HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Pavel Kubina: overpaid?

View Poll Results: Is Kubina overpaid?
Overpaid 117 80.14%
Underpaid 4 2.74%
Paid fairly 25 17.12%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-10-2007, 09:59 AM
  #1
DG
Registered User
 
DG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,728
vCash: 500
Pavel Kubina: overpaid?

After browsing HF a little, I have noticed that many people seem to find Kubina to be overrated and/or overpaid. I just want to see if it's just the vocal minority that think he's not very good or whether he's actually thought of as a pretty good defender.

Kubina has a cap hit of 5 million dollars. He was the #1/2 defenseman on a Stanley Cup winning team only 3 years ago. He plays on a team that is not the best defensively. Other players of about the same calibre make about the same or more (Adrian Aucoin, Roman Hamrlik, Matty Norstrom, Mathieu Schnieder, Jay McKee all between 4-6 million).

So, is Kubina vastly overpaid? If he is overpaid, how much do you think he's worth?

DG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 10:00 AM
  #2
PANTHERS OWN YOU*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,442
vCash: 500
Overpayed. He shouldnt touch more than 3-4.

PANTHERS OWN YOU* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 10:06 AM
  #3
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,499
vCash: 500
He's about as good as... Roman Hamrlik?

I thought he was looking good in the pre-season games, but not sure that's carried over yet (or if it will). He could be worth $5M. But, like Hamrlik, it's hard to really say right now that he is.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 10:07 AM
  #4
DG
Registered User
 
DG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
He could be worth $5M.
It's true, we don't really know how he will play. However, do you think $5M is fair considering the market value for defensemen?

DG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 10:34 AM
  #5
SilverSeven
Registered User
 
SilverSeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,138
vCash: 500
Remember, the market has changed from what it was when he signed.

SilverSeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 10:36 AM
  #6
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 32,991
vCash: 500
Overpaid

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 10:36 AM
  #7
Spawn
Registered User
 
Spawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,372
vCash: 500
I always thought he was a really good d-man, 5 million seems about right. He can be a top pairing d-man on most teams.

Spawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 10:41 AM
  #8
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,857
vCash: 500
the market is changing so fast that it's tough to say right now.

I think that Kubina was slightly overpaid when he signed that contract. Now, with the cap going up, and salaries going up (ie. Hamrlik), he's pretty much what should be expected for a dman like him.

basically under a $39mill cap, he's vastly overpaid.... under a $44mill cap (when he signed), he's slightly overpaid (and justified to pay more to get a player from another team to sign as a UFA).... under a $50mill cap, he's about where he should be.

if things continue like this, by next season, he'll be underpaid!

NFITO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 10:42 AM
  #9
DG
Registered User
 
DG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
Remember, the market has changed from what it was when he signed.
Aucoin, Norstrom and McKee all signed at the same time and make slightly less money... and I'd say Kubina's slightly better than all of them.

And the market may not be the same as it was then, but the deal is long-term, so even if they overpaid him then, isn't it fair to say they may have anticipated the rise in the cap and that over the course of the deal that it would even out?

For the record, I'm not totally sure how I feel about his contract, I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate. But, if he is overpaid, I don't feel it's by a whole lot.

DG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 10:44 AM
  #10
boredmale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,102
vCash: 500
I would go with fairly paid. You might argue he is making 500k to much as a worst case scenerio.

boredmale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 10:47 AM
  #11
CanoeRider
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 439
vCash: 500
I think he signed in the wrong spot. Kubina needs PP time to prove his worth and with McCabe and Kaberle taking all the time in Toronto. He was put in a situation to fail from the get-go. If he got traded to a place where he was #1 or #2 option on the PP I think we could expect 40-45 points from him.

CanoeRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 10:55 AM
  #12
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,243
vCash: 500
Well, he's adequately paid, from a full market value perspective. Obviously, the Leafs continue to feel he's worth the money. If he was gone, they'd be scrambling to use that $5M to get an adequate replacement.

But, if you put him up on the market, there would probably only be a small number of teams that would see a lot of value in him. There would definitely be some, but, most teams wouldn't have use for him at that price, unless they can also dump a contract they don't want.

There are also a lot of better deals out there for 2/3rd defenceman.

discostu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 11:01 AM
  #13
DG
Registered User
 
DG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu View Post
There are also a lot of better deals out there for 2/3rd defenceman.
A lot of them are on hometown discount kind of deals though (Phillips, Volchenkov, Salo, Ohlund, Regehr...).

There was obviously a market for players of his calibre this offseason though, since the Habs threw 5.5 at Hamrlik who I think is comparable to Kubina, at very least.

DG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 11:43 AM
  #14
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbdudley View Post
It's true, we don't really know how he will play. However, do you think $5M is fair considering the market value for defensemen?
Seems close enough to fair, I guess. My apologies for twisting this back to the habocentric Hamrlik situation again... but... there are specific team circumstances which might make such a grey-area deal better or worse for one team than another. Having Kaberle and McCabe together already would make me less inclined to want to pay Kubina $5M. Having just Markov and watching Souray walk out the door would make me considerably more inclined. Soooo... I think Kubina is "fair market value" overall: somewhat overpaid from the perspective of what he brings the Leafs, but I'd have taken him at that price from the Habs POV and considered it quite fair.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 01:37 PM
  #15
RocheBag
Registered User
 
RocheBag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CBS, Newfoundland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,101
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to RocheBag Send a message via MSN to RocheBag
I'd say he should be making around 4, so slightly overpaid for me.

RocheBag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 01:37 PM
  #16
Mr BLUEandWHITE
Registered User
 
Mr BLUEandWHITE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,241
vCash: 500
every player in the NHL is overpaid.

Mr BLUEandWHITE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 03:11 PM
  #17
Parise 9
 
Parise 9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 379
vCash: 500
Overpaid

Parise 9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 05:17 PM
  #18
Sotnos
Registered User
 
Sotnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Not here
Posts: 10,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanoeRider View Post
I think he signed in the wrong spot. Kubina needs PP time to prove his worth and with McCabe and Kaberle taking all the time in Toronto. He was put in a situation to fail from the get-go. If he got traded to a place where he was #1 or #2 option on the PP I think we could expect 40-45 points from him.
Absolutely correct. He'd probably have more of a contribution if he wasn't in that situation, but he did choose it himself and the Leafs haven't traded him yet so I guess they're OK with what he's doing. He's kind of wasted on that team, IMO, but his pay is probably about right for what he could do.

__________________
Boltprospects: Your online source for Tampa Bay Lightning Prospect News
Sotnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2007, 05:52 PM
  #19
tony d
The franchise
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,928
vCash: 500
Overpaid.

tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2007, 02:18 AM
  #20
brownman*
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,229
vCash: 500
He should making more if anything

brownman* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2007, 07:37 AM
  #21
Redwingsfan
Global Moderator
What rust??
 
Redwingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Norway
Posts: 19,076
vCash: 500
Awards:
Send a message via MSN to Redwingsfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownman View Post
He should making more if anything
LOL


he is overpaid. 3.5 would be enough for him.

Redwingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2007, 07:56 AM
  #22
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
 
Psycho Papa Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cesspool, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,357
vCash: 500
I think it's more of a case of underperforming, rather than being overpaid. If he was playing like he did in TB, I wouldn't have a problem with his salary. But in Toronto he has quite simply not been the same very good all round d-man he was in TB. IMO he was the best d-man on a Cup champion, so that must be worth something.

Psycho Papa Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2007, 08:36 AM
  #23
flannelman
default user
 
flannelman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lempster, NH
Country: Ireland
Posts: 10,620
vCash: 920
overpaid.

flannelman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2007, 08:38 AM
  #24
bastone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,100
vCash: 500
Overpaid big time

bastone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2007, 03:10 PM
  #25
Fleury14
Kipper
 
Fleury14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 4,466
vCash: 500
For the player, he's not overpaid. However, it makes zero sense to sign a guy that will be your #3 blueliner to a $5m/yr contract.

Fleury14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.