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Would you be satisified with a 20 point improvement this season?

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09-26-2007, 11:07 AM
  #1
Allsmokenopancake
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Would you be satisified with a 20 point improvement this season?

I put this to the OB too, just curious on what you will consider success or failure this season?


If the caps go from 70 to 90 points this season, will you consider the season a success.

That total would not have been enough to get them into the playoffs last season, but it would be a marked improvement from last year.

Or will anything shy of the playoffs this year, be considered a failure?

Would 88 points and the playoffs be success, while 94 and missing the playoffs be a failure.

Do you measure success in points or playoffs?

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09-26-2007, 11:15 AM
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IMO a 20 point improvement would be considered a success and would show the team is going in the right direction. Somehow getting into the playoffs would be like icing on the cake but a lot of things would need to happen for that to happen so therefor not likely.

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09-26-2007, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allsmokenopancake View Post
I put this to the OB too, just curious on what you will consider success or failure this season?


If the caps go from 70 to 90 points this season, will you consider the season a success.

That total would not have been enough to get them into the playoffs last season, but it would be a marked improvement from last year.

Or will anything shy of the playoffs this year, be considered a failure?

Would 88 points and the playoffs be success, while 94 and missing the playoffs be a failure.

Do you measure success in points or playoffs?

Hmm....great question. 20 points would likely still have us out of the playoffs, just missing, and I think that could be a REAL possibility.

I guess the answer is yes I would be satisfied that they showed a large improvement, but missing the playoffs by a few points would be incredibly frustrating.

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09-26-2007, 12:00 PM
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Depends. Management has said the goal this year is the playoffs, so anything short of that would be a short term failure. But 20 points is 20 points. Thats a hell of a lot of improvement

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09-26-2007, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allsmokenopancake View Post
Do you measure success in points or playoffs?
I measure success in winning the Stanley Cup.

But within the context of the Caps and '07-'08, substantial improvement in every facet of the game and a good deal of maturation among their young talent would be hopeful progress for the long-term development of the team.

I hope they reach the playoffs--and that's clearly the goal set by the management and the players--but if they're battling for one of the last spots and just fall short then there's still a lot of good to take away from the season. Just being a competitive team in the playoff run for 82 games would be huge for the team. Playing the spoiler in March and April has its fun but it doesn't compare to actually playing meaningful hockey right up until the end of the season.

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09-26-2007, 01:03 PM
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A 20 point increase would be a fantastic season IMO.

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09-26-2007, 01:09 PM
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On the one hand, a 20 point improvement is nothing to be ashamed of.

But I am measuring this season not on points or playoffs, but on competitiveness. Are the Caps a good team? Are they a playoff contender? Do they have a respectable chance of winning any given game? Do other teams look at them as an easy out or a tough matchup?

If they miss the playoffs I will be disappointed, yes, but I will be satisfied if they are serious contenders. Putting a point value on it is not relevant to me because it's a side issue.

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09-26-2007, 01:37 PM
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standings points can be very relative. 20pts might mean made the playoffs or were not close depending on how other teams did.

they have said they are going for the playoffs. improved but out of the playoffs would be a failure. it would be an improvement, but not enough of one.

I suspect that a 20 pt improvement with a playoff miss would be acceptable depending on the details of how it ended up that they missed. Did they come out of the gate strong and collapse? fired coach if that happens. Did they fall on their face and come on strong? maybe a fired coach in there too. I think they will have to start solid and get better, but just fall short. I think a lot of other scenarios are bad news for the Caps.

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09-26-2007, 01:43 PM
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depends on how it shakes out.....

keep in mind that the team should have had more points last season, at least IMO. This team was a seller at the deadline last season, something I dont wasnt to see this season.

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09-26-2007, 02:18 PM
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I expect a standings improvement, but not sure if any single points increase number determines if the season was a success. I'd be happy if the team was still within playoff striking distance by the trade deadline. That shows that they are competitive again, which is what this season should be about. I don't expect them to make the playoffs, but fall just short

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09-26-2007, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post

I suspect that a 20 pt improvement with a playoff miss would be acceptable depending on the details of how it ended up that they missed. Did they come out of the gate strong and collapse? fired coach if that happens. Did they fall on their face and come on strong? maybe a fired coach in there too. I think they will have to start solid and get better, but just fall short. I think a lot of other scenarios are bad news for the Caps.

I love it....a 20 point improvement means fire the coach. Ponderous....effing ponderous.

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09-26-2007, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSF76 View Post
On the one hand, a 20 point improvement is nothing to be ashamed of.

But I am measuring this season not on points or playoffs, but on competitiveness. Are the Caps a good team? Are they a playoff contender? Do they have a respectable chance of winning any given game? Do other teams look at them as an easy out or a tough matchup?

If they miss the playoffs I will be disappointed, yes, but I will be satisfied if they are serious contenders. Putting a point value on it is not relevant to me because it's a side issue.
This is where I was going to go as well. I'm much more concerned about building organizational momentum for the longterm than squeeking in as a #8 seed this year. Obviously, the playoffs would be awesome. But more to the point, I want to see progress in key areas. I want to see Hanlon figure out the perfect combo for the top 2 lines so that we can go into 2008-2009 with an intact unit who is accustomed to playing together. I want to see the 2nd PP unit gain some traction. I want to see Backstrom and Flash/Fehr prove themselves worthy as top 6 players. Perhaps most crucial, I want the defense situation to sort itself out. I suppose that means that one or two of the youngsters makes the leap and asserts himself as a legit top 4 player and the veterans we have find chemistry together. In goal, I want Olie to stay healthy. And away from Washington, I want at least one of the two youngsters to show as much progress this year as they made last year such that we can slowly begin the transition to the post-Kolzig era in '08-'09 without derailing all the other progress we have made in other areas.

If we can pull these things off, a big point boost is inevitable. But whether it's 15 points, 20 points or whatever, if we are making major strides and playing consistent competitive hockey, we have SO MUCH to look forward to in the future that I won't let missing out on a playoff spot dull my enthusiasm.


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Old
09-26-2007, 03:10 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
If we can pull these things off, a big point boost is inevitable. But whether it's 15 points, 20 points or whatever, if we are making major strides and playing consistent competitive hockey, we have SO MUCH to look forward to in the future that I won't let missing out on a playoff spot dull my enthusiasm.
WC will make the playoffs this year. Semin will have a breakout year and WC and be a real contender in 2-3 years. You will just have to upgrade in goal to win it all.

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09-26-2007, 04:20 PM
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Hmm....great question. 20 points would likely still have us out of the playoffs, just missing, and I think that could be a REAL possibility.

I guess the answer is yes I would be satisfied that they showed a large improvement, but missing the playoffs by a few points would be incredibly frustrating.
Yeah, if they're going to miss the playoffs by a few points that would be disappointing. If they aren't in playoff contention then I'd rather them be near the bottom to get another top 5 draft pick.

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09-26-2007, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyIce View Post
Yeah, if they're going to miss the playoffs by a few points that would be disappointing. If they aren't in playoff contention then I'd rather them be near the bottom to get another top 5 draft pick.

I see what you're saying, but I would rather see a vast improvement this year even if it means barely missing the playoffs.

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09-26-2007, 04:57 PM
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I don't think you guys get it at all. If the Caps hit the skids straight out of the gate, Hanlon is fired then and the jump to a 20pt improvement comes at the hands of the next coach.

If the Caps are 6th in February and collapse, I find it hard to believe that with the seriously sour ending that Leonsis and McPhee will not see that a change is necessary.

Again its about the circumstances. If the Caps play well and stay in the fight all season but never get quite over the hump, then you have an improvement.

There are scenarios that cause the missed playoff spot that will not be in the same light of improvement. This is in the context of the Caps stated and upfront goal that they should be in the playoffs.

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09-26-2007, 05:41 PM
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No i wouldn't be satisfied, it's all about getting to the play-offs this year.

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09-26-2007, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
I don't think you guys get it at all. If the Caps hit the skids straight out of the gate, Hanlon is fired then and the jump to a 20pt improvement comes at the hands of the next coach.

If the Caps are 6th in February and collapse, I find it hard to believe that with the seriously sour ending that Leonsis and McPhee will not see that a change is necessary.

Again its about the circumstances. If the Caps play well and stay in the fight all season but never get quite over the hump, then you have an improvement.

There are scenarios that cause the missed playoff spot that will not be in the same light of improvement. This is in the context of the Caps stated and upfront goal that they should be in the playoffs.
I don't think you get it. If Hanlon is a glaring problem, then yes he's likely gone. If the team fights the whole way and is still an obviously young team or undermanned to some extent, I don't see how Hanlon gets fired for improving the team's record by 30%. I guess it could happen, but it would be a mistake IMO. The team has been patient for a long time in this rebuild, so why would they all of the sudden panic when the coach has a vastly better record than the previous season?

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09-26-2007, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
I don't think you guys get it at all. If the Caps hit the skids straight out of the gate, Hanlon is fired then and the jump to a 20pt improvement comes at the hands of the next coach.

If the Caps are 6th in February and collapse, I find it hard to believe that with the seriously sour ending that Leonsis and McPhee will not see that a change is necessary.

Again its about the circumstances. If the Caps play well and stay in the fight all season but never get quite over the hump, then you have an improvement.

There are scenarios that cause the missed playoff spot that will not be in the same light of improvement. This is in the context of the Caps stated and upfront goal that they should be in the playoffs.
I'm pretty sure I get it, and I really don't see how stated goals by the front office that have a clear PR slant should be the basis that smart fans use to assess realistic goals and progress of the team.

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09-27-2007, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyIce View Post
Yeah, if they're going to miss the playoffs by a few points that would be disappointing. If they aren't in playoff contention then I'd rather them be near the bottom to get another top 5 draft pick.
Why must it be an either or proposition?

Caps do not need another lottery pick - they to experience winning and some success.

I'd like that to start this season.

And to respond to Smoke's question ... I would be very happy to see a 20 point improvement ... that means the team is finding ways to win those close games.

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09-27-2007, 03:06 PM
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No Caps fan should want another bottom 5 finish for a lottery pick. That would mean that the entire plan is failing. And that guys like Morrisonn, Jurcina, Gordon, Green, and Fleischmann aren't becoming quality NHL players. The only way we should be rooting for another lottery pick is if a bottom feeder like Edmonton or Columbus signs Semin, so we can get their 2009 1st round pick and take Tavares or Viktor Hedman

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09-27-2007, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Gas House Gorilla View Post
No Caps fan should want another bottom 5 finish for a lottery pick. That would mean that the entire plan is failing. And that guys like Morrisonn, Jurcina, Gordon, Green, and Fleischmann aren't becoming quality NHL players. The only way we should be rooting for another lottery pick is if a bottom feeder like Edmonton or Columbus signs Semin, so we can get their 2009 1st round pick and take Tavares or Viktor Hedman

I just got goosebumps thinking about Tavares on the caps.

We do not need another bottom 5 pick, unless it's like Gas House said someone signs Semin.

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09-27-2007, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Gas House Gorilla View Post
No Caps fan should want another bottom 5 finish for a lottery pick. That would mean that the entire plan is failing. And that guys like Morrisonn, Jurcina, Gordon, Green, and Fleischmann aren't becoming quality NHL players. The only way we should be rooting for another lottery pick is if a bottom feeder like Edmonton or Columbus signs Semin, so we can get their 2009 1st round pick and take Tavares or Viktor Hedman
the way top 5 is shaping up, we'd probably end up taking another blueliner

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09-27-2007, 04:45 PM
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20 pts, no playoffs, finish 10-11. Sure fine with me. I'm happy so long as I can see measured improvements in the PP, PK, and GAA and in the youngsters.

The only way I see us finish bottom 5 is due to injury of 2-3 major players.

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09-27-2007, 04:49 PM
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20 pts, no playoffs, finish 10-11. Sure fine with me. I'm happy so long as I can see measured improvements in the PP, PK, and GAA and in the youngsters.

The only way I see us finish bottom 5 is due to injury of 2-3 major players.
Really, it would only take one. See: Kolzig, Olaf

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