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BUF/edm Rumor/disaster.

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Old
01-07-2004, 12:06 PM
  #1
Chayos
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BUF/edm Rumor/disaster.

This Brewer/ laraque for Satan rumour keeps poking its head up and is making me very nervous. We just don't need a 4 million dollar player at the cost of our best d-man. Unless there is more to it i hate this deal horribly. Kind of remninds me of the Shanahan for pronger thing to a lesser degree though.

If Buff wants brewer this is what i think the oil would need back.

Brewer and Laraque for khalinin, Noronen and vanek

That would fill our need a little better than the other deal imo.


Khalinin would replace brewers minutes and we would get a goalie who is ready to step in and a top prospect.

I will say that Lowe did hint he was looking to make a deal that was different than anything that was normall for EDM though. This deal would suck unless The sabres add Khalinin or Mckee going back though
as paying value for an expensive player in this trade market would be plain foolishness.

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Old
01-07-2004, 12:13 PM
  #2
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The only problem with picking up a goalie right now would be we'd have to put one of them on the waiver wire. And that would be suicide. If we put Salo on waivers now (playing pretty solid for us now), then a team might pick him up for nothing, leaving us with Conks and whoever we pick up, which isnt too bad, but if we are gonna lose Salo for nothing, Id rather do it in the off season where theres less chance of his biting us in the ars. If we put Conklin on waivers, then We have Salo and whoever we get. and Salo is only effective if he plays alot, so the guy we get in return would basically be a backup which we already have a pretty good one.

Hope I never confused you.

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01-07-2004, 01:10 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
The only problem with picking up a goalie right now would be we'd have to put one of them on the waiver wire. And that would be suicide.
no it wouldn't.

Quote:
If we put Salo on waivers now (playing pretty solid for us now), then a team might pick him up for nothing, leaving us with Conks and whoever we pick up, which isnt too badbut if we are gonna lose Salo for nothing, Id rather do it in the off season where theres less chance of his biting us in the ars.
you are right, except that not only is it not bad it would be really good. Save just under 2 mil in salary and upgrade the goaltending.


Quote:
If we put Conklin on waivers, then We have Salo and whoever we get. and Salo is only effective if he plays alot, so the guy we get in return would basically be a backup which we already have a pretty good one.
why would they do that?


****

All in all I agree with Chayos, BUF is an interesting trade partner for EDM because they have a lot of pieces (read, not Satan) that are of use to EDM. Unfortunately, most of them are also of use to BUF, because both clubs are at the same stage in their developments as rebuilding clubs.

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01-07-2004, 01:29 PM
  #4
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The report on Vanek was that he was absolutely terrible at the WJC.

One quote from another poster had him as the worst player on the ice in the Austria-Ukraine game.

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01-07-2004, 01:33 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
The report on Vanek was that he was absolutely terrible at the WJC.

One quote from another poster had him as the worst player on the ice in the Austria-Ukraine game.
I just happened to finally get around to reading GuyF's interview with Prendergast, and KP mentioned that they don't place a HUGE weight on what a kid does in the WJCs... he talked about the guys having to adjust to many new things there in a short amount of time and aren't always successful, but it doesn't mean they're not a good player.

On the other hand, I know nothing about Vanek, but I thought I would just pop in the 'official' line on how the Oilers' scouting staff views the WJCs.

Bart

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01-07-2004, 01:37 PM
  #6
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Let me say this. If Brew/Laraque gets us Satan in the upcoming months... I am officially off the Kevin Lowe bandwagon and no amount of begging is going to get me back on.

It makes absolutely no sense (and I'm talking none) for a self-respected GM to deal from an already thin blueline to upgrade the wingers... (of which we have an overabundance of). That being said, Lowe cannot be that dumb. He just can't.

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01-07-2004, 01:39 PM
  #7
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I think Miller would be a better selection as the goalie coming back

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Old
01-07-2004, 01:41 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barto
I just happened to finally get around to reading GuyF's interview with Prendergast, and KP mentioned that they don't place a HUGE weight on what a kid does in the WJCs... he talked about the guys having to adjust to many new things there in a short amount of time and aren't always successful, but it doesn't mean they're not a good player.

On the other hand, I know nothing about Vanek, but I thought I would just pop in the 'official' line on how the Oilers' scouting staff views the WJCs.

Bart
I read that, and although you don't base everything on the WJC, I think that the Guy F article went too far to discount WJC performance.

If you have a great player who plays great against the greatest competition at the greatest level, that is what you should see. See examples of their skills and what they can do when faced with high pressure situations.

Phaneuf showed a Scott Stevens impression.(Poor Olesz) Parise showed he could put up some numbers. Carter showed he could put some sweet offensive moves at high speeds. Montoya showed that when the chips were down he could play well in a big game. Tukonnen showed he had good skating ability and was strong on the puck.

Scouts see the top guys several times before they draft them so I can see that Pendergast can downplay that it isn't the end all beat all.

But there is some measuring to be done by the best young players playing against other best young players.

Personally Vanek seems too Brendlesque for my liking and everything I have heard. I have no interest in him....but Derek Roy on the other hand.....

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Old
01-07-2004, 01:44 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
That being said, Lowe cannot be that dumb. He just can't.
If I've learned anything from my 34 years on this mortal coil, it's this:
  • Never underestimate how much damage your kids can cause in your house when unsupervised.
  • Never underestimate the limits of another person's stupidity.

I'm officially worried now. As much as Brewer can drive a person crazy sometimes, he's the best young dman we have.

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Old
01-07-2004, 01:51 PM
  #10
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The idea of trading Brewer doesn't particularly appeal to me, but if someone wants to overpay you for him that's fine.

but Satan would be such a strange return for him, wouldn't at all mesh with what Lowe should be trying to build.

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Old
01-07-2004, 01:52 PM
  #11
momentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
If I've learned anything from my 34 years on this mortal coil, it's this:
  • Never underestimate how much damage your kids can cause in your house when unsupervised.
  • Never underestimate the limits of another person's stupidity.

I'm officially worried now. As much as Brewer can drive a person crazy sometimes, he's the best young dman we have.
Great. I'm looking for a few comforting words like "Everything's going to be alright"... and I get this. Never run a help hotline Digger. :p

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01-07-2004, 02:08 PM
  #12
Chayos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
The only problem with picking up a goalie right now would be we'd have to put one of them on the waiver wire. And that would be suicide. If we put Salo on waivers now (playing pretty solid for us now), then a team might pick him up for nothing, leaving us with Conks and whoever we pick up, which isnt too bad, but if we are gonna lose Salo for nothing, Id rather do it in the off season where theres less chance of his biting us in the ars. If we put Conklin on waivers, then We have Salo and whoever we get. and Salo is only effective if he plays alot, so the guy we get in return would basically be a backup which we already have a pretty good one.

Hope I never confused you.
God if we could put salo on waiver and someone grabbed him i would laugh myself silly. He may be playing ok right now but he is overpriced and gone at seasons end anyways. I say if we can get a 10th round pick for him right now we are rippping someone off

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01-07-2004, 02:11 PM
  #13
Digger12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
Never run a help hotline Digger. :p
All day long it would be "SUCK IT UP, YA BIG BA..." *CLICK*

"Hmm, another bad connection. Must be sun spots. Anyway, back to some more calls in just a minute but first...I need to talk to you all about the best tasting ribs..."

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Old
01-07-2004, 02:16 PM
  #14
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I'm hoping all this talk is just a smoke screen...reading the KP interview he mentioned the supposed "Prendergast is off to take a look at Coburn" rumours that were flying during the Comrie saga. He had apparently told a reporter he was heading "out west", but it turned out he was actually going to Anaheim to check out their player(s) rather than Coburn in Portland.

Really can't imagine Lowe taking Satan back for just about anyone (maybe Salo?) with the contract status & price Miro's got, and *especially* not for a stud like Brewer. (Young, reasonably priced, long ways to go before arbitration & UFA)

I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

I'm NOT, I tell you!!!

Bart

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Old
01-07-2004, 02:29 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
It makes absolutely no sense (and I'm talking none) for a self-respected GM to deal from an already thin blueline to upgrade the wingers... (of which we have an overabundance of).
You're forgetting one thing though.... of late, our "overabundance of wingers" couldn't put the puck in the ocean. Kind of makes you wonder how good some of them actually are when they go through a streak this long. (Here come all the "It's MacT's fault with his line blender)

While I agree that more consistency in the forward lines might breed some better results, it might also just sink us further into the bog if no one picks up the pace. The fact of the matter is, these guys have to find a way to put pucks in the net, no matter who they're playing with or against.

And Satan can do that unlike any player we now have.

And while I think that Satan for Brewer + Laraque is a definite overpayment on our part, if we got back another young d-man, (Kalinin, Tallinder ???? dunno, I'm not really that familiar with the d situation in Buffalo) it might not be that bad.

If we could find a way to afford Satan long-term, it could be a huge boost to our team.... the one-shot scorer we've been after for so long.


As for the blueline, if Ulanov picks up some of the slack this year, with Lynch and Woywitka on the horizon, I think that we could make it through this year without Brewer, and not be in a bad situation post-2004.

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Old
01-07-2004, 03:04 PM
  #16
momentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
All day long it would be "SUCK IT UP, YA BIG BA..." *CLICK*

"Hmm, another bad connection. Must be sun spots. Anyway, back to some more calls in just a minute but first...I need to talk to you all about the best tasting ribs..."
At least it wasn't the best in Italian cooking.... it was one or the other I suppose.

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Old
01-07-2004, 03:12 PM
  #17
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Funny... a couple of months ago, everyone was ragging on Brewtal and wanted him traded "while he had some worth"....

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Old
01-07-2004, 03:16 PM
  #18
momentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
You're forgetting one thing though.... of late, our "overabundance of wingers" couldn't put the puck in the ocean. Kind of makes you wonder how good some of them actually are when they go through a streak this long. (Here come all the "It's MacT's fault with his line blender)
Not the point at all. Who really cares if the forwards couldn't put a puck into the ocean as it stands. The fact of the matter is that we have too many of them and not one place to put them safely at the moment. To further compound the problem by adding another one in there is a faulty decision by any stretch of the imagination.

In this one fell swoop, you deplete the team of its biggest longterm minute eater especially since Lowe already shipped off Janne to the Island. And you swell the forward ranks even more.. Until Lowe can clear up some of the room in the forward position, how he can justify landing a forward by dealing a dman is ludicrous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
And Satan can do that unlike any player we now have.
He is also paid unlike any player we now have. He is in the midst of a two year contract worth 10 million over 2 years. Can the Oilers afford to take on that salary? Doubtful.

Then you have to consider the fact that Satan is 29 years old and at the end of his contract, he will be 31 years old. Not a good combination if you ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
As for the blueline, if Ulanov picks up some of the slack this year, with Lynch and Woywitka on the horizon, I think that we could make it through this year without Brewer, and not be in a bad situation post-2004.
The worst part is that Smith could be eventually gone after this season. With Brew/Niinimaa also gone, the Oilers' defense remains remarkably weak. Dealing Brewer would continually force minutes on other players like Semenov, Cross, Ulanov, Ferguson, and possibly Lynch/Woywitka into minutes they could not handle. Brewer struggled mightily earlier this season for those exact same reasons when Niinimaa left. We risk making the same mistake twice in a row.

Also, it is something to note that the Oilers (besides Brew) have no one that has the potential of a #1 blueliner and that includes Lynch, Woywitka, Smith, Staios, Semenov, K. Smith, Svensk, or Greene. To leave that as a glaring hole in this organization is not something I would relish. Championships are won from defense and goaltending as it states. To deplete our defense even further would not be wise IMO.

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Old
01-07-2004, 03:27 PM
  #19
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Acquiring Satan makes no sense based on what Lowe has been trying to build imo. The only other mention of a high priced guy since Lowe arrived that I can remember is Eric Lindros.

You know, to be honest, I'm at a point where I wouldn't mind if they dealt the whole ****tero and started again. Smyth, Smith, Staios, Dvorak, Oates, trade the whole damn bunch and do a re-build.

speeds finally broke my spirit.

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01-07-2004, 03:58 PM
  #20
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Just to throw out a propoal involving Satan(because with as many rumours I've heard, there muct be at least the smidgen of truth to it) would be something like this:

To Edm:
Satan, Kalinen, Noronen

To Buff:
Brewer, Laraque, Chimera, Phi 1st

Chimera could easily be replaced by some one else(Rita, Horcoff, Salmalainen, etc), but I think he'd probably be a guy that'd interest them. He seems to be someone that could really get going given the opportunity to be an offensive guy. He's shown a goal scorers touch before, playing on the 4th line, and there's no doubt he has speed, and that would fit in nicely in Buffalo(I really see a lot of similarities between us and them actually).

So, IMO, this deal would work for both teams. I'm sure Buffalo doesn't want to give up on Noronen or Kalinen, but getting Brewer is an upgrade over Kalinen, and they are stocked at goaltending and Chimera could step in and they get a 1st to boot.

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01-07-2004, 04:10 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Just to throw out a propoal involving Satan(because with as many rumours I've heard, there muct be at least the smidgen of truth to it) would be something like this:

To Edm:
Satan, Kalinen, Noronen

To Buff:
Brewer, Laraque, Chimera, Phi 1st

Chimera could easily be replaced by some one else(Rita, Horcoff, Salmalainen, etc), but I think he'd probably be a guy that'd interest them. He seems to be someone that could really get going given the opportunity to be an offensive guy. He's shown a goal scorers touch before, playing on the 4th line, and there's no doubt he has speed, and that would fit in nicely in Buffalo(I really see a lot of similarities between us and them actually).

So, IMO, this deal would work for both teams. I'm sure Buffalo doesn't want to give up on Noronen or Kalinen, but getting Brewer is an upgrade over Kalinen, and they are stocked at goaltending and Chimera could step in and they get a 1st to boot.
It doesn't make sense from an affordability aspect. An earlier poster mentioned that Satan makes $10 million over 2 years and he's already 29? While the Oil MIGHT be able to afford that, they wouldn't sink that much money into one player again (Comrie!) It does not make any financial sense for Satan to be included. And we know that for ANY deal done by the Oilers, finances plays a huge part!

Remove Satan from the deal. Kalinen and Norenen would probably interest the Oil however. Cheap. Young. The Oiler Way.

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Old
01-07-2004, 04:21 PM
  #22
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you have to remember that the Sabres have the same financial concerns as the Oilers so they aren't a really good trading partner.

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Old
01-07-2004, 04:35 PM
  #23
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Has Brownlee entered the fray yet on Brewer talk?

I don't recall a peep from him to this point, although I haven't been reading much hockey news lately. And, much as I'm not a fan of Brownlee, he does seem to have some good information about who the Oilers are shopping. He was on the mark with Niinimaa. He was on the mark with Carter, if I recall. He was on top of the Comrie situation until Bobby Clarke emerged from the blue. I'd like to hear from Brownlee before I hit the panick button. On my scorecard, he's running ahead of other sources for Oiler moves. Chances are he'd have said something if there was anything to this-- he's not exactly Johnny Tightlips.


hmmm-- checking the Slam website, it appears that Brownlee hasn't filed a column for quite a while... must be on holidays or something.

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Old
01-07-2004, 04:40 PM
  #24
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Maybe the Oilers would be flipping Satan to a third team to address the needs of the Oilers.

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Old
01-07-2004, 05:30 PM
  #25
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What was the point of getting Oates if he doesn't have anyone to set up? We are in dire need of a true goal scorer!MacT can preach"D" all he wants,but Lowe doesn't want to see the trap,nor does the season ticket holders like myself! I don't believe that Brewer would be a part of this deal.I can see Georges and Horcoff as well as picks or prospects in some kind of package.Also I can't see Smith being here after the deadline at the latest.Where is Horcoff going to fit in after Reasoner comes back?I can't see them taking Stoll out now after the way he has been getting better with every game(also blows Horcoff away on faceoff%).Georges and Smith almost equall $4 million right there.Also it seems we are a little under on our payroll,especially with the way the dollar is going makes a big difference on travelling expences.

One other idea that may help is what about getting Berezin to sign on with the Roadrunners to see if he has anything left in the tank?He is another one of those 1 shot goal scorers!

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