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The Official "Jason Labarbera is a terrible Goaltender" thread!

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Old
01-16-2008, 02:39 PM
  #326
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This thread is so insane. I love it. especially as a goaltender.

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01-17-2008, 01:17 AM
  #327
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I have yet to see any proof of this deal other than "Eklund" type speculation. I have heard an interview exists but after hours of earching over the weekend, I have not found this deal mentioned.
I'm sorry but it's just not my responsibility to get you tour news.


Try searching in Rich Hammonds achives.

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01-18-2008, 09:39 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Greasy Squid View Post
All year long the Labarbera supporters have been throwing out his numbers like they tell the whole story. If they did then we would not be praising O'Sullivan the way we are because his numbers don't show just how good he has been in all aspects of the game.
Here are some numbers for you: GAA (goalies). These stats combined with these ones: S% (goalies). Puts Labarbera somewhere in between 20-30 in goalie stats. Not bad, but by far not impressive. My biggest beef with Labarbera at the beginning of the year was that he came to training camp, out of shape, not mentally prepared, and not driven to play (let alone win). I along with a few others had the goalie performances after training camp going like this. Bernier, Aubin, Cloutier, Labarbera. Not an impressive way to start out the season. This terrible performance reminded me of Roenick when he came to LA.
Labarbera was slow from side to side, showed that he was unable to keep track of the puck in traffic, and would jump on the ground and knock over his own defensemen whenever the puck got near to him. After saying all of that, Labarbera has definetely improved his game is all of these areas and if he continues to improve at the rate that he is going I might be willing to say that he should be our main goalie for one more year while Bernier gets ready in the A. Labarbera has not wiped away his bad performance that he started with, in my eyes, and neither has Blake for that matter. But at least they are starting to show improvement in their given areas of the game, and as a result the team is playing better.

This goes to show you just how important defense and goaltending is to a hockey club that excepts to be anywhere but in last place in the standings.

P.S. Please stop throwing out numbers at the drop of a hat. Talk about his positioning, ability to track the puck, rebound control, etc...


As the Ducks PBP guy says it. "Let's talk about it!"

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01-19-2008, 01:48 AM
  #329
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Now Beauty is sitting on his hands again, but just you wait... wait a little longer, he'll be back!
I've actually been busy....but don't you worry, I'll be back in force at the end of the year to watch people like you attempt to justify "Antonio's" mishaps in net.

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01-19-2008, 01:55 AM
  #330
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La Barbera has to lead the league in getting yanked. He stinks, makes me miss Cechmanek.

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01-19-2008, 04:17 AM
  #331
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But it's the defense when he loses! And when they play well, and in turn he plays well, he's awesome!


Isn't that how this thread works?

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01-19-2008, 09:16 AM
  #332
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Oh Dear God.

Let Their Be Bernier.

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Old
01-19-2008, 12:26 PM
  #333
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This thread is so insane. I love it. especially as a goaltender.
Are you busy today? I heard the Kings are having an open tryout at TSC.

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01-20-2008, 12:38 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greasy Squid View Post
All year long the Labarbera supporters have been throwing out his numbers like they tell the whole story. If they did then we would not be praising O'Sullivan the way we are because his numbers don't show just how good he has been in all aspects of the game.
Here are some numbers for you: GAA (goalies). These stats combined with these ones: S% (goalies). Puts Labarbera somewhere in between 20-30 in goalie stats. Not bad, but by far not impressive. My biggest beef with Labarbera at the beginning of the year was that he came to training camp, out of shape, not mentally prepared, and not driven to play (let alone win). I along with a few others had the goalie performances after training camp going like this. Bernier, Aubin, Cloutier, Labarbera. Not an impressive way to start out the season. This terrible performance reminded me of Roenick when he came to LA.
Labarbera was slow from side to side, showed that he was unable to keep track of the puck in traffic, and would jump on the ground and knock over his own defensemen whenever the puck got near to him. After saying all of that, Labarbera has definetely improved his game is all of these areas and if he continues to improve at the rate that he is going I might be willing to say that he should be our main goalie for one more year while Bernier gets ready in the A. Labarbera has not wiped away his bad performance that he started with, in my eyes, and neither has Blake for that matter. But at least they are starting to show improvement in their given areas of the game, and as a result the team is playing better.

This goes to show you just how important defense and goaltending is to a hockey club that excepts to be anywhere but in last place in the standings.

P.S. Please stop throwing out numbers at the drop of a hat. Talk about his positioning, ability to track the puck, rebound control, etc...
Let me build upon this a little bit.

There is another side to this debate. That is, how does the goaltender's style fit with the system of defense played in front of him, or vice versa.

The problem with Cechmanek was that he could only succeed with the right system in front of him. Cechmanek's style is one where he could stop any initial shot, mainly due to his size, but could not control the rebound himself and relied upon a team that kept the crease clear and a defense with an MO of clear the rebound at all costs. This gave him a great deal of success in Phily because the defense was structured around his style (or vice versa). When he came to LA, he immediately stunk, not because he lost skills, but because he was playing behind a system demonstratively different from Phily's and one definitely not suited for his style. He could not adapt a new style, the Kings could not teach a new system, so he failed.

I see Labarbera in a similar way. He has adequate lateral movement and the enormous body size to find a way to stop almost any initial shot. But, as you pointed out, like with most large goaltenders, his rebound control is greatly lacking. Coupled with a defensive system that does a poor job of clearing rebounds (and the rules have basically eliminated keeping the crease clear) and you've got Cechmanek II. Labarbera needs to be in the correct system for his style and that is not in Los Angeles.

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01-20-2008, 01:05 PM
  #335
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Here's some numbers to ponder. Up to each person to take them however they want.

I feel ok posting these because I'm neither a Labarbera-supporter or a Labarbera-detracter. I'm a figure-out-the-right-combination-so-that-it-works-regardless-of-what-that-combination-is guy. (I'm looking at you Greasy )

Most shots-faced per game:
1. Biron, PHI (2.75 GAA) - 5th in Eastern Conference
2. Lehtonen, ATL (2.94) - 10th in Eastern Conference
3. Thomas, BOS (2.34) - 7th in Eastern Conference
4. Labarbera, LA (3.06) - last place overall

Least shots-faced per game:
1. Hasek, DET (2.16) - 1st overall
2. Nabakov, SJ (2.19) - 5th in Western Conference
3. Osgood, DET (1.95) - 1st overall
4. Lundqvist, NYR (2.37) - 9th in Eastern Conference
5. Turco, DAL (2.42) - 4th in Western Conference

And if you look at this for all 43 goaltenders, there is a strong correlation between shots-faced and league standings.


Last edited by David A. Rainer: 01-20-2008 at 02:03 PM. Reason: Corrected team
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Old
01-20-2008, 01:27 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greasy Squid View Post
All year long the Labarbera supporters have been throwing out his numbers like they tell the whole story. If they did then we would not be praising O'Sullivan the way we are because his numbers don't show just how good he has been in all aspects of the game.
Here are some numbers for you: GAA (goalies). These stats combined with these ones: S% (goalies). Puts Labarbera somewhere in between 20-30 in goalie stats. Not bad, but by far not impressive. My biggest beef with Labarbera at the beginning of the year was that he came to training camp, out of shape, not mentally prepared, and not driven to play (let alone win). I along with a few others had the goalie performances after training camp going like this. Bernier, Aubin, Cloutier, Labarbera. Not an impressive way to start out the season. This terrible performance reminded me of Roenick when he came to LA.
Labarbera was slow from side to side, showed that he was unable to keep track of the puck in traffic, and would jump on the ground and knock over his own defensemen whenever the puck got near to him. After saying all of that, Labarbera has definetely improved his game is all of these areas and if he continues to improve at the rate that he is going I might be willing to say that he should be our main goalie for one more year while Bernier gets ready in the A. Labarbera has not wiped away his bad performance that he started with, in my eyes, and neither has Blake for that matter. But at least they are starting to show improvement in their given areas of the game, and as a result the team is playing better.

This goes to show you just how important defense and goaltending is to a hockey club that excepts to be anywhere but in last place in the standings.

P.S. Please stop throwing out numbers at the drop of a hat. Talk about his positioning, ability to track the puck, rebound control, etc...
Don't know why this was directed at me considering I've only posted a few times in the entire thread...

I find it funny that you actually classified a group of posters on this board as "Labarbera Supporters." I thought we we're all supposed to be supporters of our goaltender? I almost get the sense that some posters around here are hoping he fails just to prove they were right.

I don't think any of the "Labarbera Supporters" you're referring to are saying that he's been some sort of great/amazing goalie. All they/we are saying is that much of the criticism against him is over exaggerated and unwarranted.

I'd say he's certainly not a "Terrible" goaltender, nor does he make me "Miss Dan Cloutier." I think it's fair to say that he's been adequate, all though inconsistent at times.

The real culprit here is the defense.

The vast majority of NHL goaltenders would struggle playing for this team...

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01-20-2008, 01:53 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by David A. Rainer View Post
Here's some numbers to ponder. Up to each person to take them however they want.

I feel ok posting these because I'm neither a Labarbera-supporter or a Labarbera-detracter. I'm a figure-out-the-right-combination-so-that-it-works-regardless-of-what-that-combination-is guy. (I'm looking at you Greasy )

Most shots-faced per game:
1. Biron, BUF (2.75 GAA) - 12th in Eastern Conference
2. Lehtonen, ATL (2.94) - 10th in Eastern Conference
3. Thomas, BOS (2.34) - 7th in Eastern Conference
4. Labarbera, LA (3.06) - last place overall

Least shots-faced per game:
1. Hasek, DET (2.16) - 1st overall
2. Nabakov, SJ (2.19) - 5th in Western Conference
3. Osgood, DET (1.95) - 1st overall
4. Lundqvist, NYR (2.37) - 9th in Eastern Conference
5. Turco, DAL (2.42) - 4th in Western Conference

And if you look at this for all 43 goaltenders, there is a strong correlation between shots-faced and league standings.

One minor note. Biron... Philly, not Buffalo. Miller... Buffalo.

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01-20-2008, 02:02 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeKnight View Post
One minor note. Biron... Philly, not Buffalo. Miller... Buffalo.
Oops. I filled in the teams out of memory.

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Old
01-20-2008, 02:10 PM
  #339
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David A. Rainer, I am in the same boat as you. I don't dislike Labarbera so much that I want to see him go no matter how he performs from here on out; in fact, I am liking the fact that he is doing such drills and training exercises as the one where he is looking side to side really fast to try and improve his ability to keep track of the puck (I bet old Hexy had a hand in that one ). I am all for Labarbera improving and becoming good enough for us to have a descent year next year and for maybe one more year after that, until Bernier is ready. And as I have stated in other threads "Labarbera is the lest of a big problems with the team".

I am quite surprised to see that Leclaire for Columbus is not on that list for least shots against with a low GAA. I have watched both games live when Columbus was in town and I was so impressed with there team defense and especially there defensemen defense. They have such a great style of clearing the puck away after the initial shot. This is very noticeable when they are on the PK. They set up a perimeter on the outside keeping all possible shots to the outside coming from bad angles, and then once the shot comes they all collapse in a protect the area where the rebound goes to, while one of them gets the puck and clears it out of the zone. And if anyone tries to enter there perimeter someone is on him fighting for position.

The biggest difference between Labarbera and Leclaire as I see it (other than age, speed, and weight) is that Leclaire has a defensive minded team in front of him, albeit a young one, and this is why he has a .926% and a 2.03 GAA.

If this team could get a defensive system similar to Columbus' or Dallas' or even Detroit's, then I would be jumping for joy, because a style like this would make Labarbera look like an above average goalie and then think about how a team like that would make Bernier look! I think that Leclaire and Bernier have very similar styles except that I think that Bernier is superior in hi rebound control and his ability to stand on his head and absolutely steal games from his opponents.

All of that being said is why I truly do not think that Crawford is the coach for this team, since he does not have a defensive style of coaching, and the man that he brought in to try and solve that problem has already been let go by one of the best defensive teams in the league ()

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01-20-2008, 02:21 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Don't know why this was directed at me considering I've only posted a few times in the entire thread...

I find it funny that you actually classified a group of posters on this board as "Labarbera Supporters." I thought we we're all supposed to be supporters of our goaltender? I almost get the sense that some posters around here are hoping he fails just to prove they were right.

I don't think any of the "Labarbera Supporters" you're referring to are saying that he's been some sort of great/amazing goalie. All they/we are saying is that much of the criticism against him is over exaggerated and unwarranted.

I'd say he's certainly not a "Terrible" goaltender, nor does he make me "Miss Dan Cloutier." I think it's fair to say that he's been adequate, all though inconsistent at times.

The real culprit here is the defense.

The vast majority of NHL goaltenders would struggle playing for this team...
Sorry if you felt like it was directed at you. That wasn't my intention. It was directed more at all of the people who keep saying the Labarbera numbers prove that he is a good goalie. It was just what you said that I think bridged the difference between those that were saying he was good because his numbers say so and he was bad because he keeps giving up terrible goals.

My agreement has never been that he is the worlds most terrible goalie. Mr beachball will forever keep that award.

It was just that at 28 he was too old to be trying to learn how to play this vital position at the NHL level. Let alone at an MVP level.

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01-20-2008, 03:05 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
All [that's being said] is that much of the criticism against him is over exaggerated and unwarranted.

I'd say he's certainly not a "Terrible" goaltender, nor does he make me "Miss Dan Cloutier." I think it's fair to say that he's been adequate, all though inconsistent at times.

The real culprit here is the defense.

The vast majority of NHL goaltenders would struggle playing for this team...
I generally agree, except that I'm not sure the primary culprit is necessarily the defense. Case in point:

Quote:
Quote from Inside the Kings
Kings lose 6-1

The Kings were outshot 18-6 in the first period.
Quote:
Quote from Inside the Kings
Kings beat Vancouver 4-3

The Kings managed to win despite being outshot 46-24.
The next time someone thinks that Labarbera's goaltending is such a huge problem they might want to consider these couple of factoids from two recent, back-to-back games. Flukes aside, I'm pretty sure there's not been a team in NHL history who's ever won a game without scoring, and scoring can only occur when a team takes shots. No shots, no goals.

Do the Kings need more in goaltending? Sure. Do they need more defense? Sure. What do they need to fix first, IMHO? The offense. The Kings don't typically lose games by the slimmest of margins; they lose because they don't shoot and score in the first place.

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01-20-2008, 03:13 PM
  #342
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LaBarbera is not so terrible guys.

He's inconsistent, but he's performing admirably IMO, .910 SPCT is excellent considering he's playing on a team like this.

But I'm not one to judge by only the stats and highlights, I just think he'd decent enough to be a 1B at best.
Aubin should get some starts.

And I'm saying this with all due respect, THANK YOU for Huet.

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01-20-2008, 03:14 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by VEGASKING View Post
But it's the defense when he loses! And when they play well, and in turn he plays well, he's awesome!


Isn't that how this thread works?
Well I'm not going to try to convince you that the Kings have defensive troubles, I mean, if you don't already know...


But why don't you look at the game summary on TSN, and see who they are giving the credit to (HINT: the guy that made 46 saves).

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01-20-2008, 03:14 PM
  #344
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I meant 43 saves.

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01-20-2008, 03:38 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by David A. Rainer View Post
When [Cechmanek] came to LA, he immediately stunk, not because he lost skills, but because he was playing behind a system demonstratively different from Phily's and one definitely not suited for his style. He could not adapt a new style, the Kings could not teach a new system, so he failed.

I see Labarbera in a similar way. He has adequate lateral movement and the enormous body size to find a way to stop almost any initial shot. But, as you pointed out, like with most large goaltenders, his rebound control is greatly lacking. Coupled with a defensive system that does a poor job of clearing rebounds (and the rules have basically eliminated keeping the crease clear) and you've got Cechmanek II. Labarbera needs to be in the correct system for his style and that is not in Los Angeles.
Bravo, David. I agree completely. I've never quite understood the trashing of Cechmanek. He wasn't that bad (.906 and 2.51); it was the team in front of him that was awful. Listening to Kings fans, though, you'd think that he was the worst goaltender in the league. "Truly awful" is what Cloutier gave the team last year, with his .860 and 3.98. There's the one goaltender that Kings fans have gotten right. The rest weren't nearly as bad as portrayed, LaBarbera included.

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01-20-2008, 04:46 PM
  #346
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Here is an interesting post that might put things in a little more perspective as to how LaBarbera is doing so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordoe28 View Post
*Remember these are based on performance in the 2007/08 NHL season only.
*Minimum 13 GP to be eligible for rank.

*For complete rankings or information about the formula click HERE

This Rank/Last Rank |Goaltender| Score (Out of 625)
1 / 1 Roberto Luongo 588
2 / 3 Martin Brodeur 563
3 / 4 Pascal Leclaire 559
4 / 5 Chris Osgood 525
5 / 2 Evgeni Nabokov 525
6 / 6 Manny Legace 501
7 / 10 Jean-Sebastien Giguere 493
8 / 8 Ty Conklin 475
9 / 7 Henrik Lundqvist 462
10 / 9 Tim Thomas 457
11 / 17 Cristobal Huet 448
12 / 13 Rick DiPietro 447
13 / 12 Ilya Bryzgalov 443
14 / 11 Tomas Vokoun 438
15 / 15 Martin Gerber 438
16 / 19 Dan Ellis 418
17 / 14 Mathieu Garon 413
18 / 16 Martin Biron 405
19 / 18 Ryan Miller 384
20 / 20 Marty Turco 377
21 / 21 Dominik Hasek 369
22 / 23 Antero Niittymaki 367
23 / 22 Niklas Backstrom 366
24 / 24 Vesa Toskala 342
25 / 37 Dany Sabourin 321
...
48 / 49 Hannu Toivonen 52
Go to link and you will see how the players got these ranks and you will also find that LaBarbera is ranked 33rd.

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01-20-2008, 05:39 PM
  #347
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Crawford has never been known for employing a defense 1st system so I'm not sure if LaBarbera will ever be the answer in net.

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01-20-2008, 06:03 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Crawford has never been known for employing a defense 1st system so I'm not sure if LaBarbera will ever be the answer in net.
Or any other goalie for that matter, while Crawford remains coach of this team. This is my point!

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01-20-2008, 07:35 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by Greasy Squid View Post
Or any other goalie for that matter, while Crawford remains coach of this team. This is my point!
Ths is pretty much the ultimate answer when it comes to goaltending in LA. The Kings have never been a good defensive team as long as I have watched them. They also have a history of so-called "bad" goaltenders. I have a theory that the goaltending has not been as bad as most people make it out to be (with the exception of Cluotier that is). The defense in front of them have been responsible for the majority of the goals given up. I believe you could put Luongo on the Kings right now and he would have average to below average stats. Would people accuse him of being a terrible goaltender as well? Until the Kings improve their overall defensive system they will never have a goalie who will be considered a Vezina Trophy candidate. That includes Bernier.

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01-20-2008, 08:31 PM
  #350
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Well put. The fact that you said their overall devensive system has to improve says a lot. Clearly LaBarbara is not as bad as half of the people say he is, and the defence is not great either but a lot of talk should do with the forwards on this team who haven't been the most defensive minded players around.

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