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Gomez really better then Nylander

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Old
09-11-2007, 10:29 AM
  #101
Ola
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Originally Posted by bogans View Post
If he scores more than 20 goals I would call it a Jagr bonus
Great point!

I am not expecting it, but I think Gomez will have a great oppertunity here in NY to really take that next step in his development.

To go from someone who maybe is a top 20-25 center in this league to someone who is a top 10-15 center. Gomez IMO have clearly been a step behind guys like Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zettberg so far in his career.

If he can "win" a spot with Jagr and develop chemistry with him it will automatically jump start his career offensivly. If Jagr is healty, get his shoulder in order so that he can shoot properly again, and have a great year that will automatically mean 90 pts for Gomez.

First of all that would be very valueble for him from a education point of view. You pick up allot of things from your line-/teammates. I for example really doubt Jagr would be so smart and extremely effective offensivly if he didn't grow up watching/playing with Mario night after night. Second, playing offense in the NHL gives you practise at playing offense in the NHL. Its not easy to practise that in other ways then dooing it. Hockey is so much about instincts and reflexes; which can give the impression that its something you are born with. Though I don't think thats the case. Mario Lemiuxes hockeysense/instincts/reflexes looked "out of this world" when he came back from his retirement, he almost avg 2 ppg in the most defensive era of the game, at a time where he hardly dominated with his speed/stickhandling/shoot. I don't think he was born with that hockey sense, I think he developed it while dominating the league with his speed/stickhandling/shot in the 80's. Thats why it will be so hard to match. In a much smaller scale, Gomez will get that if he ends up playing with Jagr. He will get to play allot more offense then he would almost anywhere else in this league. And that will develop his instincts/hockeyse sense ect more.

I am hoping that that will push him up a notch so that he becomes a top 10-15 center in this league.

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09-11-2007, 10:33 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I am hoping that that will push him up a notch so that he becomes a top 10-15 center in this league.
I already consider him a Top 15, hes underrated imo, but he will do fine in NY as long as he doesnt put too much pressure on himself and trust his skills.

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09-11-2007, 10:39 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by TheSchwab View Post
I already consider him a Top 15, hes underrated imo, but he will do fine in NY as long as he doesnt put too much pressure on himself and trust his skills.
1. Crosby
2. Thornton
3. Malkin
4. Spezza
5. Lecavalier
6. Briere
7. E. Staal
8. Datsyuk
9. Savard
10. Jokinen
11. Marleau
12. Zetterberg
13. Richards
14. H. Sedin
15. Sakic
16. Kopitar
17. Gomez

This is my rough rankings, the numbers mean nothing and some people should probably be moved up or done a slot or two, but I don't think Gomer should be considered a top 15 center quite yet. He could be if he gels with Jags

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09-11-2007, 12:00 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by bogans View Post

This is my rough rankings, the numbers mean nothing and some people should probably be moved up or done a slot or two, but I don't think Gomer should be considered a top 15 center quite yet. He could be if he gels with Jags
I think he's a top 15. And all this love for Spezza, after looking like he wanted nothing to do with playing the Ducks in the finals. That's one thing I can say about Gomez, in his 7 years with the Devils he has never looked scared of anyone.

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09-11-2007, 12:10 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
I

. That's one thing I can say about Gomez, in his 7 years with the Devils he has never looked scared of anyone.

which is a point that shouldn't be overlooked as when you sign a $51 million dollar deal to play in NYC you better have the confidence and swagger not to wilt and Scott's personality seems to be up to par in that regard.

And I think what you said earlier about our expectaions is spot on as well BD, most of us are simply expecting the premier playmaker and puckcarrier and I think that is what we'll get which fits like a glove for a team so heavy on goalscoring wingers who need his playmaking and puckcarrying.

And with the makeup of the team I on't see the need to try to transform or change expectations into having Scott become some sort of PKer or shutdown center..not what we signed him for and certainly not what anyone should expect as you said.

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09-11-2007, 12:30 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
if he gets 25 goals 75 points and a +30 i too would be very happy. i just think, that with linemates like JAgr and in a better offensively skilled team (no matter the system) he has the ability to put up more than the 84 points he once did....

If he gets just 50 and we win a cup i'd settle for that!!!!!!!
at 7.5 million dollars, if he puts up 25 goals and 75 points playing with either jagr or shanny i will be PISSED OFF. Unless of course we win the cup.



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09-11-2007, 12:31 PM
  #107
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zetterburg is a lw and kopitar is not better than gomez....that puts him at 14...thats a very broad list, what are you looking at, best passer?....most clutch?...best defensively?...best leader?.......you have to say which one you are looking at because if its just points then yea a devil most likely wont be high on that list

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09-11-2007, 12:54 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
zetterburg is a lw and kopitar is not better than gomez....that puts him at 14...thats a very broad list, what are you looking at, best passer?....most clutch?...best defensively?...best leader?.......you have to say which one you are looking at because if its just points then yea a devil most likely wont be high on that list
Yeah, but at the same time when the gooing get tough I think you would find 30 gm and coaches in the league who would pick Sundin and BrindAmour short term over Gomez.

Then there are allot of guys who I think atleast is in the same cathergory, like Koivu and McDonald for example...

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09-11-2007, 01:03 PM
  #109
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Gomez is a great addition, I'll wait for the year to end to make my final judgement on who is better but long term Gomez is. Gomez had a lower production last year due to the fact that he played on a defensive team that scored the least amount of goals last year.

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09-11-2007, 01:24 PM
  #110
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I recently picked up the 2007-08 Yearbook edition of the hockey news and there is a chart here showing the top assist totals over the past 3 years. And only 10 players have racked up more helpers than Gomez. (Nylander is not one of them)

1) Joe Thornton 240
2) Jags 178
3) Martin St. Louis 176
4) Joe Sakic 175
5) Daniel Alfredsson 166
6) Brad Richards 166
7) Alex Tanguay 162
8) Henrick Sedin 159
9) Jason Spezza 157
10) Pavel Datsyuk 157
11) Scott Gomez 154

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09-11-2007, 01:58 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
I think he's a top 15. And all this love for Spezza, after looking like he wanted nothing to do with playing the Ducks in the finals. That's one thing I can say about Gomez, in his 7 years with the Devils he has never looked scared of anyone.

Agreed. Admittedly, that look of smug arrogance is one reason I never liked him as a Ranger fan. Still, I have no worries about him being successful as a Ranger and as Jagr's center.

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09-11-2007, 03:27 PM
  #112
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To all who keep arguing that Gomez is ultimately better because of his age and the fact that he will help the team after Jagr leaves: Do you all really think that if the Rangers do not win a Stanley Cup before Jagr retires that he will be considered a successful signing?

It's nice to talk about the future, but in the end, that's what this organization is aiming for--having Jagr hoist the Stanley Cup. Not Gomez, not Drury, not even Staal. That's what it's all about in Sather's mind.

And there's one more thing to consider: if the Rangers don't win the Stanley Cup before Jagr retires, Sather will probably stick around a lot longer, getting more and more desperate each year. Something to look forward to!

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09-11-2007, 03:38 PM
  #113
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And there's one more thing to consider: if the Rangers don't win the Stanley Cup before Jagr retires, Sather will probably stick around a lot longer, getting more and more desperate each year. Something to look forward to!
He wont have to get more desperate each year if the rangers system pans out like we all hope it does. Also, i dont count desperation as signing players like Gomez in the prime of their careers.

EDIT: i do agree we overpaid for Gomez however


Last edited by Mixtures89: 09-11-2007 at 03:43 PM.
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09-11-2007, 03:53 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
To all who keep arguing that Gomez is ultimately better because of his age and the fact that he will help the team after Jagr leaves: Do you all really think that if the Rangers do not win a Stanley Cup before Jagr retires that he will be considered a successful signing?

It's nice to talk about the future, but in the end, that's what this organization is aiming for--having Jagr hoist the Stanley Cup. Not Gomez, not Drury, not even Staal. That's what it's all about in Sather's mind.

And there's one more thing to consider: if the Rangers don't win the Stanley Cup before Jagr retires, Sather will probably stick around a lot longer, getting more and more desperate each year. Something to look forward to!
winning a stanley cup while maintaining the youth in the organization makes any free agent signing a good signing. the problem is, thats the ONLY way i would see the gomez signing being a good one. if he wins the cup at least once, but preferably more during his tenure here.

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09-11-2007, 04:29 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
To all who keep arguing that Gomez is ultimately better because of his age and the fact that he will help the team after Jagr leaves: Do you all really think that if the Rangers do not win a Stanley Cup before Jagr retires that he will be considered a successful signing?

It's nice to talk about the future, but in the end, that's what this organization is aiming for--having Jagr hoist the Stanley Cup. Not Gomez, not Drury, not even Staal. That's what it's all about in Sather's mind.

And there's one more thing to consider: if the Rangers don't win the Stanley Cup before Jagr retires, Sather will probably stick around a lot longer, getting more and more desperate each year. Something to look forward to!
Ultimately you cant measure his success purely in Jagr's years on the same team. Gomez is Gomez and Jagr is JAgr... if they have success together then great.

Gomez can be considered a success even if this team didnt win a cup in his time here. A perennial contender that wins divsions and goes deep every playoff season is a successful team, the cup being the icing on the cake and the ultimate sucess - not the only success. Otherwise every player who signed for a team who didnt win a cup would be a failure!!!!!!!!!

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09-11-2007, 08:16 PM
  #116
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I'm little curious about one thing on the Ranger board. There seems to be more excitement or at least interest about Gomez than Drury. Hardly any threads on the guy. I'm a little surprised, since he might be the better of the two siginings.

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09-11-2007, 08:27 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
I'm little curious about one thing on the Ranger board. There seems to be more excitement or at least interest about Gomez than Drury. Hardly any threads on the guy. I'm a little surprised, since he might be the better of the two siginings.
Ehh, I think it would work both ways to be honest, it's probably only natural.

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09-11-2007, 09:10 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
I'm little curious about one thing on the Ranger board. There seems to be more excitement or at least interest about Gomez than Drury. Hardly any threads on the guy. I'm a little surprised, since he might be the better of the two siginings.
because most of us have a much much much bigger problem with the rangers signing gomez than drury. i dont like the drury signing (contract, not the player) but i absolutely ABHOR the gomez signing (again his contract, not the player) with every fiber of my being. some are like me, some are milder, but its fairly universal, with people preferring the drury signing more than gomez.

its easier to complain than to hold hands and sing koombaya re: drury.

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09-11-2007, 09:44 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
because most of us have a much much much bigger problem with the rangers signing gomez than drury. i dont like the drury signing (contract, not the player) but i absolutely ABHOR the gomez signing (again his contract, not the player) with every fiber of my being. some are like me, some are milder, but its fairly universal, with people preferring the drury signing more than gomez.

its easier to complain than to hold hands and sing koombaya re: drury.
Nah man, the Drury signing you should thrilled about, it's the Gomez contract you should be apprehensive about.

I think both of them will help the Rangers bigtime, but IMO more Drury than Gomez.

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09-11-2007, 09:47 PM
  #120
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Nah man, the Drury signing you should thrilled about, it's the Gomez contract you should be apprehensive about.

I think both of them will help the Rangers bigtime, but IMO more Drury than Gomez.
i LOVE drury the player, and i really like gomez the player. but neither of them are worth 7 mil per. not by a long shot. not by a long long long shot. not by a shot from California to New York by way of Antarctica.

those 2 contracts are just disgusting.

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09-11-2007, 09:52 PM
  #121
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i LOVE drury the player, and i really like gomez the player. but neither of them are worth 7 mil per. not by a long shot. not by a long long long shot. not by a shot from California to New York by way of Antarctica.

those 2 contracts are just disgusting.
I don't see it that way, Drury is a player you can't judge his value by numbers alone. Gomez you can pretty much, and Drury is a VERY special player, I mean the kid has shone in the tough sportslight before even he was a teenager.

Some people are just born to be winners, and for me they can come at no cost.

Trust me, if you want a Stanley Cup, you want him.

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09-11-2007, 09:54 PM
  #122
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all we can really do is wait and be optimistic that both signings pan out very well. For all we know they might end up being bargains. I figure that Dany Heatly is gonna get probably around 10mil a year, and I bet next offseason someone targets Spezza with around that in an offer sheet if the Sens don't resign him during the season. I'm not trying to compare Drury and Gomez to Heatly and Spezza but thats just how much more i figure them getting paid.

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09-11-2007, 09:54 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
I'm little curious about one thing on the Ranger board. There seems to be more excitement or at least interest about Gomez than Drury. Hardly any threads on the guy. I'm a little surprised, since he might be the better of the two siginings.
I think alot of people feel like they know what they'll get out of Drury, 2 way play, 30-35 goals and 65-70pts some leadership, hopefully some more clutch play and just an all-around contributing member who plays a big role but doesn't have to be the superstar with all the skill players we have up front.

I think with Gomez the buzz is because he'll likely be Jagr's center and will be relied upon to fill a specific role of being the primary offensive force at center so I think there is more anticipation to see how he performs in that role and the fact that he's coming from the Devils and the questions about how he played in the Devs system as opposed to how he'll play in a less restrictive one adds to the buzz.

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09-11-2007, 09:54 PM
  #124
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I don't see it that way, Drury is a player you can't judge his value by numbers alone. Gomez you can pretty much Drury, and Drury is a VERY special player, I mean the kid has shone in the tough sportslight before even he was a teenager.

Some people are just born to be winners, and for me they can come at no cost.

Trust me, if you want a Stanley Cup, you want him.
Meh, I get that some things you cant put a price tag on, and "Clutch" might be at the very top of that list. With that said, im a very statistically motivated person, and I truly believe in paying the best statistical people the best dollars. You wanna give Henrik 10 years at 7 per, im ok with that. Jagr in his prime something like that, sign me up. But Drury isnt a 7 million dollar player. Id be ok giving him 5.5 at the most, and Gomez, I would give 5 even.

I havent run the comparitive numbers, but those are fairly generous when you consider their production.

Iginla got 7ish, Thornton got 7ish, jagr gets 8ish.

Drury and Gomez get 7+?

YUCK

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09-11-2007, 10:03 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Meh, I get that some things you cant put a price tag on, and "Clutch" might be at the very top of that list. With that said, im a very statistically motivated person, and I truly believe in paying the best statistical people the best dollars. You wanna give Henrik 10 years at 7 per, im ok with that. Jagr in his prime something like that, sign me up. But Drury isnt a 7 million dollar player. Id be ok giving him 5.5 at the most, and Gomez, I would give 5 even.

I havent run the comparitive numbers, but those are fairly generous when you consider their production.

Iginla got 7ish, Thornton got 7ish, jagr gets 8ish.

Drury and Gomez get 7+?

YUCK

Drury yes, Gomez no.



We had one of the best "special" players of all time, Claude Lemieux.

In 1995 when we won our first he won the Conn Smythe - and he got greedy. So Lou traded him away and the next year we missed the playoffs, the next year we won one round and the following two we were eliminated in the 1st round.

Then Lou brought him back and we won our 2nd cup.

So please trust me when I tell you these "special" players, they are more lethal in hockey than any other sport out there.

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