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NHL Arena for 30,000 fans. Why, Why Not?

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Old
10-09-2007, 04:29 PM
  #101
xander
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Originally Posted by STA View Post
In Vancouver, Montreal or Toronto, those seats would be a lot more than $5.

and "More toilets, more concessions areas, higher maintenance cost, cost of having to buy more land for the arena, more supplies to build the arena" could be used as an argument against any increase in the number of seats, why not just make all arenas with 10 000 seats then, if fewer seats is always so much more advantagous.
It's not a matter of more or fewer seats being better, but rather how many seats are desirable to the public at the price that you need to sell them. If you could add 5,000 seats in the lower bowl then it would be a no-brainer, but that's not possible. If you have to charge a higher price for those new seats than the public will pay, then they won't sell.

For example: I would consider myself a die hard ranger fan, however, I won't pay $45 dollars to sit in the 400 level seats at MSG because the view is awful and I just don't think it's worth it. I'd rather pay an extra $15 to sit in the 300 level or nothing to watch the game at home. Thus, adding more 400 level or higher seats to MSG wouldn't increase my likely hood to buy those tickets, unless their price was drastically reduced. This is despite the fact that I jump on ranger tickets whenever I can get them and have the funds to afford them.

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Old
10-09-2007, 05:30 PM
  #102
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Well, if your head is in the sand, sure. But every Canadian team gives out free tickets.
I should have rephrased that better, its expected you will have limited tickets for charities/players relatives etc.... but you will not see any canadian teams giving away tickets due to a lack of damand which is what there forced to due in weak markets.

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10-09-2007, 06:45 PM
  #103
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Wiki is wrong St.Petes Time forum seats over 22K
no, you are wrong. I just looked at 5 other sources that have it at 19 and change. I have not found a single source that says otherwise.

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Old
10-09-2007, 06:49 PM
  #104
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no, you are wrong. I just looked at 5 other sources that have it at 19 and change. I have not found a single source that says otherwise.

from the st pete time forum webpage itself


Forum Facts:
The St. Pete Times Forum encompasses 660,000 square feet with three decks and seven separate levels. The building is 133 feet 10 inches in height and 493 feet in diameter. It contains 3,400 tons of steel, 30,000 cubic yards of concrete and 70,000 square feet of glass. The innovative design of the St. Pete Times Forum provides for 19,758 seats for NHL games

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10-10-2007, 06:25 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
no, you are wrong. I just looked at 5 other sources that have it at 19 and change. I have not found a single source that says otherwise.
That's what's considered a sellout. What was quoted to you in the first place that you incorrectly disputed was that they hold the record for attendance at a playoff game at 22k+. Where they fit these extra people is beyond me, because I've been there with a little under 21k and it looked pretty jam packed to me. I think they sold a lot of SRO tickets for the club level.

The SPTF is the 2nd largest NHL arena after the Bell Centre.

As for the seating chart of the Thunderdome which someone asked for, I haven't seen one online. Someone would have to scan one out of an old program or something, I guess.

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10-10-2007, 09:53 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by xander View Post
It's not a matter of more or fewer seats being better, but rather how many seats are desirable to the public at the price that you need to sell them.
That is precisely the reasoning for the new MLB ball parks being smaller than the stadiums they used to play in. They end up with fewer seats but more of them that are closer to the action that they can charge more for.

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10-10-2007, 12:03 PM
  #107
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There was talk, about 10-15 years ago, of the Detroit Red Wings looking at building a 30,000-seat arena. Haven't heard much about it for years, though.

Personally, I don't think it's going to happen. In the mid-90s, there was a bit of a fad with building large arenas. Montreal and Chicago both constructed arenas that could seat well over 20,000 people. St. Louis was close to 20,000. (Detroit and Calgary, at the time, were, I believe, the only rinks that could accommodate nearly 20,000).

But in recent years, teams have gone back to the 17,000 to 18,000-seat range. I think the disaster of Chicago's arena was part of that. They went from a tight, steep, small rink with incredible ambiance to this massive structure that seats well over 20,000 and has no atmosphere. The old Chicago Stadium was built up, giving every fan in the joint a great view; the United Centre was built out, and the sightlines are terrible.

I don't think we'll see 30,000-seat arenas for a very long time. Bigger doesn't always mean better. 18,000, with all the added amenities (club seats, boxes, luxury suites) is about the ideal number for an NHL rink. Unless you could find a way to build a rink up, like the Chicago Stadium, and accommodate 30,000 people.

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10-10-2007, 02:04 PM
  #108
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For the Thunderdome these were the only two I could find.... so far.



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Old
10-10-2007, 06:05 PM
  #109
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Not a bad attendance considering it was an expansion team back then.

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10-11-2007, 02:20 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by xander View Post
But is that demand depends on the price and quality of the ticket. If the cost of building and maintaining five to ten thousand more seats is higher than what fans will pay to sit that far away, then they won't be filled. Lets say that the cheapest seat in arena X is 45 dollars. You then add 6,000 seats that are higher and farther away, but the only way to make a profit of those seats (both in terms of construction and infrastructure) is to charge $40. Are fans really going to pay that much to sit in a seat that is far away from the ice? The demand for the previously existing seats will remain the same, but the demand for the new seats may be significantly lower.


I think the only way to make this work is if you designed the seating to be radically vertical, perhaps even with higher decks overhanging lower ones. That way you might be able make the viewing experience from those higher decks nice enough to warrant the prices that you would have to charge.
Yes, no question, the demand for the new seats would be lower (except in Toronto, where they could have 200,000 seats) but like I said, 10,000 X something = a lot.

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10-11-2007, 02:50 PM
  #111
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The price of the ticket really depends on the market.

In Toronto (and I would imagine Montreal as well) fans routinely pay over $100/seat for nosebleeds through scalpers and eBay. Depending on the opponent (Pittsburgh, Montreal, etc.), regular season games go as high as $350/pair in the nosebleeds.

Ignoring the fact that the ACC is still very new, MLSE could easily sellout a 25,000 seat stadium even if ticket prices were increased such that the additional 5,000 seats were the same as the current nosebleeds.

The only thing that would happen is that scalping would become a little less profitable because of the increased supply of tickets. The demand would still far outweigh the current supply, and easily support high face value prices.

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10-11-2007, 03:01 PM
  #112
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I dont see NHL arenas getting past the 25,000 mark. And that would only be in the really big markets. The problem withbig arenas are: if the team suddenly goes downhill and ticket sales drop, then the arena then becomes cavernous.

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10-11-2007, 03:16 PM
  #113
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Expanding to such sizes really compromises the viability of these arenas as concert venues. Then they become dormant, one-dimensional money pits like NFL stadiums.

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Old
10-11-2007, 07:09 PM
  #114
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I think vancouver could do at least 25000

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Old
10-11-2007, 07:52 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamlando View Post
I think vancouver could do at least 25000
Any Canadian team can sell out 30,000+ arena.

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Old
10-11-2007, 08:43 PM
  #116
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[QUOTE=psod;10733763In Toronto (and I would imagine Montreal as well) fans routinely pay over $100/seat for nosebleeds through scalpers and eBay. Depending on the opponent (Pittsburgh, Montreal, etc.), regular season games go as high as $350/pair in the nosebleeds..[/QUOTE]

I dont know about Toronto, but in Montreal you have to be really stupid to pay 100$ to a scalper for a nosebleed seat. The max I ever gave a scalper for a nosebleed was 80$, and that was for a home opener. Usually I pay 60$.

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Old
10-12-2007, 10:50 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Angrychair View Post
I dont know about Toronto, but in Montreal you have to be really stupid to pay 100$ to a scalper for a nosebleed seat. The max I ever gave a scalper for a nosebleed was 80$, and that was for a home opener. Usually I pay 60$.
Well, I guess that suggests that the demand for tickets in Toronto is greater than what it is in Montreal. It's not a matter of being really stupid, it's a matter of supply and demand.

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Old
10-12-2007, 11:07 PM
  #118
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Hmmmmm
I think the issue would visibility of the ice from the cheap seats.
My wife went to see the Pats and sat in the the 300 section at the very top and she could see players but barely see the ball.

sure you can build it but will they fill it? nah

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Old
10-13-2007, 10:46 AM
  #119
Terry Cahill
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Originally Posted by Tb0ne View Post
The title pretty much says it all.

As far as I can tell the biggest arena in the NHL is the Montreal Canadiens' Bell Centre which seats 21,273 for hockey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Centre

Now since the Bell Centre and many arenas in this league have been built quite recently, there probably isn't any rush to build new ones. However at some point they definatly will and that got me asking this question:

Will there ever be any NHL arenas sitting 30,000 (or more) fans? and if not, why?

Because three quaters of 'em would be half empty.

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Old
10-13-2007, 02:32 PM
  #120
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Because three quaters of 'em would be half empty.
How can a seat be half-empty?

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Old
10-13-2007, 03:42 PM
  #121
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It wouldn't surprise me if Detroit made an arena with 40k seats, with $500 being the cheapest tickets.

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Old
10-13-2007, 03:48 PM
  #122
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Because three quaters of 'em would be half empty.
3/4*0.5+1/4= 0,625

62,5% of the arena would be filled with other words.

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Old
10-13-2007, 04:33 PM
  #123
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Any Canadian team can sell out 30,000+ arena.
Not true, I only see Toronto and Montreal capable of doing it. Even with bad teams they get over 20,000 per game in Montreal (late 1990's) and over 19,000 in Toronto (mid 1990's) As for Vancouver and Calgary they had dreadful attendance back when their team sucked. Same with Ottawa. Edmonton might sell over 25,000 but it's yet to be seen if they could get over 17,000...

As of right now, the only teams who could be close of selling out 30,000 seats arenas are Montreal and Toronto.

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Old
10-13-2007, 05:24 PM
  #124
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no i dont think so. yes, unless we are all stupid heads and some guy comes along with an idea that we all should have known about the was really simple. but final answer no and if there was i wouldnt want to be sitting on the top.

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Old
09-14-2011, 12:40 PM
  #125
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see this, arena under construction in philippines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...r_construction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Arena

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