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Michalek or Hudler?

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Old
01-09-2004, 01:01 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birko19
Let me start by saying that draft positions do not matter at all, Brad Richards was drafted 64th overall in the 98 draft while Manny Malhutra went 7th overall, I think we all know who's the better one.

Like somone said, comparing Hudler to Michalek is like comparing apples to oranges, Hudler is a more talented player who has a better offencive upside, while Michalek is a better all-round player.

If you ask me, I think Michalek is a safer choice, but not necessary the better one, he looks like a Bobbly Holik type of player with better skating and similar type of numbers (50-60 points), while Hudler is a risk, but could turn out the better one if he meets his top potential, if Hudler ever reaches that level, I see him becoming a 70+ point player playing a Larionov type of game, only with more talent and skill.
So draft doesnt matter, does it. Then why even have a draft, or why even have a draft with the poorer teams picking before the better teams?
And I have more question for you. Why did Hudler go in the late 2nd & Michalek go early 1st? And furthur , what has Hudler exactly done in the last 18 months to make him such a greater prospect than his draft position deserves.

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01-09-2004, 01:02 PM
  #27
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Michalek easily

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01-09-2004, 01:50 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birko19
playing a Larionov type of game, only with more talent and skill.
Is that the Larionov who is in his forties or the Larionov in his prime? For if you mean the latter I'd say you might be somewhat optimistical...

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01-09-2004, 01:55 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
So draft doesnt matter, does it. Then why even have a draft, or why even have a draft with the poorer teams picking before the better teams?
And I have more question for you. Why did Hudler go in the late 2nd & Michalek go early 1st? And furthur , what has Hudler exactly done in the last 18 months to make him such a greater prospect than his draft position deserves.
hudler went in the second round for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only.
1. he's small
2. he was injury prone that year and looks like he still is (besides this year, last year he was hurt and his draft year too)

those are the only 2 reasons. Offensively he's got skill, look at his AHL numbers if you dont believe me...

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01-09-2004, 02:11 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by X-SHARKIE
Michalek had 2 goals including a beuty against the AVS in the pre season.
did you see Hudler's goal in the WJC's?

that was beyond beautiful....

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01-09-2004, 02:14 PM
  #31
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As a Sharks fan I was going to stay out of this, but I can't. If your saying Hudler over Michalek it can only be that you are a Red Wings fan and even then a dilusional one, Now dont get me wrong, I like Hudler. He's a good prospect, but Michalek is one of the top 20 prospects in the league.
He scored 2 game winners in pre season, in 2 regular season games he scored a goal, he really impressed me, not only is he probally the best two way playing forward prospect in the NHL, with the ability to win Selke some day, he has alot of good offensive attributes. I think he well score 60-70 points some day, He's now 6-2 220 pounds, and mabey even more muscular now with his many days in the weight room with rehab, Doug WIlson said he never seen anyone rehab so hard, Michalek has that Maturity, and CHarector that coaches love, Both on and off the ice. He has a very hard and accurate wrist shot, he just needs to use it more, he can stick handle in trafic, and just needs to hit the net hard, some good coaching and Michalek well be one of the hotest young players in the game, i'm really sold on him. Theres just not much to not like about him, Sharks coaching staff tooled some good things into Marleaus game, shoot more,hit the net harder, he did. If they can get patty to, Expect Michalek to do the same, I didnt even mention his deft stickhandling and passing,

Michalek is the real deal, dont let his Czech extraleague stats fool you, he was on the worst team in the league I believe, at least one of the worst, and was played on the third line, and even led his team in Plus/Minus. He's a doozie.

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01-09-2004, 05:17 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
So draft doesnt matter, does it. Then why even have a draft, or why even have a draft with the poorer teams picking before the better teams?
And I have more question for you. Why did Hudler go in the late 2nd & Michalek go early 1st? And furthur , what has Hudler exactly done in the last 18 months to make him such a greater prospect than his draft position deserves.
Draft only matters on the player's perfomance now, teams draft players who have the talent and are showeing these talents NOW, once a player is drafted, the team hopes this player can evolve his talent and be a star somday, then there's always those players who drop because of an injury, attitude problems or so on, for example in this year's draft O'sullivan dropped to 56th, but I believe he was better then a lot of players who were drafted ahead of him, same story with Hudler.

Both Hudler and Michalek have talent, although Hudler is more talented then Michalek, he's still a risk which brings me to why he dropped so low.

1- He had a serious neck injury before going to the draft.
2- The kid is a shrimp, he's 5-8 and shy's away from the physical game, this adds more salt to his injury since the NHL is such a physical league.
3- The kid had an attitude going into the draft, most teams didn't like that.

You add all this up and you got Hudler going at 58th overall, believe me, if Hudler had size and didn't have that neck injury, he would even challange to go top 5 in the 2002 draft, the kid reaks with talent.

Hudler was suppose to go top 15 that year, so for a guy that was suppose to go top 15 and drops this much should still have some upside, actually a lot of upside, however he's one of those miss or hit prospects, so a risk like I said.

Michalek on the other hand does'nt have the talent Hudler does, but you can bet that he's going to be a bright player in the NHL, he's a very safe pick and has the all-round tools to become a solid hockey player, this what makes Michalek a better player then Hudler.

Having said that, as a Red Wing fan I would choose Michalek myself, just because I know somday he'll be a selke winner putting up 50-60 points a season playing an all-round game, reason why I choose Michalek because he's safe and he would be a nice addition to the Red Wing future, as for Hudler, if you're one of those gamblers then go for him because he can either bloom and be better then Michalek, or bust.

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01-09-2004, 05:21 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchLeafsfan
Is that the Larionov who is in his forties or the Larionov in his prime? For if you mean the latter I'd say you might be somewhat optimistical...
No, not Larionov in his prime, Larionov in his prime was somthing else, I'm talking about Larionov in the NHL, if Hudler reaches his potential (which I hope he does), he could be a 70+ point player playing that style of game, he has TONES of skill and should be a very dangerous offencive player if he reaches that level.

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01-09-2004, 05:40 PM
  #34
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I have to say, I think Michalek is more talented then Hudler, if you disagree take one last long look at the both of them, Just because Hudler stats look better, does not mean he is more skilled, believe me, Michalek has loooooads of skill. More then we give him credit for.

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01-09-2004, 06:09 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-SHARKIE
Michalek had 2 goals including a beuty against the AVS in the pre season, and in 1 1/2 regular season games he got a goal, making all of us SHarks fans going, how did this kid only get 8 points last year? he is now 6-2 220 pounds, showing great work ethic, I think he's going to be a heck of a hockey player, 60-70 points is not out of range in his prime. But his lay away from the puck as well nocks him passed Hudler,

I like Hudler, but 30/30 NHL GM's would rather have Michalek IMO.
http://sjsharks.com/sharks2002/inter...s_100403_2.wmv

http://sjsharks.com/sharks2002/inter...s_100403_2.wmv

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01-09-2004, 07:20 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-SHARKIE
I have to say, I think Michalek is more talented then Hudler, if you disagree take one last long look at the both of them, Just because Hudler stats look better, does not mean he is more skilled, believe me, Michalek has loooooads of skill. More then we give him credit for.
I disagree, while Michalek is a talented player, Hudler just ozzes with talent, his talent level is more then Michalek's, but remember, this is the NHL and you need more then talent to be a star, while Michalek is not as talented as Hudler is, but he has those other things that Hudler does'nt have like size, speed, 2-way game and so on, these things along with his solid talent will make him a bright player, while Hudler ozzes with talent, he does'nt have those other things that Michalek has, that's what makes him a risk.

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01-09-2004, 10:08 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birko19
I disagree, while Michalek is a talented player, Hudler just ozzes with talent, his talent level is more then Michalek's, but remember, this is the NHL and you need more then talent to be a star, while Michalek is not as talented as Hudler is, but he has those other things that Hudler does'nt have like size, speed, 2-way game and so on, these things along with his solid talent will make him a bright player, while Hudler ozzes with talent, he does'nt have those other things that Michalek has, that's what makes him a risk.
Funny that size, speed, and 2-way game are not a part ot the talent by your definition. What you mean are vision or puck skills as far as I understand it. But to say that skating abilities do not belong to the talent of a player is strange.

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01-10-2004, 01:46 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Strizzi
Funny that size, speed, and 2-way game are not a part ot the talent by your definition. What you mean are vision or puck skills as far as I understand it. But to say that skating abilities do not belong to the talent of a player is strange.
Ok, then what I'm saying is Hudler has a better vision, better playmaking abilities, better puck skills, and more gifted offencivly.

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01-10-2004, 02:36 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dats-13
did you see Hudler's goal in the WJC's?

that was beyond beautiful....
If you mean the one against Ukraine, well, I already said it, it was Ukraine. It was the only game (and I saw every one of them except for the one against Switzerland) he impressed in. Two words: attitude problem.

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01-10-2004, 05:41 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Birko19
Ok, then what I'm saying is Hudler has a better vision, better playmaking abilities, better puck skills, and more gifted offencivly.
Fine, but thats like saying Peter Sarno/Marty Murray are more talented than say, Joe Thorton or Keith Tkachuk, it kinda makes the definition of talent absolutly irrelevernt when talking about a hockey player.

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01-10-2004, 06:24 AM
  #41
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To try and say Michalek is more skilled or offensively talented than Hudler at this point is a joke. If Hudler was only as talented offensively as Michalek he wouldn't have made it to Detroit's training camp let alone made the roster. His defensive deficiencies and size are such that he needs to be a great offensive player to even get a shot at the nhl, which he has. Now this is just becoming silly hype for the newer prospect, which occurs all to frequently on these boards. Noone has said Hudler is the better prospect, it's just a lot closer than this blowout you guys make it seem. To be 20 and under and in the NHL you have to be an elite prospect, both Michalek and Hudler are elite prospects. Case closed.

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01-10-2004, 06:40 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by AJ1982
To try and say Michalek is more skilled or offensively talented than Hudler at this point is a joke. If Hudler was only as talented offensively as Michalek he wouldn't have made it to Detroit's training camp let alone made the roster. His defensive deficiencies and size are such that he needs to be a great offensive player to even get a shot at the nhl, which he has. Now this is just becoming silly hype for the newer prospect, which occurs all to frequently on these boards. Noone has said Hudler is the better prospect, it's just a lot closer than this blowout you guys make it seem. To be 20 and under and in the NHL you have to be an elite prospect, both Michalek and Hudler are elite prospects. Case closed.
If Hudlers an elite prospect so are most of the 57 guys picked ahead of him.

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01-10-2004, 06:43 AM
  #43
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I think some of the Red Wings fans are to high on Hudler.

Bottom line, i'de take Michalek over Hulder any day of the week and everyone in the buisness of hocke (Gms,Coaches,Scouts) would agree with me.

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01-10-2004, 06:53 AM
  #44
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Coming up to the draft Hudler was ranked #3 or 4 Europe prospect.(also if the supposed crack down on obstruction ever happened he could be a star. But we know that will never come) It was well known he would have been a top 10 pick if he hadnt had the neck injury. Offense wise Hudler has the potential to be a first line player. Michalek on the other hand has the potential to become Lehtenian/Holik type player. It all depends what you yourself like and what the gms are looking for. Personally I think Detroit got a steal with there aging vets Hudler type ability is going to be needed. They are already filled with decent defenseive players that are not aging badly. While San Jose has decent young offensive players they needed a 2 way player with hte ability to become a Holik/Peca type. Both teams have a good player.

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01-10-2004, 10:35 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
If Hudlers an elite prospect so are most of the 57 guys picked ahead of him.
There you go with the draft order again, dude just let it go, draft order is only valid the first year or 2, after that where they were drafted means NOTHING whatsoever (example: Daigle), it's all about what they do in the big league, and so far none of Hudler nor Michalek have done anything yet, and that's maybe because they're still only 19 and 20, give them 4 or 5 years then judge who's better.

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01-10-2004, 10:38 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by AJ1982
To try and say Michalek is more skilled or offensively talented than Hudler at this point is a joke. If Hudler was only as talented offensively as Michalek he wouldn't have made it to Detroit's training camp let alone made the roster. His defensive deficiencies and size are such that he needs to be a great offensive player to even get a shot at the nhl, which he has. Now this is just becoming silly hype for the newer prospect, which occurs all to frequently on these boards. Noone has said Hudler is the better prospect, it's just a lot closer than this blowout you guys make it seem. To be 20 and under and in the NHL you have to be an elite prospect, both Michalek and Hudler are elite prospects. Case closed.
I agree.

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01-10-2004, 10:47 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Birko19
There you go with the draft order again, dude just let it go, draft order is only valid the first year or 2, .
Dude, its only been 6 months since Michlek was drafted & 18 months since Hudler was drafted.
To suggest that Hudler is anywhere near as good a prospect at this point in time is simply ludicrous.Thats like me saying Doug Lynch is as good a prospect as Dion Phaneuf or Ryan Suter.
Its absolutly ridiculous.

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01-10-2004, 11:11 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
Dude, its only been 6 months since Michlek was drafted & 18 months since Hudler was drafted.
To suggest that Hudler is anywhere near as good a prospect at this point in time is simply ludicrous.Thats like me saying Doug Lynch is as good a prospect as Dion Phaneuf or Ryan Suter.
Its absolutly ridiculous.
Hudler was drafted a year before Michalek, big deal, you make it seem like they're 5 years apart.

By the way, notice how I said Hudler is not a better prospect then Michalek? that's because I think Michalek IS the better prospect at this very moment, but you make it seem like a blowout, the way you're talking it's like comparing Super Mario to Kirk Maltby which is ludicrous.

Hudler is a solid prospect, so he didn't impress anyone in this year's WJC, but so did Fleury, if anyone takes the WJC as an indecation to Hudler's future, then Fleury will sure be a bust, but I don't see it that way with Hudler, people need to look at the bigger picture, Hudler ripped the Extra League up with his stats, and now he's playing very solid at the AHL level, not to mention he is producing points there too, he saw some ice time with the big team, did OK but just like most of the rookies out there, he still has a lot to learn in order to get there, and he has all the time in the world since he's only 19, and no, it's not like comparing Lynch to Phaneuf or Suter, it's more like comparing Hemsky or Chistov to Rick Nash, which means it's a lot closer then you guys make it seem.

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01-10-2004, 12:41 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Birko19
Hudler was drafted a year before Michalek, big deal, you make it seem like they're 5 years apart.

By the way, notice how I said Hudler is not a better prospect then Michalek? that's because I think Michalek IS the better prospect at this very moment, but you make it seem like a blowout, the way you're talking it's like comparing Super Mario to Kirk Maltby which is ludicrous.

Hudler is a solid prospect, so he didn't impress anyone in this year's WJC, but so did Fleury, if anyone takes the WJC as an indecation to Hudler's future, then Fleury will sure be a bust, but I don't see it that way with Hudler, people need to look at the bigger picture, Hudler ripped the Extra League up with his stats, and now he's playing very solid at the AHL level, not to mention he is producing points there too, he saw some ice time with the big team, did OK but just like most of the rookies out there, he still has a lot to learn in order to get there, and he has all the time in the world since he's only 19, and no, it's not like comparing Lynch to Phaneuf or Suter, it's more like comparing Hemsky or Chistov to Rick Nash, which means it's a lot closer then you guys make it seem.
Yeah, comparing Hemsky (whose proven he can produce & produce pretty well in the NHL & was a pretty high draft pick) & Chistov(high draft pick) (struggling now but actually playing in the NHL) to Nash. Nooooo, its like comparing a very high draft pick who has not proven anything one way or another (ie. Suter, Phaneuf, Michalek) to a middle/late 2nd rounder who has not proven anything one way or another (ie. Hudler, Lynch). Its not even close as to who is the better prospect presently.

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01-10-2004, 01:43 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
Yeah, comparing Hemsky (whose proven he can produce & produce pretty well in the NHL & was a pretty high draft pick) & Chistov(high draft pick) (struggling now but actually playing in the NHL) to Nash. Nooooo, its like comparing a very high draft pick who has not proven anything one way or another (ie. Suter, Phaneuf, Michalek) to a middle/late 2nd rounder who has not proven anything one way or another (ie. Hudler, Lynch). Its not even close as to who is the better prospect presently.
Ok fine, since you put it that way, compare Grigorenko (when he was 100%), to Nystom, Karlson, or whoever you wanna compare him to, ohh I guess just because he was drafted 62nd overall, that makes most prospects drafted ahead of him better, right? PLEASEEEEE, this is just some Red Wing hating going on here, I understand that Hudler is overrated and I agree on that, but to blow him out like that and say he's nowhere as good as Michalek just because he was drafted 58th overall is just too Homerish for me.

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