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Old
08-11-2008, 06:05 PM
  #201
BGDDYKWL
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For those who haven't heard, the Dbacks picked up Adam Dunn today. Love this move.

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08-11-2008, 07:12 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by BGDDYKWL View Post
For those who haven't heard, the Dbacks picked up Adam Dunn today. Love this move.
Not fond of this move. Leads MLB in homers, yes, but also he's a strikeout king, about as bad on defense as Manny, and we're probably going to end up losing Jarrod Parker in the balance. Those two draft picks we'll get for not resigning him in the off-season aren't as valuable as the guys we'll lose to Cincy, IMO.

It's akin to the Coyotes sacrificing Joel Perrault, Kevin Porter, and Nick Ross to get Bryan McCabe.

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08-11-2008, 08:32 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Not fond of this move. Leads MLB in homers, yes, but also he's a strikeout king, about as bad on defense as Manny, and we're probably going to end up losing Jarrod Parker in the balance. Those two draft picks we'll get for not resigning him in the off-season aren't as valuable as the guys we'll lose to Cincy, IMO.

It's akin to the Coyotes sacrificing Joel Perrault, Kevin Porter, and Nick Ross to get Bryan McCabe.
It was Dallas Buck and two PTBNLs. I doubt either would end up being Parker. He would have been the centerpiece of the deal originally. I can't see either of the PTBNLs being more valuable than Buck, who wasn't very valuable in the first place.

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08-11-2008, 08:46 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Not fond of this move. Leads MLB in homers, yes, but also he's a strikeout king, about as bad on defense as Manny, and we're probably going to end up losing Jarrod Parker in the balance. Those two draft picks we'll get for not resigning him in the off-season aren't as valuable as the guys we'll lose to Cincy, IMO.

It's akin to the Coyotes sacrificing Joel Perrault, Kevin Porter, and Nick Ross to get Bryan McCabe.
Not really. McCabe is overpaid (whereas Dunn really isn't), and he's under contract for the next 3 years, whereas Dunn's contract is done after this season. Also, I HIGHLY doubt Parker was included in this deal. The one name we know thus far (Buck) is at best a decent prospect who is coming off Tommy John surgery. No big loss.

As for the Ks, it's a highly overrated statistic. That's always the talk surrounding guys like Dunn and Reynolds, but let's take a closer look. Dunn's career OBP is 20th among all active players, and just to give you an idea, his career OBP is higher than Ichiro's (whose career average is .331). Dunn also leads the league in most pitches seen per plate appearance, so the guy clearly knows what he's doing at the plate. He has more homers than anyone in baseball over the past 5 years except ARod (who has one more than him). Dunn also homers every 13.8 at bats, which is the fifth best ratio in the HISTORY of baseball. It's baffling to me how so many people (this isn't directed at you specifically) care SO much about how guys get out. As we saw from Byrnes all year (and this is coming from someone who likes him a lot), the guy was a popout machine. That's certainly no better than a K.

As for Reynolds, the guy is hitting .301 with runners on base, .325 with RISP, .333 with RISP and two outs, and .333 with the bases loaded. Once again, everyone wants to talk about the high strikeout totals, but the bottom line is the guy gets the job done. He has a higher average with RISP than Howard, Braun, Utley, Ludwick, Adrian Gonzalez, Burrell, Fielder, Hanley Ramirez, Pujols, Holliday, Soriano, Chipper, Teixera, and so on and so forth (and that's just guys in the NL). Who the hell cares if a guy grounds out with no one on base or strikes out?!? Makes absolutely no difference.

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08-11-2008, 09:52 PM
  #205
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Parker isn't in the deal, the two PTBNLs are supposedly on the 40 man roster.

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08-11-2008, 10:09 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Not fond of this move. Leads MLB in homers, yes, but also he's a strikeout king, about as bad on defense as Manny, and we're probably going to end up losing Jarrod Parker in the balance. Those two draft picks we'll get for not resigning him in the off-season aren't as valuable as the guys we'll lose to Cincy, IMO.

It's akin to the Coyotes sacrificing Joel Perrault, Kevin Porter, and Nick Ross to get Bryan McCabe.
He may strike out a lot but he doesn't just lead the majors in HRs he also leads in walks. His OBP is close to 40%, and over his career, it's better than Teixeira's. I'm okay with people not liking Dunn. I'm not okay with people that were drooling over Teixeira and are now not happy with Dunn. Teixeira isn't a whole lot better. They are similar players, and considering that Teixeira garnered a king's ransom in trade, and Dunn looks like he'll end up being a fairly cheap acquisition, I think Burns deserves a lot of credit. Plus, you've got to understand the pressure to do something. LA goes out and suprises everyone by sneaking Manny through the back door minutes before the deadline. Now he's hitting dingers willy nilly, and the Dodgers just won't go away. It's not like Burns is selling the farm. Clark, Rauch, and Dunn aren't blockbuster moves. I'm quite pleased, actually.

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08-11-2008, 10:12 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by k1llua View Post
It was Dallas Buck and two PTBNLs. I doubt either would end up being Parker. He would have been the centerpiece of the deal originally. I can't see either of the PTBNLs being more valuable than Buck, who wasn't very valuable in the first place.
Agreed. I imagine that Buck will be the most valuable peice. Players named later usually aren't better than players originally named. I can't think of when that's ever happened. Considering Buck is coming off of Tommy John's, I think we got good value.

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08-11-2008, 10:14 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by BGDDYKWL View Post
As for the Ks, it's a highly overrated statistic. That's always the talk surrounding guys like Dunn and Reynolds, but let's take a closer look. Dunn's career OBP is 20th among all active players, and just to give you an idea, his career OBP is higher than Ichiro's (whose career average is .331). Dunn also leads the league in most pitches seen per plate appearance, so the guy clearly knows what he's doing at the plate. He has more homers than anyone in baseball over the past 5 years except ARod (who has one more than him). Dunn also homers every 13.8 at bats, which is the fifth best ratio in the HISTORY of baseball. It's baffling to me how so many people (this isn't directed at you specifically) care SO much about how guys get out. As we saw from Byrnes all year (and this is coming from someone who likes him a lot), the guy was a popout machine. That's certainly no better than a K.
Thanks for all these numbers. I've got to commit them to memory so I can scream at my stupid friends *****ing about the trade tommorrow at the bar.

BTW, I guess I should've read your post before I added my replies. You covered everything, and did it much better.

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08-11-2008, 11:21 PM
  #209
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Agreed. I imagine that Buck will be the most valuable peice. Players named later usually aren't better than players originally named. I can't think of when that's ever happened. Considering Buck is coming off of Tommy John's, I think we got good value.
In this case, using a player to be named later shields that player from having to be put on waivers before the completion of the trade, since we are past the non-waiver trading deadline.

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08-11-2008, 11:51 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by coyoteshockeyfan View Post
In this case, using a player to be named later shields that player from having to be put on waivers before the completion of the trade, since we are past the non-waiver trading deadline.
Parker's not on the 40-man roster so he's safe.

Out of the players in Tucson who are on the 40-man roster the only ones I'd be worried about losing are Scherzer, and MAYBE Owings and Castillo. I'm positive it isn't Scherzer, he wasn't on the table in the Teixera talks. I don't see why he would be now. The only other decent prospects in Tucson are corner infielders, I could see them dealing from a position of strength.

On the MLB roster Salazar, D'Antona, and Burke are no real loss.

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08-11-2008, 11:56 PM
  #211
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Is there a difference in players to be named vs players to be decided? Meaning, is it possible that there are certain clauses that will determine which players will be delivered to the Reds? As in, if the DBacks fail to qualify for the post-season the Reds get a couple of scrubs, if the DBacks win the West than the Reds get some more decent names, or if they make it to the NLCS the Reds get a couple of studs, or something like that. Is that possible?

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08-12-2008, 01:12 AM
  #212
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Is there a difference in players to be named vs players to be decided? Meaning, is it possible that there are certain clauses that will determine which players will be delivered to the Reds? As in, if the DBacks fail to qualify for the post-season the Reds get a couple of scrubs, if the DBacks win the West than the Reds get some more decent names, or if they make it to the NLCS the Reds get a couple of studs, or something like that. Is that possible?
I've always heard them called "player to be named later," (PTBNL) but there have been cases where it has been someone decided later. Basically, the two teams decide on a list of players that can be included as the PTBNL (usually a list of low level prospects), and then the team will take a little while to do their own scouting before picking which one they'll take. I've never heard of a "conditional" PTBNL (doesn't mean its never happened before though).

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08-12-2008, 10:21 AM
  #213
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LA goes out and suprises everyone by sneaking Manny through the back door minutes before the deadline. Now he's hitting dingers willy nilly, and the Dodgers just won't go away. It's not like Burns is selling the farm. Clark, Rauch, and Dunn aren't blockbuster moves. I'm quite pleased, actually.
Adam Dunn isn't going to be a Manny for us, though. I can see Dunn being a Richie Sexson-type of acquisition for us - hitting a few monster home runs but situationally not much of an upgrade over who we already have.

I think Manny is wowing everyone now because in Boston he had basically stopped playing in order to get the trade done.

I remember a few years ago when Beltran was traded and he ended up carrying his new club on his shoulders to the playoffs, but I'm doubting Dunn is going to do that either.

I will say this - Dunn will definitely bring more to the plate than Eric Byrnes, so for no other reason than that I'm not hating this move. I just hope that the other two guys off our 40-man roster that will be heading to Cincy aren't going to come back to bite us later. I'm worried that Castillo and/or Whitesell might be one of the PTBNLs.


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08-12-2008, 03:02 PM
  #214
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I'm worried that Castillo and/or Whitesell might be one of the PTBNLs.
I wouldn't think Whitesell was in the deal. The guy is tearing it up this year. As was mentioned, typically the players to be named later aren't better than the guy already known to be included. Hopefully anyway.

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08-12-2008, 07:26 PM
  #215
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...As was mentioned, typically the players to be named later aren't better than the guy already known to be included. Hopefully anyway.
I stand corrected. Word is Owings might be one of the players to be named later. I like this deal a whole hell of a lot less if that is in fact the case.

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08-12-2008, 07:35 PM
  #216
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I stand corrected. Word is Owings might be one of the players to be named later. I like this deal a whole hell of a lot less if that is in fact the case.
I heard Gambo say that today. If Owings is in the deal I'll probably lose it. Owings is young and has had 3 bad months. There is 0 reason to trade him away considering his solid rookie year, the fact that Randy may not be back next season, and Petit could collapse at any minute. The Dback's have been building slow for years now and if they give away Owings for a rental, that lets face it, may help you take the division but certainly isn't going to get you far in the playoffs, they have clearly lost their mind.

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08-12-2008, 09:19 PM
  #217
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I stand corrected. Word is Owings might be one of the players to be named later. I like this deal a whole hell of a lot less if that is in fact the case.
It's official. He is.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diam...pt-owings.html

Bad move by the D-Backs. If he couldn't cut it as a pitcher why couldn't they D-Backs leverage his hitting?

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08-12-2008, 11:57 PM
  #218
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As a Reds fan

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08-13-2008, 09:53 AM
  #219
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The irony here, of course, is that if the D'Backs converted Micah Owings into a fielder, he'd have the same power potential, a better eye at the plate, and a FAR better ability to field a position than Dunn.

And he'd have been a lot cheaper to keep around.

Sigh.

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08-13-2008, 11:59 AM
  #220
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The big problem with Owings is that he is already a pitcher. Now we could have sent him down to AA and put him at a position and let him stay there and learn how to play the outfield or infield, but the D-backs management wants to win now, as should most D-backs fans. Owings is someone I didn't want to lose, ecspecially for a 2 month rental player, but hopefully we can start hitting the ball more and getting some runs in now that we have Dunn. We just lost Hudson for the rest of the season, so we had to do something drastic to keep our chances alive. The Dodgers are playing better ball, so it will be a close finish. But now we have the strikeout kings of the world on our team with Reynolds, Dunn, Young, and Upton when he returns. We shall see how this all turns out.

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08-13-2008, 03:35 PM
  #221
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The irony here, of course, is that if the D'Backs converted Micah Owings into a fielder, he'd have the same power potential, a better eye at the plate, and a FAR better ability to field a position than Dunn.

And he'd have been a lot cheaper to keep around.

Sigh.
I know this is a hockey board, and all, but I swear this post makes me want to rip my eyeballs from my skull and smash them all over my moniter.


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08-13-2008, 06:33 PM
  #222
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I know this is a hockey board, and all, but I swear this post makes me want to rip my eyeballs from my skull and smash them all over my moniter.

Tease.

I feel the same way when I hear people like Daron Sutton ejaculating at the top of his lungs about how the D'Backs "stepped up" by trading for Dunn. Adam Dunn is not going to get us ONE STEP CLOSER to the pennant than we would have gotten without him.

If I'm wrong, feel free to throw this in my face.

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08-13-2008, 07:44 PM
  #223
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The irony here, of course, is that if the D'Backs converted Micah Owings into a fielder, he'd have the same power potential, a better eye at the plate, and a FAR better ability to field a position than Dunn.

And he'd have been a lot cheaper to keep around.

Sigh.
Owings has the same power potential as the guy who has more home runs in the last four seasons than anybody else in the league? There's a pretty good chance that the league has simply adjusted to Micah's bat. He's slugging almost .300 points less than last season, and his RBIs have dropped from 15 to 3 in almost the same amount of at bats.

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08-13-2008, 09:45 PM
  #224
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Tease.

I feel the same way when I hear people like Daron Sutton ejaculating at the top of his lungs about how the D'Backs "stepped up" by trading for Dunn. Adam Dunn is not going to get us ONE STEP CLOSER to the pennant than we would have gotten without him.

If I'm wrong, feel free to throw this in my face.
I just cannot see how you've reached this opinion. You seem so far out to lunch on this, to me.

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08-14-2008, 10:30 AM
  #225
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I just cannot see how you've reached this opinion. You seem so far out to lunch on this, to me.
I guess we'll find out which of us is the choad at the end of the season. The nice thing is if I'm wrong it means the D'Backs will have won the division and the NL championship, so I guess I can't lose either way.

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