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Old
09-27-2007, 12:54 PM
  #26
Jasper17
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Originally Posted by heshootshescores View Post
This is mine too except I expect Eminger to not be cut and be scratched as insurance for Greenie. I see Boomer waived and its up to him to accept Hershey or go back to Europe.
IMO there is no point keeping Eminger as a depth defensman, Boomer can do that role. Either play him or move him along.

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09-27-2007, 01:00 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Why would any team in the NHL be done with that philosophy? The more players you have the better, and this enables the Caps to keep 1 more quality player in their system.

And lets not pretend it would kill Green's career to spend some more time in Hershey. In fact I think you can make a much stronger case it would help more than hinder or hold up. He is still only 21 years old, that is really young for an NHL defensman.
The goal should be to keep the 23 best players (21 minus the goalies)...not worry about who they can keep/lose via waivers and such. Hanlon just said as much in Vogel's recent blog post.

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But I would think we’ll have a conversation and I think we’ll keep the 21 best assets.
Green, while could be sent to Hershey...is better than Eminger, Boumer, Schultz, and perhaps Erskine. He's top 5. He's one of the top 21 assets.

So we send him to Hershey to make room for Eminger and Boumer? Gah. I'm not feeling it.

In the past few years...Id expect this from the Caps...but not anymore.

Best 21 stay to try and put this team back in the playoffs.

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09-27-2007, 01:07 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
The goal should be to keep the 23 best players...not worry about who they can keep/lose via waivers and such. Hanlon just said as much in Vogel's recent blog post.

Green, while could be sent to Hershey...is better than Eminger, Boumer, Schultz, and perhaps Erskine. He's top 5. He's one of the top 23 assets.

So we send him to Hershey to make room for Eminger and Boumer? Gah. I'm not feeling it.

In the past few years...Id expect this from the Caps...but not anymore.

Best 23 stay to try and put this team back in the playoffs.
In a perfect world, you are correct. However is 23 players all you need? How many players do teams use each year? Sending Green to hershey allows you to keep another NHL defensman.

Depth is also very important over a 82 game season.

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09-27-2007, 01:16 PM
  #29
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IMO though Green's upside is clearly higher than Emingers but Green still makes a couple of seemingly glaring mistakes in the couple preseason games that I have caught. Really depends on Hanlon if wants to be a little more conservative to start the season with his D corp.

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09-27-2007, 01:18 PM
  #30
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Depth is indeed important....

Schultz, Pokulok, Boumer (if he clears), Hunt.

There will be other options....not to mention picking players off waivers from other teams.

I just don't think it would be wise to punish a player to AHL duty (when he is clearly ready for NHL duty)...#1 its going to piss him off towards the organization (maybe...it's a risk I wouldnt take with Green)...#2 its going to continue/start a trend in which young players may feels they don't have a chance to win a spot becasue they could clear waivers compared to fringe players sticking around because they could be claimed.

It's not like Green hasn't earned the spot....he has.

I don't know. We'll see.

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09-27-2007, 01:31 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout View Post
The goal should be to keep the 23 best players (21 minus the goalies)...not worry about who they can keep/lose via waivers and such. Hanlon just said as much in Vogel's recent blog post.

Green, while could be sent to Hershey...is better than Eminger, Boumer, Schultz, and perhaps Erskine. He's top 5. He's one of the top 21 assets.

So we send him to Hershey to make room for Eminger and Boumer? Gah. I'm not feeling it.

In the past few years...Id expect this from the Caps...but not anymore.

Best 21 stay to try and put this team back in the playoffs.
100% agree. If a guy doesn't have an honest opportunity to earn a spot based on his performance in camp then he shouldn't have even been invited in the first place. They might as well have looked through the contract/papertrail and picked the team in July if that's the case.

Dammit, if a player earns it he should get it. The other complications aren't his concern, there the Gm's to deal with if said player has rightfully earned a spot through the opportunity you've said they and every other player would be given in camp/preseason.

This is not about future asset management, it should be about what is the best line-up you can ice for opening night to give the Caps the best shot at winning. If Green proved himself a rightful member of that roster all other excuse are just lame a-zz IMO.

It's really a simple equation for me - who gives you the best shot of winning opening night? Who did more than anyone else to prove they belong on that opening night roster? That's what teams looking to win concern themselves with. Losing a depth d-man in the process (ie Boomer) is something a good GM deals with during the season if injuries run them down into the #8 or #9 spot on the d-charts and there isn't what they need within the org already.

Boomer isn't among the rarest of commodities in my eyes anyway.

Anyway, I'm with Strung. The philosophy this time around should be about who makes the team better for opening night, end of story. I hope that holds true for the forwards too.

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Old
09-27-2007, 01:42 PM
  #32
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Have the Caps stated that waiver status would help shape the roster, or are people just blowing off steam?

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09-27-2007, 01:49 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
IMO there is no point keeping Eminger as a depth defensman, Boomer can do that role. Either play him or move him along.
That's cause you are a moron---- Sincerely GHG

All kidding aside, my reasoning has somehow gloriously aligned with the Vogel article posted in the other thread. Eminger v Boomer for that 23rd spot is better for the longterm for the club, given his ceiling.

And, I think that 7th D will play a lot especially early. Look at that october schedule of back to backs and 3 games/4 nights and 4games/6 nights. Brutal.

edit: I do agree that it could be possible and BETTER for the long term of the club to have Green and Shultz in Hershey with Emi and Boomer in DC. But I think that goes too far and goes against dressing the best 18 skaters, given Green's emergence this preseason and his ability to vastly assist the PP unit over Emi/Juice/Pots.

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09-27-2007, 01:53 PM
  #34
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Have the Caps stated that waiver status would help shape the roster, or are people just blowing off steam?
Im pretty sure there was something out there earlier this preseason that waiver status wouldn't make a difference on their decisions.

I just don't trust them to live up to that statement...if it was indeed made...which I think it was...but don't quote me on it.

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09-27-2007, 01:54 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
Depth is indeed important....

Schultz, Pokulok, Boumer (if he clears), Hunt.

There will be other options....not to mention picking players off waivers from other teams.

I just don't think it would be wise to punish a player to AHL duty (when he is clearly ready for NHL duty)...#1 its going to piss him off towards the organization (maybe...it's a risk I wouldnt take with Green)...#2 its going to continue/start a trend in which young players may feels they don't have a chance to win a spot becasue they could clear waivers compared to fringe players sticking around because they could be claimed.

It's not like Green hasn't earned the spot....he has.

I don't know. We'll see.
First, I don't consider Pokulok or Hunt as NHL depth. Just because you are a defensman in the system, doesn't mean you are NHL depth.

Second, is Green clearly ready for NHL duty? You act like making a 21 year old kid start the year in the AHL is some horrible thing. Green knows how this works, every young player knows how this works.

Its just not that big of a deal.

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Old
09-27-2007, 01:55 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmptyMaybe View Post
Have the Caps stated that waiver status would help shape the roster, or are people just blowing off steam?
people are blowing off steam from what I can tell...discussing all the options/possibilities, where waiver status could become a factor, but again, I don't see it being a factor unless there is already a debate about which player to keep...

fwiw, one thing to note is people (including this poster) sending Schultz to Hershey for opening night...and I don't think that is so obvious anymore based on the latest updates

so 10 d-men:

4: Jurcina, Morrisonn, Pothier, Poti

and pick 3 or 4

Boumedienne, Eminger, Erskine, Green, Pollock, Schultz


Last edited by sk84fun_dc: 09-27-2007 at 02:15 PM.
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Old
09-27-2007, 01:58 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by heshootshescores View Post
edit: I do agree that it could be possible and BETTER for the long term of the club to have Green and Shultz in Hershey with Emi and Boomer in DC. But I think that goes too far and goes against dressing the best 18 skaters, given Green's emergence this preseason and his ability to vastly assist the PP unit over Emi/Juice/Pots.
I would love to see Green in Washington this year, all i am saying is that it makes sense to send him down.

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09-27-2007, 02:06 PM
  #38
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What everyone keeps harping on is the Green is scoring points. But is he beating out all of the other guys defensively? He is a defenseman by trade. Maybe he has out played Clymer for a forward spot.

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09-27-2007, 02:51 PM
  #39
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If we are to believe that the 'best' players will make the roster then I see this:

Poti
Morrisonn
Jurcina
Pothier
Green
Eminger
Erskine

Boumedienne (if they keep 8 D he'll stay, if not, it's Hershey or back to Europe)

Shultz to Hershey
Pollock to Hershey
Hunt to Hershey

If they keep their word about the best players making the team, then there is no way that Green doesn't make this team... he totally deserves it!

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Old
09-27-2007, 03:43 PM
  #40
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Morrisonn-Jurcina
Poti-Pothier
Erskine-Green
Boumer, Eminger

The top 4 all get the same amount of playing time and the caps keep 8 d-man, until Eminger is traded.

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Old
09-27-2007, 04:54 PM
  #41
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In today's Cap's Report, Vogel seemed to be foreshadowing the retention of Shultz, as he would not only be an acceptable 5-6 for 5 on 5 play , but also brought the added plus of his superior pk skills.. Vogs went on to emphasize what a high priority GH was placing on "kill" improvement this season, and that it would indeed factor in final cut decisions.

I took this to possibly mean that at as a 3rd pair prospect Shultz' pk skill > Green's O ability in the duel for who stays


As an aside, I hope we get to another look at the 3 man pk unit of Steckel/Sarge/Jurchina. That's @ 234" of player, armed with @ 210" of stick! Yikes!!

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Old
09-27-2007, 07:53 PM
  #42
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What everyone keeps harping on is the Green is scoring points. But is he beating out all of the other guys defensively? He is a defenseman by trade. Maybe he has out played Clymer for a forward spot.
This is precisely my thought. A lot of people are saying "he's leading the team in scoring, so he should be in DC". There's more to being a defenseman than end to end rushes, and scoring out of the penalty box. Don't forget he took a penalty to even be in there in the first place. Like Japs says, it isn't the end of the world if he gets sent down. I think he has things to work on in Hershey

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09-27-2007, 07:58 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by bonzilla View Post
In today's Cap's Report, Vogel seemed to be foreshadowing the retention of Shultz, as he would not only be an acceptable 5-6 for 5 on 5 play , but also brought the added plus of his superior pk skills.. Vogs went on to emphasize what a high priority GH was placing on "kill" improvement this season, and that it would indeed factor in final cut decisions.

I took this to possibly mean that at as a 3rd pair prospect Shultz' pk skill > Green's O ability in the duel for who stays


As an aside, I hope we get to another look at the 3 man pk unit of Steckel/Sarge/Jurchina. That's @ 234" of player, armed with @ 210" of stick! Yikes!!
If Schultz stays, I wonder how that affects Erskine? Not like they are going to release him or anything, but does that mean Erskine is the #7 on this team. Or does Hanlon think there is room for both of them in the top 6?

I personally don't see any reason to keep Eminger and sit him in the press box. So until I see otherwise I assume he is going to play. If that is true, we would have Mo, Jurcina, Pothier, Poti, Eminger and Schultz. With Erskine as the 7th D?

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Old
09-27-2007, 07:59 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Gas House Gorilla View Post
Like Japs says, it isn't the end of the world if he gets sent down. I think he has things to work on in Hershey
I agree, i know he has looked good so far in camp and preseason. But I find it hard to believe he figured out all his issues in the defensive end over the off-season. Not trying to imply that he had a lot of issues. But he did have some.

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09-27-2007, 09:03 PM
  #45
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It's unbelievable to me that Schultz could be retained as a top 6. Not only has he shown a complete aversion to playing the body, he has been mediocre at best defensively. Green hasn't been studly in his own end, but Schultz has been downright bad. I don't care how long his reach is. If anyone needs AHL seasoning, it's Schultz. It's like he's covered in DW-40--when he "tries to play the body," forwards slide off him effortlessly. Schultz in the top 6 is a serious mistake. Anyone who thinks he's been solid in the preseason is hallucinating. He better have played like Chris Pronger in practice to make up for his blatant shortcomings in preseason play. My arthritic grandma could beat the crap out of him. My God.

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09-27-2007, 09:33 PM
  #46
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At present it would only take a couple of injuries to have the Caps counting on Pollock or Hunt or McNeill in NHL games, If they move a defenseman to find space for Green.

On the other hand Green has been what the Caps have been desperate for, a playmaker on defense. A game breaker. Eminger's offense has been gone for years.

My feeling is that Eminger and Erskine play. Boumedienne watches and Green goes to Hershey.

I think the Caps are a far more dangerous and explosive team with Green getting 18:00 a game. I am just afraid it will be 20 games before he gets his chance.

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09-27-2007, 09:55 PM
  #47
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just as an outside perspective, it seems like Green deserves a spot. dudes been putting up some nice points.

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09-27-2007, 10:51 PM
  #48
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I cant believe some of these comments. The top 4 are: Poti, Morrisonn, Pothier, Jurcina. The next best are Green & Schultz. That is your best starting 6 d-men.

Eminger has blown it already should be trade bait before he has zero value. Erskine is sub-par defensively so why would he be kept except for toughness. Boumedienne is just your typical #7 d-man.

Caps are trying to win now and waiver considerations will take a back seat IMO.

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Old
09-27-2007, 11:24 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
If that is true, we would have Mo, Jurcina, Pothier, Poti, Eminger and Schultz. With Erskine as the 7th D?
Agree that this is the other option. But even though I am the biggest Shultz backer, I think he should be returned to Hershey as I see him filling the same role as Erskine while not providing anything special above and beyond.

Green, on the other hand, fills the role of either Pothier or Eminger. But in addition he provides more offense, transition game, and PP ability above and beyond those two.

Therefore, in my mind, Green is staying and Shultz is down.

I hear what others are saying about the other aspects of Green's game. But I have yet to see a game so I can not comment. In addition I have yet to hear anything negative about his d-game. You have his penalties which must be factored. However he is apparently stronger on the puck and in the corners. Even Ollie said he's the most improved D-man in the D-zone. Now he had a lot to improve so it could be that his current coverage is still lacking even though vastly improved.

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09-27-2007, 11:27 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Biscuit Bullet View Post
It's unbelievable to me that Schultz could be retained as a top 6. Not only has he shown a complete aversion to playing the body, he has been mediocre at best defensively. Green hasn't been studly in his own end, but Schultz has been downright bad. I don't care how long his reach is. If anyone needs AHL seasoning, it's Schultz. It's like he's covered in DW-40--when he "tries to play the body," forwards slide off him effortlessly. Schultz in the top 6 is a serious mistake. Anyone who thinks he's been solid in the preseason is hallucinating. He better have played like Chris Pronger in practice to make up for his blatant shortcomings in preseason play. My arthritic grandma could beat the crap out of him. My God.
Haven't seen a game so I can't comment. However, this was one of his biggest attributes (including his reach). Once he got you against the boards you were DONE! If he's not doing that anymore then it is a major stepback.

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