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Boucher solid for the Phantoms

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Old
10-14-2007, 08:02 PM
  #1
pelts35.com
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Boucher solid for the Phantoms

Thus far allowing only 7 goals in 4 games.

Berube is certainly giving him a lot of playing time, with Munroe getting his first start of the season tonight against WB/S.

It will be interesting to see when a starting goalie somewhere around the league goes down with in an injury if there is any interest in Boucher.

Given that he has an AHL contract, am I correct in that he can sign an NHL contract with any team and the Flyers would get no compensation in return?

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10-14-2007, 08:06 PM
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I believe you are correct.

But i know for a fact that he's awesome in net.

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10-14-2007, 08:14 PM
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I believe you are correct.

But i know for a fact that he's awesome in net.
to bad the goalie market is stagnant as i wouldlove to trade nitty and have boucher as the backup. no point in trading him now unless he was part of a package as allyou would get is a mid rd draft pick i believe.

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10-14-2007, 08:25 PM
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BillyShoe1721
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we should definetely call him up.

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10-14-2007, 09:22 PM
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Yertle The Turtle
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Boucher > Downie > Biron



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10-14-2007, 09:49 PM
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Another good one.
http://stats.theahl.com/stats/game-s...ame_id=1003554

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10-14-2007, 09:56 PM
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That says Munroe played.

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10-14-2007, 10:10 PM
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That says Munroe played.
Yeah, that's what pelts said in the first post. I was refering to the game in general.

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10-14-2007, 10:12 PM
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Oh, I see. Sorry.

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10-15-2007, 08:52 AM
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Boucher IMO is a "tweener". He's too good for the AHL, but not good enough for the NHL. I'm a little surprised he didn't opt for a bigger payday and easier schedule by going to Europe. He would definitely be a top netminder in the DEL.

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10-15-2007, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Boucher IMO is a "tweener". He's too good for the AHL, but not good enough for the NHL. I'm a little surprised he didn't opt for a bigger payday and easier schedule by going to Europe. He would definitely be a top netminder in the DEL.
See I think he was good enough for the NHL. But to me he falls into one of those emotional/inconsistent goalies. Somewhat like Esche, when they are on their game they can be stellar. But more often than not it seems like the pressure gets to them. Its almost as if they are bi-polar lol. Ive heard Esche talk himself up, and if you remember Boucher way back in a playoff run, in a few interviews he practically said he kept the team afloat all by himself. Highs and lows.

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10-15-2007, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Boucher IMO is a "tweener". He's too good for the AHL, but not good enough for the NHL. I'm a little surprised he didn't opt for a bigger payday and easier schedule by going to Europe. He would definitely be a top netminder in the DEL.
because he has a young family and didn't want to take them there... and was hoping to work himself back into the NHL.

i don't think he can simply sign a NHL contract as you suggested above either. at least not without the Flyers permission... a contract is a contract. might be wrong about that, but by signing he ceased to be a "free agent".

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10-15-2007, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
See I think he was good enough for the NHL. But to me he falls into one of those emotional/inconsistent goalies. Somewhat like Esche, when they are on their game they can be stellar. But more often than not it seems like the pressure gets to them. Its almost as if they are bi-polar lol. Ive heard Esche talk himself up, and if you remember Boucher way back in a playoff run, in a few interviews he practically said he kept the team afloat all by himself. Highs and lows.
I think you have a point there. I point to the fact that when he was at the top of his game, he had a calming influence behind him in Beezer. Once Beezer was gone and he had someone who was obviously a head case in Chechmanek trying to take his job, he fell victim to the pressure of trying to maintain that level of play and keep his job. I think we gave up on him too quickly and his confidence just snowballed from there.

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10-15-2007, 11:43 AM
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because he has a young family and didn't want to take them there... and was hoping to work himself back into the NHL.

i don't think he can simply sign a NHL contract as you suggested above either. at least not without the Flyers permission... a contract is a contract. might be wrong about that, but by signing he ceased to be a "free agent".
There are plenty of players in similar situations that opt to go to Europe for the higher salary, easier travel schedule and shorter season. Not to mention that a light's out season against the better competition of the DEL would give his as good of a shot to returning to the NHL in 08-09.

For your second point, I'm not sure. It doesn't seem "fair" that if an NHL team wanted to sign him that the AHL contract could hold him back from an opportunity at the higher league and potentially higher salary. However you could be right that a contract is a contract.

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10-15-2007, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
There are plenty of players in similar situations that opt to go to Europe for the higher salary, easier travel schedule and shorter season. Not to mention that a light's out season against the better competition of the DEL would give his as good of a shot to returning to the NHL in 08-09.
which is fine for them... but not everyone is interested in either living away from their family for the majority of the year, or having them move to a foreign country (particularly with small children going to school). additionally, if a player signs over to Europe there is zero chance they can play in the NHL this season... in Boucher's case, he's one serious injury to the Flyers away from possibly having a job in the NHL.

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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
For your second point, I'm not sure. It doesn't seem "fair" that if an NHL team wanted to sign him that the AHL contract could hold him back from an opportunity at the higher league and potentially higher salary. However you could be right that a contract is a contract.
The player signed an AHL contract to play professional hockey for the '07-'08 season... I'm not sure it would be fair to THAT organization if a team could suddenly just come in and buy that player away just because they wanted them... similarly, players cannot be signed away from European leagues just because a NHL team might want the player.

Boucher was signed to the Phantoms to be the emergency goalie solution for the Flyers... which suggest to me that they're the only ones with rights to purchase up his contract (since they own the AHL affiliate). What I'm curious about is if that avoids the waiver issue that would normally come into play in bringing a player up from the minors...

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10-15-2007, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The player signed an AHL contract to play professional hockey for the '07-'08 season... I'm not sure it would be fair to THAT organization if a team could suddenly just come in and buy that player away just because they wanted them... similarly, players cannot be signed away from European leagues just because a NHL team might want the player.

Boucher was signed to the Phantoms to be the emergency goalie solution for the Flyers... which suggest to me that they're the only ones with rights to purchase up his contract (since they own the AHL affiliate). What I'm curious about is if that avoids the waiver issue that would normally come into play in bringing a player up from the minors...
I'm pretty sure that Boucher would have to clear waivers if called up. I believe that one reason of why he signed an AHL contract in the first place was so that he didn't have to clear to be sent down.

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10-15-2007, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
I'm pretty sure that Boucher would have to clear waivers if called up. I believe that one reason of why he signed an AHL contract in the first place was so that he didn't have to clear to be sent down.
He signed an AHL contract, so he is only signed by the Phantoms. The only connection between Boucher and the Flyers is, that the Phantoms are the Flyers AHL affiliate.

Boucher only can play for the Flyers if he signs a contract with them first. As far as I know every NHL team can buy his contract out and sign him to a NHL contract.

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10-15-2007, 01:33 PM
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He signed an AHL contract, so he is only signed by the Phantoms. The only connection between Boucher and the Flyers is, that the Phantoms are the Flyers AHL affiliate.

Boucher only can play for the Flyers if he signs a contract with them first. As far as I know every NHL team can buy his contract out and sign him to a NHL contract.
but do the "Phantoms" need to agree to that buy out? that's where I think he technically becomes property of the Flyers... as they own the AHL affiliate, thus have power to nix that from happening.

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10-15-2007, 02:22 PM
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but do the "Phantoms" need to agree to that buy out? that's where I think he technically becomes property of the Flyers... as they own the AHL affiliate, thus have power to nix that from happening.
I have sent an email to the AHL citing this exact example and will post the reply as soon as I get it. Typically replies are sent within 2-3 days.

My understanding of AHL contracts is that an AHL contract applies to the AHL club only and that the player is not property of the parent club, thus the player can sign with any NHL team. However, in this case, I believe that Boucher would still need to clear waivers. So, a team could sign him to a contract only for another team to claim him.

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10-15-2007, 02:29 PM
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Jester
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
I have sent an email to the AHL citing this exact example and will post the reply as soon as I get it. Typically replies are sent within 2-3 days.

My understanding of AHL contracts is that an AHL contract applies to the AHL club only and that the player is not property of the parent club, thus the player can sign with any NHL team. However, in this case, I believe that Boucher would still need to clear waivers. So, a team could sign him to a contract only for another team to claim him.
i agree with your interpretation of the contracts... however, in this case the AHL and NHL clubs are essentially one and the same, as they are owned by the same entity... as opposed to situations where the AHL club truly is an "affiliate" and the NHL club merely uses them to place players.

if they buy out the contract, i would imagine that's similar to being signed as a FA and thus waivers wouldn't be needed... they would be necessary to put him back in the AHL.

the more interesting question, is whether anyone can come along and buy out Boucher's contract.

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10-15-2007, 02:56 PM
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i agree with your interpretation of the contracts... however, in this case the AHL and NHL clubs are essentially one and the same, as they are owned by the same entity... as opposed to situations where the AHL club truly is an "affiliate" and the NHL club merely uses them to place players.[/B]
I don't think that the fact that the Flyers own the Phantoms changes anything with regards to who his NHL rights belong to. It would be the same if Boucher, for example, signed an AHL contract with Hershey, who is the affiliate for Washington, but is not owned by the Capitals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jester
if they buy out the contract, i would imagine that's similar to being signed as a FA and thus waivers wouldn't be needed... they would be necessary to put him back in the AHL.

the more interesting question, is whether anyone can come along and buy out Boucher's contract.
You could be right about not being subject to waivers if bought out.

I hope to have an answer to your final question soon.

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10-15-2007, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
I don't think that the fact that the Flyers own the Phantoms changes anything with regards to who his NHL rights belong to. It would be the same if Boucher, for example, signed an AHL contract with Hershey, who is the affiliate for Washington, but is not owned by the Capitals.
if the AHL "affiliate" can either agree or not agree to a buy out by a NHL team, then the fact that the Flyers, in fact, run the Phantoms is very much an issue there.

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10-15-2007, 03:23 PM
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if the AHL "affiliate" can either agree or not agree to a buy out by a NHL team, then the fact that the Flyers, in fact, run the Phantoms is very much an issue there.
Per usual we disagree, but at least this time the debate can be resolved and isn't just a difference of opinion.

However, under your scenario, why would any AHL team, regardless if they are owned by the NHL club or just an affiliate, allow a player's contract to be bought out if said player is having a good season? If Boucher played for Hershey, why would Hershey agree to a buy out?


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10-15-2007, 03:32 PM
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Per usual we disagree, but at least this time the debate can be resolved and isn't just a difference of opinion.
i'm not sure why we disagree...

independent AHL affiliate (Hershey Bears) has a player under contract to an AHL contract... NHL team wants to buy out player and Hershey is fine with seeing the player go and get some quick cash, no problems.

Phantoms, owned and operated by the Flyers parent company, has a player (Boucher) in a similar situation and a NHL team comes along... Flyers want Boucher as an emergency option in the event of injuries at the parent company (the reason for signing him in the first place), thus they're not going to agree to see Boucher signed to another NHL club.

now, they may or may not have the right to not allow that to happen... i don't know, but i would wager the AHL team has the right to say "no" to a buy out... in which case the different nature of the respective ownerships does come into play. for an independent AHL team, it doesn't really matter what is going on at the NHL level... the Phantoms are not an independent affiliate. the question is whether or not the right to say "no" exists... neither of us know, but i can't imagine you don't agree that the Flyers do not want Boucher leaving the Phantoms given the nature of why they signed him to that contract in the first place.

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10-15-2007, 03:42 PM
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i'm not sure why we disagree...

independent AHL affiliate (Hershey Bears) has a player under contract to an AHL contract... NHL team wants to buy out player and Hershey is fine with seeing the player go and get some quick cash, no problems.

Phantoms, owned and operated by the Flyers parent company, has a player (Boucher) in a similar situation and a NHL team comes along... Flyers want Boucher as an emergency option in the event of injuries at the parent company (the reason for signing him in the first place), thus they're not going to agree to see Boucher signed to another NHL club.

now, they may or may not have the right to not allow that to happen... i don't know, but i would wager the AHL team has the right to say "no" to a buy out... in which case the different nature of the respective ownerships does come into play. for an independent AHL team, it doesn't really matter what is going on at the NHL level... the Phantoms are not an independent affiliate. the question is whether or not the right to say "no" exists... neither of us know, but i can't imagine you don't agree that the Flyers do not want Boucher leaving the Phantoms given the nature of why they signed him to that contract in the first place.
We disagree because you seem to think that the fact that the Flyers own the Phantoms has bearing on Boucher's rights while I don't believe that it does. My belief is that any team in the NHL can offer Boucher a contract and the fact that the Phantoms are owned by the Flyers is no different than if he played for Hershey who is not owned by the Capitals.

Explain to me why Hershey is okay with letting the player go. If he is having a great season and is a big reason why the team is having success, why would they be okay with him leaving? What does the player getting "quick cash" have to do with Hershey and their desire to win a Calder Cup? Both the owned AHL club and independent AHL club have valid reasons as to why they would not let a player go. The owned parent club doesn't want the player to go in case he is needed to be called up while the independent club wants the player on their roster.

Under what you are saying, teams that own their AHL affiliate have a pretty significant advantage over teams that don't as they can "store" emergency players in the AHL. I don't necessarily think that the NHL would allow this advantage.

What we do agree on is that the Flyers don't want him to leave the Phantoms.

That said I'm still not 100% certain that Boucher can be called up to the Flyers without clearing waivers.

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