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Gomez really better then Nylander

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09-11-2007, 07:56 AM
  #76
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Offensivly I think Nyls is he best right now. People say that he only have had success with JJ, and that might be the case, but he is also the only player Nyls have played with after the crackdown and the redline was removed.

Though Gomez is defenitly better defensivly then Nyls is. Defense is just as important as offense.

Though the big deal breaker with Nyls is what many have pointed - 2-4 years from now, who will be better, Gomez or Nyls? I think its very likly that Gomez will be better.

Also, with someone like Gomez you can always hope that he got another gear in him. This is a new situation for him. He is still pretty young. Just like Nyls did something with his career in older days, its possible that Gomez also will take another step. There are many examples like that.

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09-11-2007, 07:58 AM
  #77
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When it comes down to it, I think Nylander would have been better on the top line for the next two years than either of the centers that we just acquired. He was awesome, and truly did work so well in the Rangers gameplan of cycling and possession. So I believe the first line actually took a hit with the signings, but to have a #1 center around for 7 years in very valuable. And then on top of that, the drastic improvement made to the second line by playing one of those two centers next to Shanny is enormous. I think net the Rangers improved by having two top lines now even though the first line got a little bit worse. And not only that, the future of this team is much more secure than it was. Pretty impressive by Sather, giving them a better chance at the cup, spreading out the offense and securing the future all with two signings and one release.

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09-11-2007, 08:03 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Offensivly I think Nyls is he best right now. People say that he only have had success with JJ, and that might be the case, but he is also the only player Nyls have played with after the crackdown and the redline was removed.

Though Gomez is defenitly better defensivly then Nyls is. Defense is just as important as offense.

Though the big deal breaker with Nyls is what many have pointed - 2-4 years from now, who will be better, Gomez or Nyls? I think its very likly that Gomez will be better.

Also, with someone like Gomez you can always hope that he got another gear in him. This is a new situation for him. He is still pretty young. Just like Nyls did something with his career in older days, its possible that Gomez also will take another step. There are many examples like that.
Ola,

what excites me most about Gomez is not only his speed but above all his talent levels and up side.

With all due respect to NJ, if he can score 84 points in a season in such a defensive scheme on an at times limited squad talent wise, then on such an offensively better side such as the Rangers project to be, he could score alot more.

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09-11-2007, 08:09 AM
  #79
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Gomez could be better then Nylander. Than again, maybe not. Gomez might be better than, then he is now.

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09-11-2007, 08:12 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
Ola,

what excites me most about Gomez is not only his speed but above all his talent levels and up side.

With all due respect to NJ, if he can score 84 points in a season in such a defensive scheme on an at times limited squad talent wise, then on such an offensively better side such as the Rangers project to be, he could score alot more.
He could, but the Rangers did employ a very similar system to the Devils in the second half last season, maybe with a bit more firepower and a bit more pinching. But with a goaltender like Brodeur or Lundy it is a very smart system to employ and the Rangers will probably play very similar this coming season as well, which is why Gomer may fit in perfectly. He put up 84 points when that top line gelled like no other, remember Gionta was scoring 48 goals that season as well. I don't expect that will ever happen again and honestly am amazed it ever did. Gomer has the ability to put up numbers in our system, but don't expect him to change all that much.

That said, I don't think we need him to be an 80 - 90 point player. If he scored 75 points and was a +30, I would be ecstatic.

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09-11-2007, 08:14 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by bogans View Post
He could, but the Rangers did employ a very similar system to the Devils in the second half last season, maybe with a bit more firepower and a bit more pinching. But with a goaltender like Brodeur or Lundy it is a very smart system to employ and the Rangers will probably play very similar this coming season as well, which is why Gomer may fit in perfectly. He put up 84 points when that top line gelled like no other, remember Gionta was scoring 48 goals that season as well. I don't expect that will ever happen again and honestly am amazed it ever did. Gomer has the ability to put up numbers in our system, but don't expect him to change all that much.

That said, I don't think we need him to be an 80 - 90 point player. If he scored 75 points and was a +30, I would be ecstatic.
if he gets 25 goals 75 points and a +30 i too would be very happy. i just think, that with linemates like JAgr and in a better offensively skilled team (no matter the system) he has the ability to put up more than the 84 points he once did....

If he gets just 50 and we win a cup i'd settle for that!!!!!!!

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09-11-2007, 08:16 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
if he gets 25 goals 75 points and a +30 i too would be very happy. i just think, that with linemates like JAgr and in a better offensively skilled team (no matter the system) he has the ability to put up more than the 84 points he once did....

If he gets just 50 and we win a cup i'd settle for that!!!!!!!
You and me both buddy!!

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09-11-2007, 08:17 AM
  #83
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If it was just a year deal for this year, then yeah I probably would have picked Nylander because he has proven chemistry with Jagr. But a 5 year deal for Gomez vs. a 4 year deal for Nylander is an absolute no brainer. Nylander could be broken down by year 3, where as Gomez will just be hitting is prime.

Not to mention its unlikely there will be a UFA center of Gomez' caliber in 2 years.

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09-11-2007, 08:21 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JohnnyChoice View Post
If it was just a year deal for this year, then yeah I probably would have picked Nylander because he has proven chemistry with Jagr. But a 5 year deal for Gomez vs. a 4 year deal for Nylander is an absolute no brainer. Nylander could be broken down by year 3, where as Gomez will just be hitting is prime.

Not to mention its unlikely there will be a UFA center of Gomez' caliber in 2 years.
all of that is spot on JC.

The fact that so many of the upper tier potential UFA's have been locked up ahead of their FA chance make our signing of Drury/Gomez that much better. When players like Sakic or Sundin eventually retire (cant be that long?!) then those teams will struggle to fill the spots through FA and will end up having to overpay through a trade to get the right man.

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09-11-2007, 08:24 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyChoice View Post
If it was just a year deal for this year, then yeah I probably would have picked Nylander because he has proven chemistry with Jagr. But a 5 year deal for Gomez vs. a 4 year deal for Nylander is an absolute no brainer. Nylander could be broken down by year 3, where as Gomez will just be hitting is prime.

Not to mention its unlikely there will be a UFA center of Gomez' caliber in 2 years.
To be correct, Gomez signed a 7 year deal, not a 5 year deal.

But I agree that Nylander for 4 years is nuts.

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09-11-2007, 08:29 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
To be correct, Gomez signed a 7 year deal, not a 5 year deal.

But I agree that Nylander for 4 years is nuts.
Wow I forgot it was 7 years, but even so Gomez will be about the age that Nylander is now when that deal expires.

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09-11-2007, 08:43 AM
  #87
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Wow I forgot it was 7 years, but even so Gomez will be about the age that Nylander is now when that deal expires.
That's exactly the point. Gomez will be the same age at Nylander is now and Nylander will be 38 when his deal expires.

Drury signed a 5 year deal.

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09-11-2007, 08:43 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by JohnnyChoice View Post
Wow I forgot it was 7 years, but even so Gomez will be about the age that Nylander is now when that deal expires.
add to that even at 34 i expect Gomez to be alot quicker than Nylander is/was...

Some players can play past a certain age and some cant. im not sure Nylander (in the 'new' nhl) will be able to keep up the pace in 2 years.

I expect Gomez will be able to do just that when he hits the end of the contract.

Nylander has obvious hand skills etc but it isnt always about that.

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09-11-2007, 08:56 AM
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Without question, that is not Gomez. Why do people perpetuate these ideas about Gomez without having watched him play? There is no physical element to his game. If you jab him in the face, sure, he'll jab back. If you push him, he'll push back. But he is regularly a soft player. It's not a knock. That's just the type of player he is. He isn't a very good forechecker. He's not strong. He's not big. He has no presence in front of the net.

Where does this "Gomez is physical" idea stem from? It's a very interesting anomaly. Neither during the regular season, vast majority of playoffs games, nor in international competition has he shown this "physical" game. Nor has he ever been strong on the defensive side of the puck. I'll tell you, people are really going to be surprised with his actual game once he starts playing here. Because apparently the scouting report by way to many people is "great scorer; very fast; physical game; hard nosed; very good defensively; good leader". People are going to be like, "what happened to his game? Must be the coaching."
Most people here have seen and know what kind of game Gomez has, but now that's he a Ranger, the perception of him has changed or it's a lot of wishful thinking. I've heard things about him on this board from playing on the PK, to taking early shootouts to being a physical player. If this is what Ranger fan expect they will be highly disappointed. His game is skating and passing. If that's all they expect, they will be delighted. And if he scores more than 20 goals, it’s an added bonus.

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09-11-2007, 08:57 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
Most people here have seen and know what kind of game Gomez has, but now that's he a Ranger, the perception of him has changed or it's a lot of wishful thinking. I've heard things about him on this board from playing on the PK, to taking early shootouts to being a physical player. If this is what Ranger fan expect they will be highly disappointed. His game is skating and passing. If that's all they expect, they will be delighted. And if he scores more than 20 goals, it’s an added bonus.
If he scores more than 20 goals I would call it a Jagr bonus

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09-11-2007, 09:00 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
Most people here have seen and know what kind of game Gomez has, but now that's he a Ranger, the perception of him has changed or it's a lot of wishful thinking. I've heard things about him on this board from playing on the PK, to taking early shootouts to being a physical player. If this is what Ranger fan expect they will be highly disappointed. His game is skating and passing. If that's all they expect, they will be delighted. And if he scores more than 20 goals, it’s an added bonus.
20 goals, 55 assists, good speed, forechecking and solid D is what i expect. He improves our team and adds another dimension to it with his speed which is clearly an upgreade over Nylander.

I dont expect any particular physicality from him and have always thought we overpaid for him...but i do think he's an excellent addition.

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09-11-2007, 09:11 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
20 goals, 55 assists, good speed, forechecking and solid D is what i expect. He improves our team and adds another dimension to it with his speed which is clearly an upgreade over Nylander.

I dont expect any particular physicality from him and have always thought we overpaid for him...but i do think he's an excellent addition.
20 goals 55, for 75 points? Thats about what to expect... i think he'll average closer to 80-85 a season, with a couple 100 point seasons perhaps.

In the short term, i'm not sure he'll be that much more productive for you guys than Nylander. I think Nylander was underrated by your fans.

But in the long run, he's a better choice. You guys definitely paid too much for him, and he can be a little bit of a princess at times (Him and avery can go trollin' for bootie on broadway together).

He has a lot of potential to be great, but justas easily can flop. Eitherway, he won't do any worse than he has this past season. he's pretty durable too. A bit of a gamble for that price, though.

If I'm on a Rags fan, I'm excited about Drury more than Gomez. While Gomez has the potential to put up more points than Drury, you know you're going to get consistent great play out of Drury (even if his production is a little lower)

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09-11-2007, 09:18 AM
  #93
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Nylander is going to have an amazing year playing with AO, he will probably help AO up over the 100p plateau again. I think Nylander is a little bit underrated, he was a good player for the Rangers and there is going to be a point this season where we are screaming for him to come buck.

Gomez on the other hand seems motivated to play here, from the interviews i've read and watched. I am not too worried about chemistry with Jagr I think they will mesh well maybe not instantly though. All any player that plays with Jagr needs to know is get him the puck, other than that I think you'll see Jagr get annoyed if Gomez decides to play dump and chase that isn't Jagr's style. But then again if it's Gomez dumping and chasing setting Jagr up on the half boards then it might work.

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09-11-2007, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
20 goals 55, for 75 points? Thats about what to expect... i think he'll average closer to 80-85 a season, with a couple 100 point seasons perhaps.

In the short term, i'm not sure he'll be that much more productive for you guys than Nylander. I think Nylander was underrated by your fans.

But in the long run, he's a better choice. You guys definitely paid too much for him, and he can be a little bit of a princess at times (Him and avery can go trollin' for bootie on broadway together).

He has a lot of potential to be great, but justas easily can flop. Eitherway, he won't do any worse than he has this past season. he's pretty durable too. A bit of a gamble for that price, though.

If I'm on a Rags fan, I'm excited about Drury more than Gomez. While Gomez has the potential to put up more points than Drury, you know you're going to get consistent great play out of Drury (even if his production is a little lower)
i think he'll avergae in the 80's too, but i expect at least 20 and 55/season.

He and Avery can have all the wild times they can manage so long as they play well on the ice...

I dont think that many Rangers fans undersestimated MN, i just think people need to appreciate what he did WHILST still seeing he had flaws... after all most players do.

Gomez is overpaid, but if we were to win a cup during his time here wont that be worth it??!

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09-11-2007, 09:42 AM
  #95
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He could, but the Rangers did employ a very similar system to the Devils in the second half last season, maybe with a bit more firepower and a bit more pinching. But with a goaltender like Brodeur or Lundy it is a very smart system to employ and the Rangers will probably play very similar this coming season as well, which is why Gomer may fit in perfectly. He put up 84 points when that top line gelled like no other, remember Gionta was scoring 48 goals that season as well. I don't expect that will ever happen again and honestly am amazed it ever did. Gomer has the ability to put up numbers in our system, but don't expect him to change all that much.

That said, I don't think we need him to be an 80 - 90 point player. If he scored 75 points and was a +30, I would be ecstatic.
Not really. I don't think you can play more offense then what we did. You can play more offensivly, no doubt, but if you do that you'll end up playing allot in your own end instead...

We play a pretty unique style, where the center got a really big role with the puck. I think a good example of that is how Matt Cullen first comments after getting traded was how he didn't feel comfortable with our system, that from a vet with allot of experience.

The fundamentals of our game is allot more about holding on to the puck and controll the tempo of the game then what it is for NJD. NJD have always had a puckmoving side to their game, unlike teams like for example Calgary/Anaheim before the lockout. Though their game plan was still last season to take advantage of the other teams misstakes, and cut down on their own.

On the defensive side of things Gomez will still have a responsibility. Though winning the puck back faster have never hurt anyones offensive game. And in the offensive game Gomez will have a big responsibilty taking the puck up ice, gooing up against collected - but stretched out - D's. That will be a big diffrence for him. Something Cullen never really could handle. Though I don't got any worries about it when it come to Gomez, he sees the ice allot better then Cullen did...

Playing for us Gomez will have the puck allot more then he did for NJD, the chances he will get might not be as good as they where in avg for NJD, since we don't relay on fast breaks to the same extent, but he will have a bigger oppertunity to make a impact here.

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09-11-2007, 09:43 AM
  #96
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Nylander is going to have an amazing year playing with AO, he will probably help AO up over the 100p plateau again. I think Nylander is a little bit underrated, he was a good player for the Rangers and there is going to be a point this season where we are screaming for him to come buck.
Except that there is a damn good chance Nicklas Backstrom is going to be AO's center.

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09-11-2007, 09:52 AM
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Except that there is a damn good chance Nicklas Backstrom is going to be AO's center.
i have a friend who lives in DC and is a cap fan and every indication is that Backstrom will start the year on the 2nd line to try and ease the pressure and minutes on him. Yes, he's very much NHL rady, but it cant hurt to acclimatise him first.

He'll get to play with Semin, and Nylander will get to ice with AO. That will be beneficial to both Nylander and AO, as AO will finally get a guy to provide the passes and Nylanders numbers might even go up by playing with AO.

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09-11-2007, 10:04 AM
  #98
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Nylander is going to have an amazing year playing with AO, he will probably help AO up over the 100p plateau again. I think Nylander is a little bit underrated, he was a good player for the Rangers and there is going to be a point this season where we are screaming for him to come buck.

Gomez on the other hand seems motivated to play here, from the interviews i've read and watched. I am not too worried about chemistry with Jagr I think they will mesh well maybe not instantly though. All any player that plays with Jagr needs to know is get him the puck, other than that I think you'll see Jagr get annoyed if Gomez decides to play dump and chase that isn't Jagr's style. But then again if it's Gomez dumping and chasing setting Jagr up on the half boards then it might work.
AO is still extremely young - and while he is a extreme talent - I do think he last season played with his head down a bit too much; there was allot of skating extremely fast and shooting at every thing that moved on the ice, and not much creativity.

That he played like that in Washington the last 2 seasons is not strange, he have not had much back up and have been forced to do allot out of nothing. Its perfectly understandable that he have kept his game "simple".

Though I was alittle more suprised when that style carried over to the WCHs. For a pretty stocked Russian team every play suddenly didn't go through AO, he didn't get every pass on the PP no matter how bad angle he had ect; and suddenly he barley got involved at all, he had 1 goal and 2 assists in 8 games, of which like 4-5 was against b-level teams. And AO certainly gave it all in the WCH, he wheren't there on vacation so to speak.

I think AO's career could have taken a pretty big hit if he was left without any good/great linemates in Was a while longer. He doesn't really play a snipers game, like a Brett Hull for example, he doesn't got that timming where he seeks out open ice at the right time ect, his game have been optimized to create as much as possible out of nothing.

It will take a while before he gets used to playing with a creative center like Nylander, before he learns to think 3-4 steps ahead instead of just the shortest route to the net. Though at the same time I think that it at the same time might be what saves his career from just beeing a great player to maybe competing with a Sid Crosby down the road. I don't expect Nyls and AO to hit it off right away, I wouldn't pick Nyls for a fantasy league for example. On bad nights Nyls will be looking to make advanced offensive plays, and AO will put the puck on the net right away without understanding what Nyls had in mind. They will have kind of the same chemistry as Jagr and Shanahan have had at times.

Though when/if Nyls can get AO offensive game more advanced I can see both taking off, especially AO. Though that could take awhile.

BTW, I am 99% sure that due to the above listed reasons Nyls will play with AO, not Bäckström. I think they really really wanted a vet who could play some with AO.


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09-11-2007, 10:18 AM
  #99
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Average player before Jagr? Nylander has been playing most of his time in Calgary and Chicago... I'd say it's more a "wich team have they played for" question...

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09-11-2007, 10:24 AM
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Great so then we can expect Nylander to returnt to his previous form this season.

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