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BUCCI - West preview - Jackets 14th in west

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Old
09-28-2007, 11:11 AM
  #101
Matthew
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Lazy no.....he is a great writer but he does have 30 teams to cover. 14th? no, we should be 10th. But I'll tell ya, if we don't find a 1st line center who can compliment our two best forwards Nash and Vyborny soon, I may change to 15th....
Yeah, the lack of finding the answers to the problems this team came into camp with is starting to make me feel pessimistic as well.

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09-28-2007, 11:14 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Alrightly then, next topic....
No, I'd like to stick with this one for a moment. Why would you call me a sheep with reading comprehension problems? I've read all that willien has to say at this stage, and I don't believe that she's just doing some objective analysis of Buccigross's journalistic abilities. I think her main problem is that he thinks that the Jackets aren't much different from last year.

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09-28-2007, 11:19 AM
  #103
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After last nights game, I do have to say I am a little worried. I am just hoping the team building excerises just wore everyone out and that had due to with them being about one step behind on everything.

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Old
09-28-2007, 11:38 AM
  #104
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I would have no problem if the argument were a simple disagreement with Bucci’s assessment.

Yo, Bucci. I think you sold this team a little short.
Cool.

But the argument here is that the writer is lazy because his perfectly valid assessment of this team does not jibe with what a few CBJ fans think.
He’s obviously bad at his job.

Agree/disagree doesn't always equal good job/bad job, no matter how many people want to paint the situation as such.

There are plenty of posters here I disagree with, but that doesn't mean that valid, logical arguments aren't being made by their side (even if they're wrong ).

Like I said before, I can’t wait for the CBJ to surprise folks this year and get one of Bucci’s glowing hockey love letters about Hitch and character and whatnot. I’ll be curious to hear the debate about Bucci’s journalistic abilities at that point. I doubt he'll be receiving additional journalism training in the meantime.

What makes this discussion increasingly amusing is the repeated insistence by some that they don’t care about being deemed 14th in west.
Could’ve fooled me.

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Old
09-28-2007, 11:46 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
No, I'd like to stick with this one for a moment. Why would you call me a sheep with reading comprehension problems? I've read all that willien has to say at this stage, and I don't believe that she's just doing some objective analysis of Buccigross's journalistic abilities. I think her main problem is that he thinks that the Jackets aren't much different from last year.
I said you found another sheep with a reading comprehension problem. Not that YOU were a sheep. If you look through the thread there are many people that keep harping on the 14th place prediction when referencing the "lazy" journalism.

People aren't understanding the 14th place prediction is not what Willen and I (who are calling it lazy) are focusing on. He could have said 4th in the conference and I (and probably willen as well) would still have called it lazy. However, from your posts, I still don't think you've understood that yet.

If you can't see the difference from my "prediction" and Bucci's, I would say that the media of today are save from actually having to do any real research or work. However, with the popularity of Rome, that doesn't surprise me.

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09-28-2007, 11:52 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
But the argument here is that the writer is lazy because his perfectly valid assessment of this team does not jibe with what a few CBJ fans think. Hes obviously bad at his job.
There wasn't anything wrong with his assement, other then he didn't do one. There was nothing that he said that involved any real research with this team.

I didn't say he was bad at his job. I acknowledged I don't know his history, his other stuff I might like. I have no idea if he's good or bad at his job. It's just one example.

Why do people go from being critical of an article to an opinion that I think he's bad at his job?

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09-28-2007, 11:55 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
People aren't understanding the 14th place prediction is not what Willen and I (who are calling it lazy) are focusing on. He could have said 4th in the conference and I (and probably willen as well) would still have called it lazy. However, from your posts, I still don't think you've understood that yet.
You're absolutely dead wrong. I understand that.

I don't believe it to be true.

Not that you or willien are lying. I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that I don't think it's fair to call the writer lazy for what the writer has done. He's come to the same conclusion as just about everyone else in a column that's meant to be a short preview of each team. It's not a deep dive into any of the teams, including the Jackets. The "culture change" is irrelevant, or at least only a small portion of evaluating the Jackets in the coming season. When you compare the team at a personnel level to other teams in the conference, especially when you include last year's results, it's simply impossible to predict that the Jackets will be in the middle of the conference pack. They might end up there, but it's not lazy journalism to predict that they won't considering all the information.

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09-28-2007, 12:09 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
There wasn't anything wrong with his assement, other then he didn't do one. There was nothing that he said that involved any real research with this team.

I didn't say he was bad at his job. I acknowledged I don't know his history, his other stuff I might like. I have no idea if he's good or bad at his job. It's just one example.

Why do people go from being critical of an article to an opinion that I think he's bad at his job?
Lazy isn't a complement in my book.

Your writeup on the CBJ, as admitted by you, was culled in a short amount of time based on things you read on the Internet. That easily could be classified as lazy as well.

Yet you and others endorsed it as an example of an acceptable piece that Bucci could've produced.
What's the major difference between yours and his? Yours was more positive. Also, for what its worth, a valid point, but it was nothing that invalidated the author's point nor indicates that he did a bad job.

So forgive me if I misunderstand your complaint as having nothing to do with the conclusion made by the writer.

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Old
09-28-2007, 12:45 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
There wasn't anything wrong with his assement, other then he didn't do one. There was nothing that he said that involved any real research with this team.
That's your opinion, based on what?

Quote:
I didn't say he was bad at his job.
You called him lazy. What are you saying? He's lazy but good? Nice contradiction there.

I get it. You didn't like his assessment, so you threw out the red herring of "he's lazy" when in fact you have no idea what research he did.

Keep drinking the koolaid.

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Old
09-28-2007, 01:44 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Cyberslacker View Post
That's your opinion, based on what?



You called him lazy. What are you saying? He's lazy but good? Nice contradiction there.

I get it. You didn't like his assessment, so you threw out the red herring of "he's lazy" when in fact you have no idea what research he did.

Keep drinking the koolaid.
Oh my god, what koolaid? Are you thinking that I somehow think we are a "in" for the playoffs?

Ok, last attempt....

1. Did he address any of the change in play, post Hitchcock arrival? From individual players or as a team?
2. Did he talk about any holes in the team? Whether they were addressed?
3. Did he talk about any of the Jackets rookies and what impact they could have on the team? For example Russell and/or Brassard, even to comment of if they were ready or might help this team?
4. Did he discuss any of our younger players, such as Brule or Fritsche and what their play could mean to this team? Brule has the potential to fill a major hole in this team?
5. Did he discuss what went wrong with this team last year? For example, does he even have any idea what was wrong with our PP or PK? Does he have any idea that we have a problem getting the puck to the net and fixing that will improve both our PP and 5 on 5 play?
6. Did he address anything that went right with this team after Hitch's arrival? For example, we started beating some good teams on the road? Did he talk about our better play 5 on 5? For example, many of our top players started to become + players for us over the last 35 games or so?

The answer is no, he didn't talk about any of it.

1. He talked about how, through all our suckinees, we only have one of the top players of the last few drafts. While true, it provides little or no value, beyond pointing fingers at our old GM and pointing out that we might have been better off if Dougie had tried and tanked even more the what we did.

2. He talked about the fact that Foote and Feds are in the last year of their contracts, so they come off the books. While nice discussion for next year, it has no value in talking about what they are going to do or not do this year and how they fit into the 14th place finish.

3. So he wrapped up with "In conclusion, even though I haven't said why, the Jackets aren't going to make the playoff's, they're rebuilding. I haven't said why they are going to go from 11th to 14th, but they are! I need nothing else then point at last years record and say they haven't added anyone!"

Serioulsy, the point of this column was to count down the 15 teams in each conference and where they are going to finish. He barely mentioned anything that had an indirect effect on this year, and talked more about next year. He said 14th, but he didn't defend it or explain it.

Now going back to your point about my contradiction. Not everything in life you do is going to be your best work, every time. I wasn't impressed with this one. I could read his next article and be quite impressed. Even within an article you can have differences in quality. Also, I said it was a lazy article, not that he was lazy. Yes, there is a difference. Also, I guess the concept of constructive criticism is missed on you?

I tried to give an example of what an article might look like if someone bothered to do any real analysis on our team, to try and defend my posistion and try to give you an idea of something I would find at least crediable and would at least say someone tried.

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Old
09-28-2007, 01:54 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
You're absolutely dead wrong. I understand that.

I don't believe it to be true.

Not that you or willien are lying. I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that I don't think it's fair to call the writer lazy for what the writer has done. He's come to the same conclusion as just about everyone else in a column that's meant to be a short preview of each team. It's not a deep dive into any of the teams, including the Jackets.
Please read my point above. He was listing the order of finish for the top 15 teams and did nothing to illustrate why he picked 14th. All he did was talk about next year and our lack of top talent from previous drafts.

There was nothing good, insightful, thought provoking, entertaining, or showed that knew anything about the Jackets or cared to know anything about them.

If your going to produce an prediction article, at least talk about why your predicting something. He said almost nothing as to why he picked 14th. I can it lazy, you call it whatever you want.

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09-28-2007, 02:00 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
Lazy isn't a complement in my book.

Your writeup on the CBJ, as admitted by you, was culled in a short amount of time based on things you read on the Internet. That easily could be classified as lazy as well.

Yet you and others endorsed it as an example of an acceptable piece that Bucci could've produced.
What's the major difference between yours and his? Yours was more positive. Also, for what its worth, a valid point, but it was nothing that invalidated the author's point nor indicates that he did a bad job.

So forgive me if I misunderstand your complaint as having nothing to do with the conclusion made by the writer.
What I am saying is that I bothered to looked for something that was actually relevant to this team and it's performance. I talked about what went right, what went wrong, the holes and what the team tried to do to address them. I gave both positives and negatives.

If someone does their reseach and predicts 14th, I have no problem with that. I might disagree, but I would respect their work. As I said before, if you don't understand the difference, I can't help you.

For all the chatter going on, no one has bothered to notice that I have predicted the Jackets will compete with a playoff spot, nothing more, nothing less. I'm not saying this team is the greatest thing ever. I know the holes and I know the problems they are going to face. So why would I care if someone picks us at 14th? An injury to Nash and Norenna might very well make 14th a reality.

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09-28-2007, 02:14 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
What I am saying is that I bothered to looked for something that was actually relevant to this team and it's performance. I talked about what went right, what went wrong, the holes and what the team tried to do to address them. I gave both positives and negatives.

If someone does their reseach and predicts 14th, I have no problem with that. I might disagree, but I would respect their work. As I said before, if you don't understand the difference, I can't help you.
PoTAYto, poTAHto.
Still sounds to me that your quibble is the conclusion.

The writer’s points:

Quote:
The Columbus Blue Jackets have never had a foundation and, thus, are in repair. GM Doug MacLean's impatience and shortsightedness cost the Blue Jackets.
Quote:
The Blue Jackets made no significant signings in the summer.
Quote:
Sergei Fedorov and Adam Foote are in the last year of their deals, which pay them salaries far exceeding their current value. Fedorov makes over $6 million and Foote is at $4.6 million. That's over $10 million that will be off the books. The plan this year is simple: 1) Play the young players in all key situations; 2) Begin to plan for Fedorov and Foote deadline deals now.
Quote:
While you are at it, see if anyone will bite on Nikolai Zherdev. The Jackets tested him as the No. 1 center in camp with the hopes of lighting a fire under his keister. That hasn't worked and now ol' ZZZZZZ might not even be a top 6 forward in Columbus.
Quote:
They need to reboot the computer, clean out the viruses and start downloading a new plan.
Quote:
Columbus will continue to struggle to find enough offense and struggle to keep the puck out of the net on a consistent basis.
In summation:
1. Previous management left team in disarray.
2. No notable signings.
3. Overpaid, over-the-hill vets.
4. An important young player has issues.
5. This year is about housecleaning as much as anything.
6. Offensive and defensive questions.

Also worth noting that he praised Hitchcock and said Hitch and Howson are doing the right thing with this organization.

Which of these points are irrelevant?
Which of these points have no relation to the CBJ's chances of being successful this year?

EDIT: I will say this. Could there have been more info there? Absolutely. Each NHL team could probably warrant a lengthy breakdown with details of every plus and minus to the organization, but that wasn't the purpose of this piece at all. Nor is it the purpose of such rankings (which is one reason why I think its silly to get worked up over such things).

But the fact that some don't like the information used to make the judgment does not make that information or the judgment invalid.


Last edited by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe: 09-28-2007 at 02:30 PM.
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Old
09-28-2007, 02:23 PM
  #114
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This horse was dead yesterday. Lets move on to the next semi engaging topic to kill time on while we wait for the puck to drop in 7 days.

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09-28-2007, 02:26 PM
  #115
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while we wait for the puck to drop in 7 days.
I think I speak for all of us when I say this can't come soon enough.

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09-28-2007, 02:53 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
PoTAYto, poTAHto.
Still sounds to me that your quibble is the conclusion.
If you believe nothing else. Believe that I could truely care less what you, any reporter, God, Satan, your grandmother, the President, the New World Order, Santa Clause, Jessica Alba, Tiger Woods, or anyone else that exists on this planet, solar system, galaxy, universe, or in any other dimension or time - predicts the Jackets to finish this year. I don't even read prediction articles unless someone here posts them and I'm bored.

If there's anyone I forgot please forgive me, I meant to include you in the above.

However, please continue to think I what you will.

To the rest of your comments, the Zhedev comment was what I was referring to when I said he barely touched on anything relevant to the performance of this years team. The fact that they tried him out at C and that he quoted Howson, were the only things that make me believe he actually read anything over the last 10 months, about the Jackets.

What's funny is that I thought he did a better job with the other teams in that article. At least he actually reference stats other then a couple of salaries.

However, you and others seem to like what I call "Headline Reporting". So be it, this will very likely be the last time I bother commenting at all on anything related to the media. You guys seem to like that type of reporting. So I'll just sit back and keep my mouth shut. I'm not on his demographic.

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09-28-2007, 03:09 PM
  #117
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So I'll just sit back and keep my mouth shut.
If you want I can show you how to do that, since you are having such a tough time with it.

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09-28-2007, 03:25 PM
  #118
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If you want I can show you how to do that, since you are having such a tough time with it.
I do have a tough time letting things go. I think some poeple have learned a couple of my buttons and are just pushing them on purpose.

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09-28-2007, 03:26 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
If you believe nothing else. Believe that I could truely care less what you, any reporter, God, Satan, your grandmother, the President, the New World Order, Santa Clause, Jessica Alba, Tiger Woods, or anyone else that exists on this planet, solar system, galaxy, universe, or in any other dimension or time - predicts the Jackets to finish this year. I don't even read prediction articles unless someone here posts them and I'm bored.

If there's anyone I forgot please forgive me, I meant to include you in the above.

However, please continue to think I what you will.

To the rest of your comments, the Zhedev comment was what I was referring to when I said he barely touched on anything relevant to the performance of this years team. The fact that they tried him out at C and that he quoted Howson, were the only things that make me believe he actually read anything over the last 10 months, about the Jackets.

What's funny is that I thought he did a better job with the other teams in that article. At least he actually reference stats other then a couple of salaries.

However, you and others seem to like what I call "Headline Reporting". So be it, this will very likely be the last time I bother commenting at all on anything related to the media. You guys seem to like that type of reporting. So I'll just sit back and keep my mouth shut. I'm not on his demographic.
Now why'd you have to go and bring my grandma into it?

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09-28-2007, 03:34 PM
  #120
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Now why'd you have to go and bring my grandma into it?

I was hoping you would find some humor in the beginning...

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09-28-2007, 03:37 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I was hoping you would find some humor in the beginning...
Nice jousting with you.

In this nutty Internet world, we'll probably be on the same side of an argument tomorrow.


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09-28-2007, 03:45 PM
  #122
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And for what it's worth, I do think there is plenty of lazy journalism out there both inside and outside the world of sports.

I just didn't find this instance to be offensive.

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04-07-2008, 12:16 PM
  #123
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*bump*

These old "where will we finish" threads are comedy gold.

Creditos to Angry Bob and Kallio for calling this one early and often.

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04-07-2008, 12:57 PM
  #124
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My post from 9/28/07

Quote:
I think that the major reason we are being given the 14th place prediction by everyone in the world is because every team but us and Phoenix made noticeable improvements. The only significant addition the Jackets made has been injured this entire camp. So, we finished 11th last year, and everyone else improved while we stayed pat = drop 3 spots. I don't find this illogical at all.

With everything that has been happening in camp thus far, I am worried that the 14th place prediction will come true. I am an optimist, however, and hope that the Jackets can prove everyone wrong.

Modin has me very worried. What is wrong with his back that is causing all these spasms?
JACKETfan, how come I get no love here, just Bob and Kallio?

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04-07-2008, 01:24 PM
  #125
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Yay. Now people can come on and pat themselves on the back for their pure brilliance....

Can we get all this crap out of the way so we can get started calling each other idiots for the things that occur this offseason going into next year?

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