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Old
01-08-2004, 06:48 PM
  #1
Necrophile
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Lineup Change

Looking back upon our last 5 periods of hockey, it would seem that our lineup needs to be modified sooner or later. Perhaps Julien will try different line combos against Pittsburgh Saturday?

Current lineup:

Bulis - Koivu - Ryder
Zednik - Ribeiro - Dagenais
Sundstrom - Juneau - Dackell
Langdon - Perreault - Ward

While our top line is doing well, some consider it would benefit from substituting Bulis with Zednik.

The main problem is with our 2nd line. When Ribeiro doesn't show up, that line is doomed. Combine that with Ribeiro's unconvincing play of late, and you get fans who are demanding that the line gets dismantled.

The third line is doing well, although some would prefer to see someone else centering that line. IMO, that would be difficult to do before next season. Bulis, Gratton, Plekanec, Bégin are names that have been mentioned to replace Juneau, but Joé has been doing a good job when he has been healthy and his experience and veteran status will help him keep that 3rd line centering job.

And now the fourth line. Langdon and Ward are doing their jobs, bringing pugilistic abilities as well as energetic and physical play. However, Perreault is definitely not as good as Bégin (at least in a 4th line centering role).

Finally, our special teams are doing an excellent job, so I don't feel a change is required there.

What I'd like to know is: 1) Do you agree with the necessity of a lineup change, and 2) How would you change the lines if you had to.

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Old
01-08-2004, 06:51 PM
  #2
habsfansam
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the lineup looked fine... zednik looked like ****.

tonight the habs simply ran into a better team who was due for a big game, and got one. we easily could have been up 4-0 at the end of the first if some of the hot shots from the slot had gotten past TB's netminder (Grahame??)

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Old
01-08-2004, 08:18 PM
  #3
Kirk Muller
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I have no problem tinkering with the lineup, but damn, its FIVE PERIODS. Personally, the only moves I think that make sense that would and could have an impact is moving Zednik back to the top line.

Frankly the second line is never going to be a consistent threat with the current lineup for one simple reason; Ribeiro has yet to find any consistency so far, combine him with inconsistent linemates and it spells problems. That truly is the main problem because successful teams need some sort of consistent secondary scoring.

At this point, we aren't going to see many lineup changes barring a trade. Really there are only a few movements that make much sense, and it might be the best the habs can ince.

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Old
01-08-2004, 08:29 PM
  #4
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i'm really looking forward to balej, perezhogin and kastsystin making the team. these guys have more pure shooting skills than almost anyone on our current roster. if there is one thing we need it is more snipers who can bury chances. right now, the habs are a pretty chippy team in the offensive zone.

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Old
01-08-2004, 10:45 PM
  #5
VirginiaMtlExpat
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"consistent secondary scoring"

Seems like an oxymoron to me. Even "consistent scoring" is an oxymoron, unless your name is Peter Forsberg. The mighty Flyers have hit a dry spell now and then this year, on all lines, as did the Sens earlier this season, as has the offensive juggernaut of the Wings lately.

The notion of consistent scoring is an illusion. If you want to measure a good young contributor, who might actually continue to improve given the chance, against an illusory standard, be my guest.

As a simple counter-example, where does the Devils' consistent secondary scoring come from?


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Old
01-09-2004, 03:42 AM
  #6
Habber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanMontrealExpat
"consistent secondary scoring"

Seems like an oxymoron to me. Even "consistent scoring" is an oxymoron, unless your name is Peter Forsberg. The mighty Flyers have hit a dry spell now and then this year, on all lines, as did the Sens earlier this season, as has the offensive juggernaut of the Wings lately.

The notion of consistent scoring is an illusion. If you want to measure a good young contributor, who might actually continue to improve given the chance, against an illusory standard, be my guest.

As a simple counter-example, where does the Devils' consistent secondary scoring come from?
I think Nash13 was alluding more to a consistent effort than scoring.

Nobody would be complaining if Ribs and Dags went out every night and played hard every shift, even if they didn't score much. Ribs rarely plays well for a whole game, often he has a good period or a few good shifts, but he also has many games where he doesn't even do that.

If you look at the Devils you may not see the 2nd line consistently score, but you will see them work hard, create chances and be responsible defensively every game.

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Old
01-09-2004, 04:09 AM
  #7
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Maybe Julien should reward Kilger's play over the last few games with a spot on the 2nd line versus Pitt.

Just a thought.

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Old
01-09-2004, 07:23 AM
  #8
Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanMontrealExpat
"consistent secondary scoring"

Seems like an oxymoron to me. Even "consistent scoring" is an oxymoron, unless your name is Peter Forsberg. The mighty Flyers have hit a dry spell now and then this year, on all lines, as did the Sens earlier this season, as has the offensive juggernaut of the Wings lately.

The notion of consistent scoring is an illusion. If you want to measure a good young contributor, who might actually continue to improve given the chance, against an illusory standard, be my guest.

As a simple counter-example, where does the Devils' consistent secondary scoring come from?

The Devils secondary scoring comes from having three lines with the ability to score, a team with lines other the top one that can score on a somewhat "consistent" basis. And keep "consistency" in NHL terms, it doesn't mean scoring a point per game. Also you must look at the flip side, keeping the puck out of the net is as good as scoring. The Devils are the best defensive team in the league.

Again keep the term "consistency" relative to hockey.

And obviously I hit a nerve with my little insert of Ribeiro being a problem as second line centre do to consistency. I really don't understand your problem with that, fact is he has racked up points versus some very bad teams, fact is he has disappeared far too often. I didn't say he couldn't improve on this, I didn't say he didn't deserve a chance to.

Good teams, contenders, have multiple lines with the ability to keep the puck out of there net, score and create scoring chances. The sad truth is, only one line does that. And don't take secondary scoring in just the second line, that includes the other two as well, but the second line is the most important in terms of secondary scoring.

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Old
01-09-2004, 08:07 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrophile
The main problem is with our 2nd line. When Ribeiro doesn't show up, that line is doomed. Combine that with Ribeiro's unconvincing play of late, and you get fans who are demanding that the line gets dismantled.

What I'd like to know is: 1) Do you agree with the necessity of a lineup change, and 2) How would you change the lines if you had to.
I think Ribeiro needs a benching, just to snap him out of his bad habits. He has gone soft again over the past few games, and he was particularly dreadful in the defensive zone against the Lightning. It really looked to be the Tampa game-plan to exploit his weakness down low along the boards.

I'm not calling for his demotion or expulsion, just a benching. Perreault is not a 4th line player, and he needs to play. It's a perfect oppurtunity to showcase him for a potential trade. It is also a good oppurtunity to get some game time for Plekanec against a very weak team in Pittsburgh. His presence should at least stimulate Ribeiro to start playing better.

The rest of the line-up is more or less fine. It's just that when Ribeiro goes soft and reverts to his bad habits, the entire 2nd line becomes a liability. It cannot be good for team chemistry to have him continue to play poorly while Perreault languishes on the 4th line.

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Old
01-09-2004, 08:40 AM
  #10
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I don't know what you are talking about, the first line didn't do anything last night. Ribeiro's line at least looked at least a little bit dangerous. And what was Ryder, -3? I think Julien will have a talk to his team and at least start the next game with the same combinations, but if they don't look good, someone could loose their place.

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Old
01-09-2004, 09:01 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breenger
I don't know what you are talking about, the first line didn't do anything last night. Ribeiro's line at least looked at least a little bit dangerous. And what was Ryder, -3? I think Julien will have a talk to his team and at least start the next game with the same combinations, but if they don't look good, someone could loose their place.
I think you've got it all wrong. Ryder didn't get his -3 when he was playing on his regular line. One minus occurred when Modin scored the shorthanded goal, the other two when he was on the ice at even strength with Ribeiro, not Koivu. Did you notice that Koivu was only -1? That came from the shorthanded goal, when he was on the ice along with Ryder, Ribeiro, Zednik and Souray on the power play, not on his regular line shift. Ribeiro and Ryder both stank last night.

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Old
01-09-2004, 10:55 AM
  #12
Breenger
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Well, I wasn't impressed by any of the lines last night, but Ribero wasn't the only one that didn't show up. When you're outshot 27-15, I don't think there are many positives.
Let's just hope they rebound next game, because, before this game, they were playing some pretty good hockey.

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