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Old
10-02-2007, 09:42 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
Can't say I agree with that, especially after his continuous progression as a player.
Yeah but I mean, we're giving minutes to either Picard or Guenin because Kimmo, Kukkonen, Hatcher, Smith, and Coburn are all set. Picard has that top-4 potential, I just don't see that with Guenin, maybe a serviceable 3rd pairing d-man at best.

Besides, we'll have enough injuries that Guenin should get some playing time at some point this season.

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10-02-2007, 09:52 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Coburn doesn't exactly skate like the wind. If you're on the ice you still have to not screw up. Stevens wasn't putting Coburn with Hatcher to make Hatcher a better player....
Er, what? Have you ever seen Coburn?


He's a really good skater.

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10-02-2007, 09:54 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Coburn doesn't exactly skate like the wind. If you're on the ice you still have to not screw up. Stevens wasn't putting Coburn with Hatcher to make Hatcher a better player....
i thought that braydon's greatest asset was his legspeed. thats why im glad he's playing with hatch. he can cover for hatch being slow and hatch can teach him how to hit dirty.

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10-02-2007, 10:06 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
i thought that braydon's greatest asset was his legspeed. thats why im glad he's playing with hatch. he can cover for hatch being slow and hatch can teach him how to hit dirty.
He has great speed for his size. He's not a pylon but he isn't going to be chasing Marty St. Louis down any time soon. He won't cover any mistake Hatcher makes on his speed alone.

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10-02-2007, 10:11 AM
  #80
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maybe not on speed alone, but when hatch commits to a hit and falls out of position, im glad to know that someone can make it back in time to cover for him.

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10-02-2007, 10:16 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
maybe not on speed alone, but when hatch commits to a hit and falls out of position, im glad to know that someone can make it back in time to cover for him.
Hatcher, not always, but not often, commits to a hit that puts him completely out of the play. Maybe now that he has a competent partner he will throw some more hits that will, but he's not as Gauthier-stupid as his haters paint him to be.

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10-02-2007, 10:36 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
He has great speed for his size. He's not a pylon but he isn't going to be chasing Marty St. Louis down any time soon. He won't cover any mistake Hatcher makes on his speed alone.
No d-man catches Marty St. Louis at full-speed. Coburn is extremely fast for his size and very fast for a defenseman, speed is the last of his worries at this point.

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10-02-2007, 10:37 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
He has great speed for his size. He's not a pylon but he isn't going to be chasing Marty St. Louis down any time soon. He won't cover any mistake Hatcher makes on his speed alone.
Coburn can skate with the majority of the players in the league... obviously St. Louis is one of the fastest and quickest players in the league (the reason he has any success at all), but Coburn is one of the better skaters on the Flyers regardless of size, and for his size it's rather remarkable.

Is he Pitkanen? no. however, he can cover a fair number of mistakes.

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10-02-2007, 10:38 AM
  #84
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Not once did I ever say Braydon Coburn's speed is a worry or a concern.

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10-02-2007, 10:39 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
Can't say I agree with that, especially after his continuous progression as a player.
he remains an extremely one-dimensional player... it's tough to make it in this league with that on your resume.

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10-02-2007, 10:40 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Not once did I ever say Braydon Coburn's speed is a worry or a concern.
then i wouldn't use "doesn't exactly skate like the wind," as that has a negative connotation. even then, i think you're underselling his skating ability... he will be an extremely difficult player for any forward in the league to beat with speed alone.

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10-02-2007, 10:49 AM
  #87
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then i wouldn't use "doesn't exactly skate like the wind," as that has a negative connotation. even then, i think you're underselling his skating ability... he will be an extremely difficult player for any forward in the league to beat with speed alone.
Would you rather have me lie and say "Yes, Coburn sets the ice on fire with his speed and can easily make Hatcher look invisible when he screws up?" Braydon Coburn won't be making up for anyone's mistakes, at least on a consistent basis, at this time in his career. If you're putting Hatcher on the ice with him, you can't do it knowing/thinking/hoping that Bradyon Coburn will be on standby to pick up the pieces.

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10-02-2007, 10:59 AM
  #88
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Any ideas what the lineup will look like on Thursday?

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10-02-2007, 11:01 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Any ideas what the lineup will look like on Thursday?
Reading here it won't include Dowd or Boulerice as they won't be signed to contracts before then.

I think we're also still waiting official words on Umberger, Jones (will be the #7 anyways I think) and even Joffrey Lupul. I don't have it on me, but I read somewhere that it's not out of the question that he will play. If Lupul and Umberger are out, I think we're looking at:

Forwards: Briere, Gagne, Knuble, Carter, Richards, Kapanen, Hartnell, Eager, Potulny, Cote, Ruzicka, Tolpeko? (am I missing someone?)

Defensemen: Timonen, Smith, Hatcher, Kukkonen, Coburn, Picard

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10-02-2007, 11:17 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Would you rather have me lie and say "Yes, Coburn sets the ice on fire with his speed and can easily make Hatcher look invisible when he screws up?" Braydon Coburn won't be making up for anyone's mistakes, at least on a consistent basis, at this time in his career. If you're putting Hatcher on the ice with him, you can't do it knowing/thinking/hoping that Bradyon Coburn will be on standby to pick up the pieces.
you could go with non-sarcasm and a fair assessment. Coburn is in the tier of defenseman just below the burners... he's one of the better skaters on this team, regardless of position.

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10-02-2007, 11:19 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Any ideas what the lineup will look like on Thursday?
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Reading here it won't include Dowd or Boulerice as they won't be signed to contracts before then.

I think we're also still waiting official words on Umberger, Jones (will be the #7 anyways I think) and even Joffrey Lupul. I don't have it on me, but I read somewhere that it's not out of the question that he will play. If Lupul and Umberger are out, I think we're looking at:

Forwards: Briere, Gagne, Knuble, Carter, Richards, Kapanen, Hartnell, Eager, Potulny, Cote, Ruzicka, Tolpeko? (am I missing someone?)

Defensemen: Timonen, Smith, Hatcher, Kukkonen, Coburn, Picard
http://www.courierpostonline.com/news/sports/index.html

The Flyers are likely to begin the regular season with Alexandre Picard and Randy Jones as their sixth and seventh defensemen, and that made Gauthier expendable. He said he would report to the Phantoms, but would prefer to go to another NHL team.

"No, I wouldn't be OK with (going to the Phantoms), but I'd go," he said.

"I've played in the league for nine years and I know I can play. The younger (defensemen) are the cheaper option and I fully understand that. I'm going to use today to be angry and tomorrow we'll see what's ahead of me."

Rathje, on the other hand, appears close to calling it quits. After a comeback attempt resulted in another stay on the injury list, Rathje seems prepared to end his career after 13 seasons.

In addition to Dowd and Boulerice, the Flyers will start the season with Riley Cote as one of their enforcers and either Ryan Potulny, Denis Tolpeko or Stefan Ruzicka as a right wing. Ruzicka practiced with the Phantoms on Monday, so the role of third line right wing apparently comes down to Potulny or Tolpeko.

Meanwhile, winger Joffrey Lupul (sprained left wrist) skated on his own Monday and said he might be cleared to play Thursday. Lupul said there is a very slight fracture in the wrist and he'll need to have it examined again before getting clearance to play.

Center R.J. Umberger (broken pinky) will miss the first two games of the Flyers' season-opening three-game road trip, but could be cleared to play Oct. 10 in Vancouver.

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Old
10-02-2007, 11:21 AM
  #92
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opening day rosters are due in by 3pm today. Why exactly would Dowd and Boulerice not have contracts by then? We have the cap room now...

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10-02-2007, 11:27 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by kz View Post
opening day rosters are due in by 3pm today. Why exactly would Dowd and Boulerice not have contracts by then? We have the cap room now...
Paperwork and such. They might have their names on a contract but it has to get through the NHL. You'd think it takes a few minutes, but it actually takes a few days.

Also, Gauthier and Rathje are still on the roster and they have to go through the formality of getting Rathje on LTIR and have to wait until Gauthier clears waivers to be sent down.

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10-02-2007, 11:30 AM
  #94
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Boulerice sucks. He belongs with the Phantoms.

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10-02-2007, 11:31 AM
  #95
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opening day rosters are due in by 3pm today. Why exactly would Dowd and Boulerice not have contracts by then? We have the cap room now...
Probably a matter of dotting the "i's" and crossing the "t's." The article I posted above probably hints at that:

"The Flyers need to turn in their 2007-08 roster by 3 p.m. today and Holmgren is trying to make room for forwards Jim Dowd at $500,000 and Jesse Boulerice at $475,000.

If Gauthier is not claimed by another NHL team, the Flyers are likely to assign him to the Phantoms, where he will collect an NHL salary, but it will not count against the Flyers' cap."

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10-02-2007, 12:58 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Coburn doesn't exactly skate like the wind. If you're on the ice you still have to not screw up. Stevens wasn't putting Coburn with Hatcher to make Hatcher a better player....

Hatcher was paired first with Picard and later with Coburn for 2 reasons. First, those 2 young dmen could skate better than Hatcher and every time when the puck was thrown in deep, they went after it and Hatcher picked up a player heading for the net. Hatcher does this very well. He doesn't have the mobility to be chasing down pucks dumped in the zone so pairing him with Picard/Coburn was ideal from that aspect.

Second, Hatcher is a very good communicator on the ice. He was always talking to which ever one he was paired with and helping them understand their responsibilities and positioning. Hatcher has been an excellent partner for both Picard and Coburn to learn from while on the ice.

There is no reason to believe that Hatcher won't play just as well as last year and be just as beneficial to his younger partner. Yes, there will be times where Hatchers lack of mobility will cost us and if we had an entire defense corps of Timonen's we'd be much better but the reality is that Hatcher does his job well majority of the time and his importance to the mental growth of the younger dmen is something that's hard to place a true value upon.

It is very possible that next year Kukkonen will get moved up to the 2nd pairing and Hatcher will be moved down to 3rd pairing with Parent. He would then be able to help groom Parent for top 4 dman duties beginning in the 09/10 season. I see this as the most likely scenario

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10-02-2007, 01:18 PM
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Also, I agree with many other posters on here in that Guenin is only slightly better than Jones and nobody I want to see getting regular ice time with the Flyers. He's passable as a #7 dman but that's about it. The only thing that Guenin does for us is to let us move Jones (please please please).

For next years player that we need to re-sign, I see it this way. I think these 3 things are almost a given: Richards is signed (probably a 3-4 year contract), Coburn is signed (2-4 year contract), and Carter is most likely taken to arbitration (this because the Flyers won't have the money to sign him long term, he won't have earned a big payday yet, and it will prevent other teams from stealing him out from under us). I think the NEXT year will be Carters real evaluation year as to whether or not we lock him up long term or look to move him.

Next, the Flyers will have to make a choice, either re-sign Smith or re-sign Umberger, Jones and Picard. We may be able to sign both Smith and Picard but it will be tight and remember, we still have Ruzicka to consider re-signing too. If Smith is re-signed then I think we'll let Umberger walk and replace him with a younger/cheaper player. I just don't see umberger signing for less than 1.5 mil and we will NEED to spend that money elsewhere. Jones won't be worth re-signing for more than he makes now as Guenin can do his job better than he can at this point. I doubt we can trade Jones and get anything for him. I'm of the opinion that we should keep Picard but managment may be on the bubble regarding him and they may not want thet many young dmen on the team all at the same time with Coburn, Kukkonen, Guenin, Parent and Picard all as viable options next year.

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10-02-2007, 01:34 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Coburn doesn't exactly skate like the wind. If you're on the ice you still have to not screw up. Stevens wasn't putting Coburn with Hatcher to make Hatcher a better player....
I am not sure what is yoru definition of skating liek a wind... Scotty? Not too many forwards skate like him. Coburn is not just fast for his size. He is just fast.

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10-02-2007, 01:43 PM
  #99
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the main knock i have against coburn is that he plays small. he'd a big guy but he doesnt have a physical edge to game yet. he's still young and i think management is hoping hatcher will rub off on braydon.

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10-02-2007, 02:09 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
the main knock i have against coburn is that he plays small. he'd a big guy but he doesnt have a physical edge to game yet. he's still young and i think management is hoping hatcher will rub off on braydon.
I thought that even by the end of last year, he was definitely showing some more edge, I actually thought that his pairing with Hatcher might just have been our most defensively solid pairing. I don't think he'll ever be a huge hitter, but he'll definitely be able to hold his own.

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