylander is a master in close quarters. Gomez's big advantages are age and the ability to gain the offensive zone.

Results wise there's not much difference to date. Even with Gomez joining Jagr it would not be a shock to see Nylander outscore him this year.

Age is the only reason to prefer Gomez in this particular situation.

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09-10-2007, 09:35 PM
  #49
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I really miss Nylander he was a good Ranger during his time here... I personally wanted to see him get resigned and see the team just pick up Drury. But I think Gomez was a better move for the team in the long run because of his youth... as much as I liked Nylander's style of play and chemistry with Jagr.. he wanted too many years ... I much rather see Gomez playing with our up and coming guys after the Jagr Era.

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09-10-2007, 09:42 PM
  #50
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ok....by saying physical, i mean that he is more physical than....say jagr and nylander...which isnt very hard, but he still brings the N.A. game to a, still considered, european soft team

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