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Gomez really better then Nylander

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09-10-2007, 08:55 PM
  #51
Gunnar Stahl 30
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Dude! I was messing with ya. I figured the plethora of emoticons would have clued you in.
i was confused by the plethora of emotions

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09-10-2007, 09:00 PM
  #52
Jaromir Jagr
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We have to see a good 40 games before comparing the two because of ranger blue atmosphere and because of Jagr. Obviously, anyone that plays with Jagr will put more points up then putting him with...I dunno, any random person, but, things need to click with Jagr. We saw Nylander play very good for us the two years he was here, I was never not impressed, especially toward the end of the season and in the playoffs, outstanding.

I'm not convinced quite yet. Let's see Gomez knock 90 points and be a team player and clutch player like Nylander at needed times then I will claim to be argumentative on the two or side with Gomez.

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09-10-2007, 09:09 PM
  #53
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I know that most people on here agree that overall Gomez is a better player than Nylander, but how can people say that Nylander is a way a better goal scorer than Gomez?

Anyone playing with Jagr should have their goal totals increase, but even then, Nylander never hit 30 goals.

In fact there can be an argument made that Nylander in fact cost Jagr the Art Ross in 2005-06 due to his refusal to shoot the puck and also due to the fact that Nylander is not that great of a goal scorer and there in turn costing Jagr a few extra assists.

Gomez on the other hand has had a 33 goal scoring season and is only 27 and so still has potential to reach 30 again. Let's not forget that Gomez scored 33 goals playing for a very conservative Devils' team and all the while not having the chance to play with a player of Jagr's calibre, and no, Elias or even Mogilny are not of Jagr's level.

So I think if the chemistry is there for Gomez and Jagr, it should almost be a certainty that Gomez will hit 30 goals again for the Rangers, something Nylander never did. So I don't see where this argument of Nylander being a better goals scorer than Gomez comes from?

Also if the chemistry is there for Gomez and Jagr, I think that they will outscore the duo of Nylander-Jagr.


Last edited by livewell68: 09-10-2007 at 09:14 PM. Reason: Spelling
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09-10-2007, 09:38 PM
  #54
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Nylander:
189 goals in 808 games in his career
Take out his last 2 years w/ Jagr you get
140 in 648

Projected to 82 games:
18 goals a season

Gomez:
116 in 548
Take out his 1 good year you get
83 in 466
Projected: 15 goals in 82 games

so i guess they are both meh ish, and im not sure who nylander has played with throughout his career besides jagr and straka these past 2 years, but we know gomez has played with Mogilny, Elias, and Gionta for sure.

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09-10-2007, 09:39 PM
  #55
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if there is chemistry there, they will outscore thornton and cheechoo

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09-10-2007, 09:42 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
if there is chemistry there, they will outscore thornton and cheechoo
no.

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09-10-2007, 09:46 PM
  #57
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let me also add, im 99% sure Gomez had the lowest shooting % of any regular player with at least X amount of shots in the league last year, and that 1 anomalous season aside, he averages 6.35% shooting percentage for the 4 out of his last 5 years.


thats pretty pathetic.

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09-10-2007, 09:47 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
if there is chemistry there, they will outscore thornton and cheechoo
A little too optomistic I would say...

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09-10-2007, 09:49 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
let me also add, im 99% sure Gomez had the lowest shooting % of any regular player with at least X amount of shots in the league last year, and that 1 anomalous season aside, he averages roughly 6.5% shooting percentage for the 6 out of his last 7 years.


thats pretty pathetic.
well he is a playmaker, he is a below average goal scorer

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09-10-2007, 09:50 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Marty0wns30 View Post
well he is a playmaker, he is a below average goal scorer
yeah, im responding to a post about how i feel nylander is a way better goal scorer than him.

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09-10-2007, 09:52 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by MojoJojo View Post
People always assume Gomez is better defensively because he played with the Devils. Sure, he played within their system, but he has never been a shut down guy, and had stretches when he was plain awful in his own zone. It will be interesting to see what he does without a strong system to play in. On the one hand he was probably held back offensively, on the other hand, who plays defense if he's floating? Straka? Jagr?

Would also like to add, and this has nothing to do with Gomez, that Nylander does not get enough credit by Rangers fans.
Was going to post the same thing.

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09-10-2007, 09:52 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
yeah, im responding to a post about how i feel nylander is a way better goal scorer than him.
oh,

well gomez has started to shoot more though, he used to just always pass and defenders would give him the shot because he didnt have one but he has improved in that area of his game so im sure he will continue to improve his shot

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09-10-2007, 09:53 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
No, I think that point deserves repeating: would we really want Nylander for potentially two years after Jagr leaves?
"We" may not have been willing to sign Nylander for more than one or two years, but Sather evidently was--after all, it's pretty clear from published reports that Sather offered Nylander a 3 year contract. I don't think the real sticking point in re-signing Nylander came down to the number of years, it was the money (or lack of it) involved that in the end made Nylander decide to fire to fire his agent and ultimately look elsewhere. We'll never know, but it would have been very interesting to see what would have happened if Sather had been willing to offer more $$$ (say in the $13-$14 million range) over those 3 years.

We'll have to wait and see how much chemistry is worth. If Gomez settles in well, there won't be any issues--he's clearly the more talented player. But, if he has problems adjusting to either the system or his linemates on the ice, we may very well have a problem--sometimes lesser parts do equal more than what they should based on talent alone.

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Old
09-10-2007, 10:09 PM
  #64
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as long as gomez spins about half as much as nylander does I will have no problems loving him

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09-10-2007, 10:19 PM
  #65
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I think what it comes down to is roster age. For Washington, which also had both Nylander and Jagr together for two years, Nylander is a known quantity, a good citizen and a generally underrated top-six center who played well for the Caps. He has been the same player for the past four NHL seasons, albeit with Jagr, but the Caps are assuming he gels with either Ovechkin or Semin, no slouches in their own right. He'll play with elite talent.

Nylander may score a few more goals, Gomez may be a more natural playmaker, but the difference is age. Washington is still a very young team, looking to add experience and a Swedish mentor for top-six center Nicklas Backstrom, so Nylander was perfect. That they already know him is just gravy. Ovechkin and (probably) Semin will be in the fold for the entirety of Nylander's contract.

By contrast, the Rangers have an older roster, and a star in Jagr who may retire in another couple of years. Gomez is preferable as a younger guy you can lock up for a long time, getting him in his prime, and is part of the team's gradual transition from an older top-six to one that is more in its prime.

There's some uncertainty with any change, but the signing is likely a good one for the Rangers. Gomez is not the same player, as they approach the game somewhat differently, but most every observer considered Gomez one of the game's elite playmakers. His bona fides are well established by now.

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09-10-2007, 10:34 PM
  #66
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The chemistry will have to be seen. Hard to predict except these guys are not young and dumb enough to let egos get in the way. Jagr and Shanny have maybe one more shot left at another cup and this is it.

Gomez is a lot younger and has been DEEP into the playoffs many times, and won TWO cups

Last year was Nylander FIRST time past the first round

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09-10-2007, 10:59 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
ok....by saying physical, i mean that he is more physical than....say jagr and nylander...which isnt very hard, but he still brings the N.A. game to a, still considered, european soft team
What? What the hell is bringing Gomez's "North American" game gonna do for the "soft Euro" style that the Rangers supposedly is?

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09-11-2007, 01:38 AM
  #68
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The overriding factor when comparing Gomez and Nylander for me was age. Both players are playmakers. Nylander is probably better controling the puck. Gomez though has speed. Nylander had chemistry with Jagr. Gomez will have to show it. Hopefully goals won't be a big problem for Gomez--nor chemistry with Jagr. One way or the other the Rangers couldn't afford--knowing what they know about Jagr probably going back to Eastern Europe in 2 seasons or less--to give Nylander 4 years at his age. Speaking of poor shooting percentages I don't think Avery's over the course of his career have been very good either. For us he looked like an effective player. Anyway speaking of our new centers it's a wait and see for us now.

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09-11-2007, 01:49 AM
  #69
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Question: If Nylander was a product of Jagr, how come Nylander increased his production when Jagr decreased his with 20 goals and some assists? If the above statement is true, shouldn't Nylander's production have decreased as well - not increase?

"Nylander was an average player before he played with Jagr." Might there be another factor here as well? Well, Nylander - the playmaker - was also playing pre-lockout hockey with average players. If there is one type of players that need quality players to thrive, it's a playmaker. And if there is one kind of player who thrives in the new NHL, it's Nylander's kind. But I guess it's aaaaall Jagr. If it was all Jagr, Straka and him wouldn't have been pissed off at first when they heard Nylander was gone.

Gomez is not better defensively and he's not a better goalscorer.

As for the "I'm glad Nylander is gone because he spinned around so much", well... did you miss the point that this was the entire first line strategy? Constant cycling and puck possession until the defense had to draw penalties or give up quality scoring chances (which is what Jagr likes)? With north-south Gomez on the first line, will the first line strategy be redrawn? To the better or to the worse?

Is Gomez better than Nylander? No. But he's younger. I - before having had the chance to see Jagr and Gomez play - am sceptic. I think we would have had a better chance at the Cup with Nylander on the team than Gomez, but I sure hope I'm wrong.


Last edited by Chimp: 09-11-2007 at 01:57 AM.
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09-11-2007, 02:45 AM
  #70
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Gomez, is younger, a better skater - much faster, much better defensively and has playoff pedigree. He has a similar style (as in pass first) to Nylander but i think he can be better.

Nylander had two good years but part of that had to do with the Rangers were underestimated.

Gomez is overpaid but he'll produce alot here. i'd take Gomez ahead of Nylander despite his past!!!!!!

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09-11-2007, 02:46 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
Question: If Nylander was a product of Jagr, how come Nylander increased his production when Jagr decreased his with 20 goals and some assists? If the above statement is true, shouldn't Nylander's production have decreased as well - not increase?

"Nylander was an average player before he played with Jagr." Might there be another factor here as well? Well, Nylander - the playmaker - was also playing pre-lockout hockey with average players. If there is one type of players that need quality players to thrive, it's a playmaker. And if there is one kind of player who thrives in the new NHL, it's Nylander's kind. But I guess it's aaaaall Jagr. If it was all Jagr, Straka and him wouldn't have been pissed off at first when they heard Nylander was gone.

Gomez is not better defensively and he's not a better goalscorer.

As for the "I'm glad Nylander is gone because he spinned around so much", well... did you miss the point that this was the entire first line strategy? Constant cycling and puck possession until the defense had to draw penalties or give up quality scoring chances (which is what Jagr likes)? With north-south Gomez on the first line, will the first line strategy be redrawn? To the better or to the worse?

Is Gomez better than Nylander? No. But he's younger. I - before having had the chance to see Jagr and Gomez play - am sceptic. I think we would have had a better chance at the Cup with Nylander on the team than Gomez, but I sure hope I'm wrong.
Chimp....

how can you not say Gomnez isnt better defensively??? Nylander has never heard the term back check before and Gomez was schooled in the best defensive system in the last 20 or so years in the NHL. He's defensively responsible and has thrived in that environment.

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Old
09-11-2007, 06:20 AM
  #72
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I would like to know how can people say Gomez is defensively better than Nylander.
Gomez played for NJ - Nylander for Chicago, Caps and mediocre-ish Rangers.

Anyone will be a better defensive player in NJ.


Gomez is younger - Nylander priced himself out of the Rangers plans.

Still in terms of talent - its Nylander for me.

What is Gomez shootout ratio compared to Nylander's. That is clutch!

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09-11-2007, 06:36 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london ranger View Post
I would like to know how can people say Gomez is defensively better than Nylander.
Gomez played for NJ - Nylander for Chicago, Caps and mediocre-ish Rangers.

Anyone will be a better defensive player in NJ.


Gomez is younger - Nylander priced himself out of the Rangers plans.

Still in terms of talent - its Nylander for me.

What is Gomez shootout ratio compared to Nylander's. That is clutch!
Sorry London Ranger, but clutch is coming up big in playoffs and with 2 rings and a large role in atleast one of them Gomez wins out. His defensive conscience and speed help him be a better defensive player and whilst i really liked Nylander i dont think he could even pronounce the word back check nevermind do it. he was lazy defensively and thats something Gomez isnt. He may have been forced into having a defensive conscience but he still has one!

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09-11-2007, 06:41 AM
  #74
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I have a ton of respect for what nylander did here. But I am also very excited to see Gomez come. The kid is still only 27 years old, is a winner and a very good center to boot.

If I'm the coach, I play Gomez with Shanahan and Drury with Jagr and Straka. To me I just envision those combinations more suited to each other, though you can't really go wrong either way.

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09-11-2007, 06:49 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas Sandstrom 28 View Post
I have a ton of respect for what nylander did here. But I am also very excited to see Gomez come. The kid is still only 27 years old, is a winner and a very good center to boot.

If I'm the coach, I play Gomez with Shanahan and Drury with Jagr and Straka. To me I just envision those combinations more suited to each other, though you can't really go wrong either way.
i think Drury will play with Shanny but i agree, i think both centers are interchangable and that has to be a good thing?!

i too enjoyed watching Nylander and thought he was an excellent Ranger.
However what he was looking for was too much and i'd rather invest in a player like Gomez long term.
He has the better all round package and for me, being competent in all facets of the game is important for your top line/2nd line center.

Thank you Nylander but bring on Gomez!!!!!!!!!!

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