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Old
01-08-2004, 04:42 PM
  #1
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what happened

is there anyone who lives near philly who has some inside info on whats going on with this team.they look like they have no confidence at both ends of the rink especially in the net.just a sugestion has hacket ever had an eye appoitment doesnt look like he can see the puck.is the hitch system killing this team or the goaltending?

 
Old
01-08-2004, 06:02 PM
  #2
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(1) Goaltending will kill this team in the long run unless Esche or God willing Hackett can get hot....Boucher-like....

(2) The Flyers typically go through the January slump, so it's more the 'wait and see approach' to see if Clarke actually goes out and grabs a goalie or something else (maybe another aged forward who once scored 40 goals...just maybe)

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01-08-2004, 06:45 PM
  #3
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I think Flyers are tired because last month they played 16 games in 31 days... They will be play 16 more games this month... Plus Hackett is killing this team by giving up soft goals in crucial time... Why I have a weird feeling Flyers will lose in the playoff to Ottowa or Devils because Flyers goalie gave up soft goals... We have a great team but Clarke always refuse to admit that this team need above average goalie to go all the way... Do you think Flyers will go after Mathew Biron... Who they give up for him...

What are the chances Flyers trade for another goalie?

Who that would they trade for? I mean if they....

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01-09-2004, 01:08 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
What are the chances Flyers trade for another goalie?
After seeing Clarke's interview a few weeks ago on the state of Flyer goaltending, and goaltending in the NHL, it doesn't seem like a good chance he'll make the obviously necessary move. I've been saying on here since the day they signed Hackett that the goaltender that would be starting the playoffs as our #1 was not yet on the roster and would have to be brought in before the trade deadline. For the love of God, I hope I'm right.

Anyone noticing the same scenarios developing game after game that we've been seeing for years? Outshoot the opposition by a ton (last 2 games against Buffalo and Florida, 45-21 and 49-19, respectively, with 1 point out of each) and either eke out a one-goal victory or give away points. I couldn't believe what I was reading after the Buffalo game when Gags made the comment "It always seems whenever we play a team, we run into a hot goaltender..." Ghosts of Flyers past (Poulin, Propp, Kerr, etc.) came rushing into my head, as this was the "party line" for quite some time on the Flyers. But Gags at least redeemed himself in the next line....."But maybe we're making their goalies look good..." Now you're on to something, Simon.

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Old
01-09-2004, 03:57 AM
  #5
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In Nov this team over achieved and now they are underachieving. Unless this team picks up a bona fide 45 goal scorer and a top notch goalie, we are looking at another 1st or 2nd round exit.

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Old
01-09-2004, 04:18 AM
  #6
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It's amazing to me, that our most glaring weakness over the past decade plus, is GOALTENDING ! Why is it that we can't draft/ sign a legit top goaltender? The shots from the blueline that go in on this team is amazing! The shot in OT was stoppable! Hackett has been horrrible! He has had the chance to become our #1, and hasn't done a damn thing to deserve it. I like Esche, but will we win a cup with him in goal? Honestly, I don't think so. He's a good goaltender, but the playoffs are a whole different monster than a game in Jan. If we go up against The Debs or Ottawa, where one mistake will cost you a game or series, will our goaltending steal us a win? Honestly, I doubt it.
The save Hackett needed to make, was the penalty shot, and he didn't. He got beat by an 18yr old kid! That changed the whole game.
The FLYERS needed him to make the save, and he got beat. That's been his story since December.
WHo or what is the answer for our goaltending, I don't have the answer. It's not Cujo, that I know.
What's amazing is that the Flyers where known for excellent goalies for years, Look at their past history of goaltenders: Parent, Peeters, Frose, Lindbergh, Hexy (late 80's - early 90's). What the hell happened?

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Old
01-09-2004, 04:39 AM
  #7
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The team is going through their annual slump. The difference though is that this time they are at least getting a point a game while they suck.

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Old
01-09-2004, 07:33 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
In Nov this team over achieved and now they are underachieving. Unless this team picks up a bona fide 45 goal scorer and a top notch goalie, we are looking at another 1st or 2nd round exit.
The top notch goalie can't be had but a better one than what we have possibly can.

As for the scorer, we don't need a 45 goal scorer. We could use an upgrade over players who are on pace for only 10-12 goals this year. Double their output and the Flyers win a lot of these games even with stinky goaltending.

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01-09-2004, 08:12 AM
  #9
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[QUOTE=Flyers26] Why is it that we can't draft/ sign a legit top goaltender? QUOTE]

We have....but BC traded them away

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01-09-2004, 08:13 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overtime
As for the scorer, we don't need a 45 goal scorer.


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Old
01-09-2004, 09:39 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
Is that all you've got?

Scoring isn't a major problem. Its a minor one. Upgrading our second line wingers would give all the scoring this team needs without bringing in a top level overly expensive scorer. 45 goal scorers - who are they? What do you plan to give up to actually get them? How are you going to convince another team to give them up?

Here's your list of players on pace to score 45:

Rick Nash - Columbus - on pace for 48

That's it.

Over 40:

Ilya Kovalchuk - Atlanta - 43
Ladislav Nagy - Phoenix - 42
Marcus Naslund - Vancouver - 40

List done.

Can you put a reasonable trade together to acquire any of these players, and would they score these goal numbers here?

It seems that my comment is more on the money than yours laughing boy. :p

We have 2 players in the top 25 of goal scorers. Out of 30 teams in the league, not too many can hope to have 2. Detroit has 4. That's 6 out of the top 25. A couple of other teams also have 2. Teams that have a player scoring 40 or more goals aren't giving up the one they have.

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Old
01-09-2004, 10:59 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overtime
Is that all you've got?

Scoring isn't a major problem. Its a minor one. Upgrading our second line wingers would give all the scoring this team needs without bringing in a top level overly expensive scorer. 45 goal scorers - who are they? What do you plan to give up to actually get them? How are you going to convince another team to give them up?

Here's your list of players on pace to score 45:

Rick Nash - Columbus - on pace for 48

That's it.

Over 40:

Ilya Kovalchuk - Atlanta - 43
Ladislav Nagy - Phoenix - 42
Marcus Naslund - Vancouver - 40

List done.

Can you put a reasonable trade together to acquire any of these players, and would they score these goal numbers here?

It seems that my comment is more on the money than yours laughing boy. :p

We have 2 players in the top 25 of goal scorers. Out of 30 teams in the league, not too many can hope to have 2. Detroit has 4. That's 6 out of the top 25. A couple of other teams also have 2. Teams that have a player scoring 40 or more goals aren't giving up the one they have.

Scoring is one of the major problems on this team. 45 shots and 1 goal. Heck, I could do that. It does not matter how many time you shot. That is not how you win. This game is all about putting one in the net. The game is all about scoring. This team does not have a go to guy. There is not one person on this team other players fear (Skill wise)

Who are the flyers that are on pace for 40, hell 35 even? NONE!

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01-09-2004, 04:35 PM
  #13
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I'd rather have multiple 30 goal players than one 45 goal player. Lose a 45 goal player to injury and you have a major hole.

Like I pointed out already, there are only 4 - count them, 4 - 40+ goal players in the entire league. Its all well and good to say we need one, but 26 other teams need one too! You might as well say we need Martin Brodeur or a 60 goal player. They simply aren't available in the league today.

You didn't answer my question. How do you propose to get one of those 4 onto the Flyers?

Our problem isn't not having a 45 goal player. Its too many players who are on pace for too few goals. Start with Justin Williams, add Simon Gagne, Tony Amonte, Keith Primeau and Sami Kapanen. Primeau and Kapanen are considered 3rd line checkers so they aren't in the spotlight but the other three are. Adding a 45 goal scorer isn't possible but upgrading one of these players into a 25-30 goal player is.

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Old
01-10-2004, 02:27 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overtime
I'd rather have multiple 30 goal players than one 45 goal player. Lose a 45 goal player to injury and you have a major hole.
Agreed, and look no further than the mid-80s Flyers for the proof. Does the name Tim Kerr ring a bell? 4 straight 50 goal years, but the two times the Flyers made it to the finals during that stretch, Timmy was in the press box, long gone with injuries. They had Brian Propp and a very balanced attack of forwards similar to the ones on the current roster. The BIG difference? The mid-80s Flyers were a lock when they had the lead midway through the 3rd period. Textbook examples of shutting down the opposition. Between the goaltending and the D, this team is always teetering on disaster with a 1 goal lead late in any given game, no matter how weak the opponent.

Rather than bringing in a "seasoned goalie", I would much rather see Clarke go after a young goalie the team can build around, like a Roberto Luongo from Florida (gonna be costly, even if he is available) or a Martin Biron out of Buffalo (could be had much cheaper and should be available again once Mika Noronen returns from injury).

The revolving goaltender carousel we've had to watch here over the past decade is not only ridiculous, but embarrassing. For a supposed perennial top level Stanley Cup contending team to continue to try to put a band aid on the most important spot on the ice year after year is inexcusable. Until Clarke gets that goaltender to build around, the rest will all be done with smoke and mirrors. Is this not the same Bobby Clarke that has two Stanley Cup rings, and does he not remember that was because of one Bernard Marcel Parent, a goalie that would steal games regularly?

As for "needing a 40-goal scorer", we have enough offense to win throughout the playoffs. Look at the New Jersey roster and put their forwards scoring up against ours. The REAL difference in the Devils favor comes when you go back BEHIND the blueline, with their D, and Brodeur. Clarke was right in his comments about Brodeur being the best goaltender in the game, and no one expects him to go out and attempt to acquire Marty. But he is continuing a horrible pattern of casting a blind eye when looking at the Flyer goal crease if he thinks he couldn't improve it over the clown they so loving refer to as their #1. Esche has far outplayed Hackett, and Baron is right, Esche shoudn't be the go to guy. He's a decent backup, but not the man who will lead us to the promised land.

Sorry for the rant, but this is an ongoing joke that every Flyer fan should be upset about.

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Old
01-12-2004, 03:32 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overtime
We have 2 players in the top 25 of goal scorers. Out of 30 teams in the league, not too many can hope to have 2. Detroit has 4. That's 6 out of the top 25. A couple of other teams also have 2. Teams that have a player scoring 40 or more goals aren't giving up the one they have.

We are the flyers buddy. We should have two plavers in the top ten.

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Old
01-12-2004, 03:46 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overtime
I'd rather have multiple 30 goal players than one 45 goal player. Lose a 45 goal player to injury and you have a major hole.

.
This team does not even have that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right now, maybe two Flyers are on pace for 30 and most likely neither will make it. You need to wake up and look at reality. Some of the people on this board really overate the Flyer's forwards. Honestly, JR is a 2nd line center on a cup team. Gange is at best a 25 goal scorer. (He lack accuracy in his shot) JW is a third line player and Tony A is over the hill. Just stop it and realize that this team needs that finisher and none of these guys are it. Not someone who is hot but a player who night after night, season after season, scores goals! I really hope that I am worng in my assessment of this team, but i can't see this team winning a cup unless Broudor became our goaltender. Since that is not going to happen, We must get some top-notch scoring....

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01-12-2004, 03:56 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
We must get some top-notch scoring....
Who? And for what? Our only hope is that when these veterans move out, guys like Richards, Carter, Sharp, Gagne, and Williams will put up impressive numbers.

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Old
01-12-2004, 05:39 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindA17
Who? And for what? Our only hope is that when these veterans move out, guys like Richards, Carter, Sharp, Gagne, and Williams will put up impressive numbers.
I agree.......I never said it would be easy . I said it one of the things that this team really needs. I believe it is more possible to get a top goal scorer than it is to obtain Broudur.

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01-12-2004, 06:15 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
This team does not even have that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right now, maybe two Flyers are on pace for 30 and most likely neither will make it. You need to wake up and look at reality. Some of the people on this board really overate the Flyer's forwards. Honestly, JR is a 2nd line center on a cup team. Gange is at best a 25 goal scorer. (He lack accuracy in his shot) JW is a third line player and Tony A is over the hill. Just stop it and realize that this team needs that finisher and none of these guys are it. Not someone who is hot but a player who night after night, season after season, scores goals! I really hope that I am worng in my assessment of this team, but i can't see this team winning a cup unless Broudor became our goaltender. Since that is not going to happen, We must get some top-notch scoring....
Ok, so you know more than I do. Good for you. I need to wake up because I see that 2 players are on pace for around 30 goals but you KNOW they won't make it. Good for you.

If you read what I've written since I've been here, or know me from the O&B you will know that I have said that some of our players aren't pulling their weight. What I'm arguing with you about is that the team doesn't NEED a 45 goal scorer and one isn't OBTAINABLE anyway. I've said that those on pace for too few goals needed to be upgraded.

But you've asked me to "stop it" and I will. I will bow to your superior knowledge about the game. :mad:

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Old
01-12-2004, 08:21 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overtime
But you've asked me to "stop it" and I will. I will bow to your superior knowledge about the game. :mad:
Thanks .....hehehehehe

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Old
01-12-2004, 09:12 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
In Nov this team over achieved and now they are underachieving. Unless this team picks up a bona fide 45 goal scorer and a top notch goalie, we are looking at another 1st or 2nd round exit.
tell me who is availble capable of scoring 45 goals? We have enough talent to go deep into the playoffs. problem is we have 2 teams in the Conf. in NJ and Ottawa who have beaten us allready mentally. esp Broduer. he has us so beaten mentally it isnt even funny.
I might be wrong about that and or might be in the minority but thats how i feel.
The talent is there.

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Old
01-12-2004, 11:16 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
tell me who is availble capable of scoring 45 goals? We have enough talent to go deep into the playoffs. problem is we have 2 teams in the Conf. in NJ and Ottawa who have beaten us allready mentally. esp Broduer. he has us so beaten mentally it isnt even funny.
I might be wrong about that and or might be in the minority but thats how i feel.
The talent is there.
To beat NJ you need a top level sniper to help against Broduer. To beat Otawa you need a Goal who can stop their offence. As for who is out there....no sure....probably no one. But I still think you have a better chance of getting a 40 goal scorer than Broduer.

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Old
01-12-2004, 12:41 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
To beat NJ you need a top level sniper to help against Broduer. To beat Otawa you need a Goal who can stop their offence. As for who is out there....no sure....probably no one. But I still think you have a better chance of getting a 40 goal scorer than Broduer.
It is very tough in the Hitch system to get 40.
Hull topped out at 39 and Modano at 38 in seperate years.
Obviously those guys are not going to land in your lap any easier than a top goalie.

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Old
01-12-2004, 02:48 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by TheSeeker
Is this not the same Bobby Clarke that has two Stanley Cup rings, and does he not remember that was because of one Bernard Marcel Parent, a goalie that would steal games regularly?
During the intermission of the afternoon Flyer-Isles home game a month or so back, Brian Propp interviewed Wayne Fish. One of the topics discussed was the goaltending, specifically Clarke's view of the position in Philadelphia as discussed with Fish. Clarke said that part of the problem in Philadelphia is that everybody expects their goaltenders to play like Parent - a member of the Hall of Fame.

Anywho, I'm just tired of reading about this topic already. At this point in the game, I think the best thing the organization could pick up would be a healthy supply of pacifiers to hand out at games and for all the fans in general. Right now the goaltending position is a scapegoat. The bottom line is that the 20 guys suiting up every night aren't giving the kind of effort that they were two months ago.

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Old
01-13-2004, 05:24 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex88
It is very tough in the Hitch system to get 40.
Hull topped out at 39 and Modano at 38 in seperate years.
Obviously those guys are not going to land in your lap any easier than a top goalie.
Iíll take that . Heck, I'll take 35 goals. This team needs a consistence goal score.

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