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Old
09-26-2007, 08:19 PM
  #1
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Trade(s)?

Y'know... I've been wondering more and more about a trade as a real possibility going into the season.

The Rangers have so many good vets that they could field a cup-contending team without adding any rookies (other than Callahan, who I think of as a regular even though he's technically still a rookie). Meanwhile, there are 7 kids who are arguably ready right now to play in the league (I'm counting Staal, Sauer, Dubinsky, Anisimov, Byers, Dawes and Montoya). And HFD, which was already pretty stacked with legit NHL-potential prospects last year, has an influx of players who were in juniors or the ECHL last year all of whom deserve real ice time. Not to mention borderline veteran NHLers (Kaspar, Hutch, Fritz, Lessard, Smith - although I think he goes FA if he doesn't make the squad) in the organization who are taking someone's spot as long as the Rangers hold their rights (although, granted, you do want one or two vets in HFD for leadership).

Sather has GOT to make one or more moves to relieve this logjam (especially if no one does the team any favors by claiming Kaspar or Hutch off of waivers, which I don't see happening). Preferably before the season starts. If he doesn't, several prospects will have their growth stunted.

Now, obviously the team would LOVE to move Kaspar and probably Hutch. But a) I don't know that Glen'll get any takers for either of those two and b) I don't know that that would be enough to really provide relief!

Given all of the above, are there any rumors floating around? Any natural deals that people see happening sooner rather than later?

I know the temptation will be to say, Malik/Mara/Kaspar for picks/kids in junior from other teams, but I don't see that kind of transaction happening - at least not straight up. Looking forward to people's thoughts.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 09-26-2007 at 08:38 PM. Reason: Deficient basic math skills
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Old
09-26-2007, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Meanwhile, there are 6 kids who are arguably ready right now to play in the league (I'm counting Staal, Sauer, Dubinsky, Anisimov, Byers, Dawes and Montoya).
Isn't that 7?

Anyway, what's the rush to make deals now? Why don't we play 20 games and see what this team looks like?

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09-26-2007, 08:37 PM
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Isn't that 7?
Hahahaha. You're obviously right. I thought of the six skaters and then added Montoya. I will correct. (See? I told you there's a glut.)

As to the rush - we have players that need to play and with the logjam we have, there are going to be guys that don't get the chance to develop properly. Every month missed this year is a month they need next.

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09-26-2007, 08:54 PM
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Hahahaha. You're obviously right. I thought of the six skaters and then added Montoya. I will correct. (See? I told you there's a glut.)

As to the rush - we have players that need to play and with the logjam we have, there are going to be guys that don't get the chance to develop properly. Every month missed this year is a month they need next.
Well, what's to say they won't get the chance to develop properly? Most people here seem to believe that prospects would be better off getting quality minutes in Hartford over more minimal roles on Broadway.

But assuming you're right, I'd rather the organization take a good look at the team on the ice, as opposed to the team on paper, to determine where they could use improvement. If they can find that from within, great. If not, then at least they've got plenty of pieces to help make it happen. Either way, considering we haven't played a meaningful game yet, I think it's premature.

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09-26-2007, 09:04 PM
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lets see what we got first, we missing that least piece to make a real run, swing a deal, but not now, plus it'll screw up the chemisrty even more.

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09-26-2007, 09:35 PM
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lets see what we got first, we missing that least piece to make a real run, swing a deal, but not now, plus it'll screw up the chemisrty even more.
I hear what you're saying when it comes to the Rangers. Indeed, I don't think there's a lot we could do on the big club other than upgrade one of our many #4 Dmen to a legit top pairing guy. BUT what about HFD? I was thinking more about clearing room there.

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09-26-2007, 09:58 PM
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agreed, i think there are 3 or 4 guys that should be traded for low level draft picks just so our guys in HFD can get enough playing time......Hutchinson, Kaspar, Smith

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09-26-2007, 10:00 PM
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I'd like to see Prucha in a Canucks' uniform, not sure the Canucks would have what the Rangers want as picks/prospects are the most logical trade chips.

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09-26-2007, 10:05 PM
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I'd like to see Prucha in a Canucks' uniform, not sure the Canucks would have what the Rangers want as picks/prospects are the most logical trade chips.
Prucha would cut his salary in half to stay in NY.

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09-26-2007, 10:08 PM
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Y'know... I've been wondering more and more about a trade as a real possibility going into the season.

The Rangers have so many good vets that they could field a cup-contending team without adding any rookies (other than Callahan, who I think of as a regular even though he's technically still a rookie)]]. Meanwhile, there are 7 kids who are arguably ready right now to play in the league (I'm counting Staal, Sauer, Dubinsky, Anisimov, Byers, Dawes and Montoya). And HFD, which was already pretty stacked with legit NHL-potential prospects last year, has an influx of players who were in juniors or the ECHL last year all of whom deserve real ice time. Not to mention borderline veteran NHLers (Kaspar, Hutch, Fritz, Lessard, Smith - although I think he goes FA if he doesn't make the squad) in the organization who are taking someone's spot as long as the Rangers hold their rights (although, granted, you do want one or two vets in HFD for leadership).

Sather has GOT to make one or more moves to relieve this logjam (especially if no one does the team any favors by claiming Kaspar or Hutch off of waivers, which I don't see happening). Preferably before the season starts. If he doesn't, several prospects will have their growth stunted.

Now, obviously the team would LOVE to move Kaspar and probably Hutch. But a) I don't know that Glen'll get any takers for either of those two and b) I don't know that that would be enough to really provide relief!

Given all of the above, are there any rumors floating around? Any natural deals that people see happening sooner rather than later?

I know the temptation will be to say, Malik/Mara/Kaspar for picks/kids in junior from other teams, but I don't see that kind of transaction happening - at least not straight up. Looking forward to people's thoughts.
I hate to break the news to you, but this is the plan; veterans (with a few rookies for energy during the regular season) win Stanley Cups, the goal of this organization is to win a Stanley Cup this season. If there are any trades, it will not be to get a prospect into the lineup--it will be because management feels that the current roster is not strong enough to win a Stanley Cup. If there are any veterans traded, it will only be to free up cap space in order to bring in an "impact" player (probably a defenseman) or another experienced role player.

In any case, of the 7 prospects you mention only two have played more than one season professionally--chances are keeping them in the minors won't destroy their potential. They will also be used to provide some jump when players get injured during the season. And while yes, there is a lot of new faces coming into the organization from Juniors , in reality, you can't field an AHL team of 1st and 2nd year professionals without some veteran leadership, so the "logjam" in Hartford will not really be affected by having a couple of veterans like Kaspar and Smith (if he's actually signed to a contract) around either.

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09-26-2007, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
Prucha would cut his salary in half to stay in NY.
Prucha has a wonderful attitude but he has no control over his situation. Sather didn't ask Leetch if he wanted to be traded, he's certainly not going to be concerned about what Prucha would prefer.

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09-26-2007, 10:28 PM
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agreed, i think there are 3 or 4 guys that should be traded for low level draft picks just so our guys in HFD can get enough playing time......Hutchinson, Kaspar, Smith
The only guy you may get something for is Kaspar. Smith was released from his tryout. Hutch is already on waiver for free. Maybe the Rangers can make a deal for a team to take Kaspar on re-entry waivers where the Rangers would pick up half his contract. Problem is he may get picked by a team before the team the Rangers have the deal with can make the claim.

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09-26-2007, 10:29 PM
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I hate to break the news to you, but this is the plan; veterans (with a few rookies for energy during the regular season) win Stanley Cups, the goal of this organization is to win a Stanley Cup this season. If there are any trades, it will not be to get a prospect into the lineup--it will be because management feels that the current roster is not strong enough to win a Stanley Cup. If there are any veterans traded, it will only be to free up cap space in order to bring in an "impact" player (probably a defenseman) or another experienced role player.

In any case, of the 7 prospects you mention only two have played more than one season professionally--chances are keeping them in the minors won't destroy their potential. They will also be used to provide some jump when players get injured during the season. And while yes, there is a lot of new faces coming into the organization from Juniors , in reality, you can't field an AHL team of 1st and 2nd year professionals without some veteran leadership, so the "logjam" in Hartford will not really be affected by having a couple of veterans like Kaspar and Smith (if he's actually signed to a contract) around either.
Um, Brooklyn, before you jump all over me, please read all of my posts in the thread. Specifically, in this case, post #6. I KNOW that's the plan - and I fully endorse it. I only really want to see Staal and perhaps Dubinsky on the Rangers to start the season.

Nowhere was I implying that Sather should move 4 guys on the big club to make room for 4 of the 7 prospects listed. Rather I mentioned them as indicative of what kind of glut we're facing (since we've got a full HFD squad without them!) and my concern that we have an overabundance of 19-22 year olds that aren't going to get the kind of time they need in the AHL to develop their games properly.

And yes, there IS a logjam in HFD (especially because you DO need some vets on the team), unless you want to send a bunch of guys who should be playing in the A to the ECHL (yeah, right, Hugh will learn how to keep his balance properly against a league full of guys who have the same problem) or let assets go for free.

Personally, I'd prefer to move some of these kids for assets that will mature later (unless that impact Dman is available of course) rather than have them rot on the vine or go elsewhere for free.

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Old
09-26-2007, 11:13 PM
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There are certain components, or even stereotypes that you want to have on an AHL team. Of course, you want the team to be loaded with youth. But then there's also a pick and choose game that goes on with veterans and what kinds of player to stash down in HFD.

Even though I'd advocate a trade to get a different asset for Dawes, management might want to hold on to him and have a "veteran goal scorer" to consistently help out when the other rookies don't produce. If we also had someone like Brad Smyth to do the same job (and one that he did), I'd be more inclined to get rid of Dawes. It's things like these, where you'd never guess how valuable a proven AHL goal scorer is to a young team finding itself.

With that said, I don't see the need for both Kaspar and Hutchinson.

I'm not really sure who will be blocked though. I just looked at the defenders and it seems okay...I doubt guys like Maslonka, Constant, Barthel, Hartwick are serious AHL prospects currently. I count only nine forwards who definately need playing time in Jessiman, Bourret, Korpikoski, Byers, Moore, Graham, Pyatt, Dupont, and one of Dawes/Dubinsky. I see Hunter and Barnes as no different than Jessiman and can start in the ECHL.

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09-26-2007, 11:19 PM
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Oh how trades are a drug to fans...especially needless trades...

what's the rush to make a trade?

with the possible exception to the loser of the Dawes/Dubinsky battle EVERY prospect and young player is in exactly the right place...what's the rush to making a move....

The Rangers were so bad for so long a whole generation can't recognize what depth looks like...

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09-27-2007, 12:46 AM
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Um, Brooklyn, before you jump all over me, please read all of my posts in the thread. Specifically, in this case, post #6. I KNOW that's the plan - and I fully endorse it. I only really want to see Staal and perhaps Dubinsky on the Rangers to start the season.

Nowhere was I implying that Sather should move 4 guys on the big club to make room for 4 of the 7 prospects listed. Rather I mentioned them as indicative of what kind of glut we're facing (since we've got a full HFD squad without them!) and my concern that we have an overabundance of 19-22 year olds that aren't going to get the kind of time they need in the AHL to develop their games properly.

And yes, there IS a logjam in HFD (especially because you DO need some vets on the team), unless you want to send a bunch of guys who should be playing in the A to the ECHL (yeah, right, Hugh will learn how to keep his balance properly against a league full of guys who have the same problem) or let assets go for free.

Personally, I'd prefer to move some of these kids for assets that will mature later (unless that impact Dman is available of course) rather than have them rot on the vine or go elsewhere for free.
I did read the whole thread before commenting--always do.

The only players you mentioned trading in your original post were veterans--you mentioned Kaspar, Hutch, Mara and Malik. The two who were waived clearly have no value--I'm sure Sather has talked to any and every team out there about Kaspar and Hutch and no one had any interest--especially because it was clear the Rangers would probably end up waiving them if they couldn't trade them and then another team could pick them for free. That leaves Malik and Mara, neither of whom are going anywhere unless they are part of a deal to get what Sather considers to be an upgrade on defense.

As for the prospects, which prospect would you trade to open up space in the minors? Without knowing who you'd be willing to trade, I will only say this: prospects generally have more value to the organization that picked them than they do to any other team. I doubt that most of the prospects considered expendable would get much more than a late round draft pick or some other prospect with just as many issues, if even that. And I don't think Sather will be making those kind of trades--I think he likes the idea of lots of competition for playing time in the AHL, especially for a player like Jessimen who has already used up most of his chances. As far as Sather is concerned, if a prospect can't earn playing time in Hartford, then it's off to the ECHL and good riddance until they can work their way back up to the AHL.

Will there be trades at some point--sure, but they will be made because the goal will be to get better now, not for some future asset that may work out in 4-6 years.

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Old
09-27-2007, 01:16 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Oh how trades are a drug to fans...especially needless trades...

what's the rush to make a trade?

with the possible exception to the loser of the Dawes/Dubinsky battle EVERY prospect and young player is in exactly the right place...what's the rush to making a move....

The Rangers were so bad for so long a whole generation can't recognize what depth looks like...
SOS, I am in complete and total agreement with you on this....and that's saying something

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09-27-2007, 04:42 AM
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What clutter?Clear up what?Growth stunted?

Baranka,Sauer,Potter,Liffiton,Kasparaitis in Hartford.If Hutchinson clears,it's six

Busto could end up in Charlotte.Taylor has an AHL contract

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09-27-2007, 04:46 AM
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The only guy you may get something for is Kaspar. Smith was released from his tryout. Hutch is already on waiver for free. Maybe the Rangers can make a deal for a team to take Kaspar on re-entry waivers where the Rangers would pick up half his contract. Problem is he may get picked by a team before the team the Rangers have the deal with can make the claim.
Why would the Rangers put Kasparaitis on re-entry waivers and take 1/2 the cap hit when they are taking no cap hit with him being in Hartford?

How does that help the Rangers who will need every cap dollar of the $50.3 million to operate the team?

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09-27-2007, 05:50 AM
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count only nine forwards who definately need playing time in Jessiman, Bourret, Korpikoski, Byers, Moore, Graham, Pyatt, Dupont, and one of Dawes/Dubinsky. I see Hunter and Barnes as no different than Jessiman and can start in the ECHL.
REGARDING FORWARDS
  1. Bourret
  2. Korpedo
  3. Dawes/Dubinsky
  4. Jessiman
  5. Byers
  6. Moore
  7. Pyatt
  8. Dupont
  9. Graham

I believe you forgot that Anisimov is definitely going to be there - if he does not (PROBABLY NOT YET??) make the big squad immediately
Barnes will probably be there in Hartford too - as he is a higher pick that needs to be evaluated

I am uncertain about the situation with Jordan Owens (who played so very well in Traverse City)
Kozak, Skokan, Kveton & Zaborsky are probably not going to make the squad. But who knows?
Mitch Fritz has been bought in to be there as insurance to protect the kids
So will (probably) Lessard

That makes at least 14 players - excluding M Smith (who will probably be let go altogether - unless he is willing to be the eventual "Brad Isbister of 2008") But one more veteran AHL:er/borderline NHL:er will probably be added to the squad to provide leadership (if that is not assumed to be on the squad through the defense).

It is a bit crowded at forward - so room will have to be made - one way or the other. No big deal really. Just do it.

REGARDING DEFENDERS
  1. Baranka
  2. Sauer
  3. Potter
  4. Liffiton
  5. Kasparaitis
  6. Hutchinsson
  7. Busto

7 players to start with

REGARDING GOALIES
Monty in goal
Holt/Wiikman as backup

This team (adding Cherry) would compete in the bottom of the NHL imo
Not bad


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Old
09-27-2007, 07:09 AM
  #21
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BBkers--Zaborsky is in Saginaw (OHL) playing with his junior team and Skokan is in Rimouski (QMJHL) doing the same so you can count both of them out. Kveton last I heard was in Europe trying to hook up with a Czech elite team.

Hartford will look something like this IMO:

Forwards--Dawes, Anisimov, Bourret, Byers, Korpikoski, Jessiman, Pyatt, Dupont, Moore, Barnes, Owens, Lessard, Fritz.

Defense--Sauer, Baranka, Kasparaitis, Hutchison (if he clears), Liffiton, Potter, Taylor, Busto or Barthel.

Goal--Hopefully Montoya makes the big club--but it's either him or Valiquette with Wiikman probably as the backup.

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09-27-2007, 07:24 AM
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Perhaps I should have been more specific. Here is the glut I'm referring to:

Goalie: Montoya, Wiikman, Holt (I don't know a thing about the Zaba kid, so I assume he's ticketed for Charlotte) - I don't consider Holt much of a prospect, so I'll grant you there isn't much of a problem in goal

The problem I see is among skaters. I count multiple extra players that should be getting real ice time in HFD, even after eliminating borderline guys who appear like they're clearly going to ECHL even though they could make an argument to stay (e.g. Barnes).

Defense: Baranka, Busto, Hutchinsson, Kasparaitis, Liffiton, Potter, Sauer, Taylor (and this assumes that both Staal and Pock stay up)

Forwards: Anisimov, Bourret, Byers, Dawes, Dupont, Fritz, Graham, Hunter, Jessiman, Korpikoski, Kozak, Lessard, Moore, Owens, Pyatt (and this assumes that at least Dubinsky stays up)

And this is without the benefit of knowing what's going on in training camp - if a Lee or Barthel is really impressing Gernander, it gets even more crowded.


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Old
09-27-2007, 06:07 PM
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Sorry, I just don't see a problem. There is no roster limit in the AHL so the Wolfpack and carry 22-24 players and there is a limit on the number of "experienced professionals" (either 4 or 5) who can dress for any given game. Some of the players you mention haven't really proven worthy of playing in the AHL (Kozak) and others have not impressed to this point (Busto, who lost out on coming to the Ranger training camp because of his "performance" at the rookie turnament and Bouret--who the Rangers sent down early because of conditioning issues, this according to Larry Brooks).

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09-27-2007, 06:27 PM
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Sorry, I just don't see a problem. There is no roster limit in the AHL so the Wolfpack and carry 22-24 players and there is a limit on the number of "experienced professionals" (either 4 or 5) who can dress for any given game. Some of the players you mention haven't really proven worthy of playing in the AHL (Kozak) and others have not impressed to this point (Busto, who lost out on coming to the Ranger training camp because of his "performance" at the rookie turnament and Bouret--who the Rangers sent down early because of conditioning issues, this according to Larry Brooks).
i understand what your saying however if HFD carries 24 or so guys, then our prospects wont be getting enough ice-time because some will have to be benched....the point of having them play here is so they get ice-time, or else they could be with the rangers

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09-27-2007, 06:45 PM
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i understand what your saying however if HFD carries 24 or so guys, then our prospects wont be getting enough ice-time because some will have to be benched....the point of having them play here is so they get ice-time, or else they could be with the rangers
The point of having a prospect in the AHL is for them to learn how to play professional hockey. They will practice and if they earn the ice time, they will play in games. Also, remember that many times, AHL teams play 3 games in 3 days, there will be plenty of ice time to go around.

Also, carrying 24 players is not unusual at all. Only 18 or 19 players dress on any given night.

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