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OT: mets loose out!!

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01-10-2004, 06:38 PM
  #1
sickboy35
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OT: mets loose out!!

on vlad gurrero!! i'am bumed! the freakin angels came out of nowhere and swiped him from us!! espn is reporting this!

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01-10-2004, 06:40 PM
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This is great news because i hate the mets. But the Angels have really had a great offseason. They should win the AL WEST

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01-10-2004, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
This is great news because i hate the mets. But the Angels have really had a great offseason. They should win the AL WEST
hahahah i hate the mets

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01-10-2004, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TrueBlue4life
hahahah i hate the mets

all i have to say to you yankee fans is: yank this!!!

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01-10-2004, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sickboy35
on vlad gurrero!! i'am bumed! the freakin angels came out of nowhere and swiped him from us!! espn is reporting this!
GAHH!!! im mad about it, and i see someone celabrating about it.

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01-10-2004, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sickboy35
all i have to say to you yankee fans is: yank this!!!
lol
LETS GO YANKEES

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01-10-2004, 07:14 PM
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there is still some confusion on which team it is, the angels or the dodgers! i will say this though, i have a bad back, 2 herniated disc, had surgery and i'm still really messed up back there. i can understand the mets having reservations about signing him to big long term contract. they gave a good offer but did not want to be saddled with a guy who might not even make through the season because of his back, and if he goes down again the team that does sign him is going to be screwed royaly!

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01-10-2004, 07:28 PM
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They never had them, all their offer was, was so the Wilpon's could tell us fans they gave it a shot. rediculous, they should have just had given him a real offer, with a 4th year...


Last edited by SingnBluesOnBroadway: 01-10-2004 at 07:48 PM.
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01-10-2004, 07:31 PM
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Its the Angels.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/bre...p-135284c.html

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01-10-2004, 07:51 PM
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Wilpon had a golden opportunity to restore some respectability in the eyes of the Mets fans and make up for the A-Rod fiasco. Vlad would have been the best OF this team would have had since Strawberry (that's 1988). He is young enough so that he is still a player to build around. And the guy is a money maker. By half-assing this he looks even worse than he did when he said he had no interest (or couldn't) in making an offer.

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01-10-2004, 08:03 PM
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Half of me is saying he made the right move by not risking 5 guerentted years, with the back problems of Vladdy. The other half is saying this player only comes around once in a while and he has to make the move.

The safe side wins because..

If he reached 400 AB in the first 3 seasons, he would get a 4th year, another 400 ABs and he gets his 5th year. If he simply met those, if healthy easy numbers he would get 72 million over 5 years. This tells me he isnt sure of his back, therefore taking the money in Anaheim.

400 ABs isnt hard.. you could miss a month of the season and still get 400 at bats.

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01-10-2004, 08:06 PM
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.

I think it was a smart move by the Mets.

Backs are not something that can be predicted and usually always come back to haunt a player.

And since the deal was uninsurable there's no way they were going to put themselves in another Mo situation.

good call.

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01-10-2004, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Wilpon had a golden opportunity to restore some respectability in the eyes of the Mets fans and make up for the A-Rod fiasco. Vlad would have been the best OF this team would have had since Strawberry (that's 1988). He is young enough so that he is still a player to build around. And the guy is a money maker. By half-assing this he looks even worse than he did when he said he had no interest (or couldn't) in making an offer.
1. potentially giving up 71 million is not half assing it
2. Guerrero had legitament concerns about him evidenced by the lack of interest, Mets had a budget, new philosophy and bad history.

this article is for you and all other Met fans that feel the Mets did not do there best. My personal opinion is he played the Mets just as he played the O's. Baited everyone till he could get the right team/offer combination in the mix. Angels have the latin community and even team the O's don't, they also were the only other team willing to invest 71 mill on a risky player, something the Mets weren't.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-hey...orts-headlines


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01-10-2004, 08:35 PM
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I think Duquette handled this perfectly. They made it known from the very start that if Guerrero was to sign here, he would do so on their terms. After the whole Alomar, Vaughn, and Cedeno debacles, you cant blame them for being so cautious about giving out long term deals. They stuck with their plan all along and didnt let the lure of a big talent take control of their decisions. If only the Rangers acted like this.

Lets face it. The Mets aren't going anywhere this year. Even with Vlad, they have no pitching at all and everyone knows it takes pitching to make the playoffs, let alone make some noise in them. There are big free agents like Vlad seemingly every winter, so there was no point in jumping the gun. Let them play out the year, grow as a team, and try to bring up some kids through the system. Sure they'll struggle a little this year, but it'll pay off in the future. They've got some stud pitchers in the minors now who'll be ready to make the jump within the next 2 years. Then, and only then, should the Mets go out and try to throw big money at big free agents. Btw, I believe Wood and Hudson (and possibly some other big pitchers) are FA's next winter. Those are the guys they should be saving up their money for.

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01-11-2004, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #37-#93-#27
1. potentially giving up 71 million is not half assing it
2. Guerrero had legitament concerns about him evidenced by the lack of interest, Mets had a budget, new philosophy and bad history.

this article is for you and all other Met fans that feel the Mets did not do there best. My personal opinion is he played the Mets just as he played the O's. Baited everyone till he could get the right team/offer combination in the mix. Angels have the latin community and even team the O's don't, they also were the only other team willing to invest 71 mill on a risky player, something the Mets weren't.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-hey...orts-headlines
1. Potentially giving up 71 million is half assing it when you are asking a player to leave 30 million on the table by taking your offer.

2. For every scout, GM, other unnamed source, you could just as easily find a contrary opinion. And the lack of interest is because 71 million is still 71 million and not many teams can afford it. It has nothing to do with lack of offense.

As far as the new philiosophy, great. Where is the pitching? Duquette said that he was going with pitching and defense. OK, Cameron will be excellent defensively in CF. Matsui and Reyes should be solid defensively. Vlad would have been excellent defensively.

This team has had the worse offensive outfield in the league for the past 5 years now. And with RF manned by Roger Cedeno/Timo Perez/Raul Gonzalez it just might again.

This team is better defensively and with speed. However, the pitcher is no better and the offensive is only moderately improved. Right now the offense is banking on several things happening:

1) Mike Piazza staying healthy and getting back to anything close to his old form.
2) Cliff Floyd staying healthy
3) Jason Phillips duplicating last years success (no lock)
4) Ty Wigginton improving.
5) Kaz Matsui being as advertised.


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01-11-2004, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr4life5186
I think Duquette handled this perfectly. They made it known from the very start that if Guerrero was to sign here, he would do so on their terms. After the whole Alomar, Vaughn, and Cedeno debacles, you cant blame them for being so cautious about giving out long term deals. They stuck with their plan all along and didnt let the lure of a big talent take control of their decisions. If only the Rangers acted like this.

Lets face it. The Mets aren't going anywhere this year. Even with Vlad, they have no pitching at all and everyone knows it takes pitching to make the playoffs, let alone make some noise in them. There are big free agents like Vlad seemingly every winter, so there was no point in jumping the gun. Let them play out the year, grow as a team, and try to bring up some kids through the system. Sure they'll struggle a little this year, but it'll pay off in the future. They've got some stud pitchers in the minors now who'll be ready to make the jump within the next 2 years. Then, and only then, should the Mets go out and try to throw big money at big free agents. Btw, I believe Wood and Hudson (and possibly some other big pitchers) are FA's next winter. Those are the guys they should be saving up their money for.
They didn't give out long term deals to Alomar and Vaughn.

And I think that if the Mets got Vlad you could say that they could go somewhere this year. The league is not terribly improved. And the division looks up for grabs.

But the biggest thing is this: signing Vlad is move for the future as much as it is a move for this year.

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01-11-2004, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666
I think it was a smart move by the Mets.

Backs are not something that can be predicted and usually always come back to haunt a player.

And since the deal was uninsurable there's no way they were going to put themselves in another Mo situation.

good call.
I disagree that it was a good call. If he was such a bad risk then why did the team that saw him day in day out offer him 75 Mil over 5 Years?
Without a doubt backs are a tricky thing but when you have a guy who is 27 years old and one of the top five players in the game you have to take the risk. I am disgusted a few days back I really thought I would see Vlad at Shea.

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01-11-2004, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
1. Potentially giving up 71 million is half assing it when you are asking a player to leave 30 million on the table by taking your offer.

2. For every scout, GM, other unnamed source, you could just as easily find a contrary opinion. And the lack of interest is because 71 million is still 71 million and not many teams can afford it. It has nothing to do with lack of offense.

As far as the new philiosophy, great. Where is the pitching? Duquette said that he was going with pitching and defense. OK, Cameron will be excellent defensively in CF. Matsui and Reyes should be solid defensively. Vlad would have been excellent defensively.

This team has had the worse offensive outfield in the league for the past 5 years now. And with RF manned by Roger Cedeno/Timo Perez/Raul Gonzalez it just might again.

This team is better defensively and with speed. However, the pitcher is no better and the offensive is only moderately improved. Right now the offense is banking on several things happening:

1) Mike Piazza staying healthy and getting back to anything close to his old form.
2) Cliff Floyd staying healthy
3) Jason Phillips duplicating last years success (no lock)
4) Ty Wigginton improving.
5) Kaz Matsui being as advertised.
Do you see any pitchers available that fit the bill?

This is not a ONE YEAR PLAN this is a two year plan as JD has repeatadly said. They only want to be in contention this season and don't expect much more.

They are not pushing to sign a 33 year old, 100 pounds over weight colon to a 4 year deal.

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01-11-2004, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Pavelich
I disagree that it was a good call. If he was such a bad risk then why did the team that saw him day in day out offer him 75 Mil over 5 Years?
Without a doubt backs are a tricky thing but when you have a guy who is 27 years old and one of the top five players in the game you have to take the risk. I am disgusted a few days back I really thought I would see Vlad at Shea.

i don't know? i'm flippin and floppin on this one! you are right in the fact that he is 27 years old and in his prime, by the time the contract was done he would be 32, thats a risk the mets should have taken! he would have attracted alot more fans, which would have made up the dollars and with mechandising on top the mets would have recouped the money rather quickly! this is just another case of the mets talking a big game and not walking it! first a-rod now this!! it's amazing how i like two of the poorest managed teams in sports!

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01-11-2004, 08:45 AM
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Vlad is 28 and would've been 33 when the contract ends.

Carlos Beltran, Garrett Anderson, Magglio Ordonez, JD Drew, Kerry Wood, Matt Morris, Pedro Martinez, Odalis Perez, Freddy Garcia, Kris Benson, Ryan Dempster, Matt Clement are all free agents next year.

Remember, this is a two year plan. DEFENSE up the middle, 2b, CF, SS, CLOSER, and restocking the system was fixed this season. SP, RF up next season.

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01-11-2004, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #37-#93-#27
Do you see any pitchers available that fit the bill?

This is not a ONE YEAR PLAN this is a two year plan as JD has repeatadly said. They only want to be in contention this season and don't expect much more.

They are not pushing to sign a 33 year old, 100 pounds over weight colon to a 4 year deal.

I did not want Colon.

What kind of message does it send to your fans when Miguel Batista is deemed too expensive? What kind of message does it send when Roger Cedeno, Timo Perez or Raul Gonzalez is going to play RF?

And I don't care what Duquette or Wilpon say. They have been talking out of their ear the entire off season. They look at the Cubs as a model of the kind of turn around they believe the Mets can have. Yet there is not a Sammy Sosa, Kerry Wood or Mark Prior on this team.

Whether it is a 1,2 or 3 year plan signing Guerrero fits the bill for what they are trying to do. So what if he would be 32 when the deal is up. The deal is up at that point. And I just don't believe that 32 is old in this day and age anymore.

And an investment in Vlad is more than an investment on the field. He is a money maker. People would come to see him play. Between Matsui and Vlad, the Mets would draw interest from Japanese and Dominican fans alike. That is a huge market to attract in New York.

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01-11-2004, 08:57 AM
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Nyr4life was talking about free agents for 2005 mentioning Kerry Wood,etc here's a list i found on another board.

2005 Free Agents

Pitchers:
Kerry Wood
Matt Clement
Ryan Dempster
Odalis Perez
Pedro Martinez
Derek Lowe
Matt Morris
Kris Benson
Russ Ortiz
Eric Milton
Brad Radke
Freddy Garcia
Scott Williamson
Bobby Howry
Jose Jimenez
Felix Rodriguez
Troy Percival
Robb Nen
Mariano Rivera

Infield:
Jason Varitek
Paul Kornerko
Derrek Lee
Richie Sexson
Carlos Delgado
Jose Vidro
Corey Koskie
Eric Chavez
Adrian Beltre
Aaron Boone
Troy Glaus
Cristian Guzman
Orlando Cabrera
Nomar Garciaparra

Outfield:
Trot Nixon
Carlos Beltran
J.D Drew
Magglio Ordonez
Garret Anderson
Geoff Jenkins

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01-11-2004, 09:06 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap215
Nyr4life was talking about free agents for 2005 mentioning Kerry Wood,etc here's a list i found on another board.

2005 Free Agents

Pitchers:
Kerry Wood
Matt Clement
Ryan Dempster
Odalis Perez
Pedro Martinez
Derek Lowe
Matt Morris
Kris Benson
Russ Ortiz
Eric Milton
Brad Radke
Freddy Garcia
Scott Williamson
Bobby Howry
Jose Jimenez
Felix Rodriguez
Troy Percival
Robb Nen
Mariano Rivera

Infield:
Jason Varitek
Paul Kornerko
Derrek Lee
Richie Sexson
Carlos Delgado
Jose Vidro
Corey Koskie
Eric Chavez
Adrian Beltre
Aaron Boone
Troy Glaus
Cristian Guzman
Orlando Cabrera
Nomar Garciaparra

Outfield:
Trot Nixon
Carlos Beltran
J.D Drew
Magglio Ordonez
Garret Anderson
Geoff Jenkins

A nice list but I don't see one player who is as good as or who fits a hole as well as Vlad.

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01-11-2004, 10:30 AM
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I can see the point that the Mets made the same mistake here as they did with A-Rod, but I still think they handled this the right way. Although Vlad (when healthy) is one of the top 5 players in the league, it would be an awfully big risk to build your team around this guy because, as mentioned, the back will always be the big issue with him. Its alot like trying to build your team around Lindros. If he would've signed the 3 year deal with health-based incentives and options for more years, that would be perfect because if he stayed healthy, the Mets could've then extended his contract. If he didnt stay healthy, they wouldnt be saddled under a huge long-term deal. By taking the guaranteed money and refusing to play in a highly Dominican populated city, Vlad showed that all he really wanted all along was money and that he's not fully confident in his back staying healthy.

And as for the argument that the Mets' outfield has been horrible the last 5 years. No question its been a problem, but correct me if I'm wrong. Didnt the Mets go to the World Series a few years ago with Jay Payton, Timo Perez, Melvin Mora, and Benny Agbayani as their outfielders? Surely you dont think that group is any better than what they have now (Floyd, Cameron, Perez, and perhaps a new and improved Cedeno). What they did have that year was solid pitching, which is what they dont have now, and also what they'll be able to vastly improve next winter with the money saved from Vlad and the pitchers that are coming through the system.

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01-11-2004, 11:50 AM
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vlady used the mets to get his price up. a rookie gm fell into an agents trap and now the mets are left at the alter. it was a good try. the only mistake the mets really made was telling the press they wanted him. if i were a mets fan i would be upset right now. but i thank god im not

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