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TSN: Stars make push for Forsberg

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Old
10-21-2007, 01:59 PM
  #51
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
It's completely unrealistic to expect this team to keep scoring the way it is. At the first sign of struggles, almost all of you people saying no to Forsberg will change your mind. Things are going good now, but you're fooling yourself to think that by December when Forsberg could sign, we'll still be winning and scoring at this rate.

Not to mention, Forsberg's primary function is as a playoff performer. Even if Carter, Richards, Upshall, Lupul etc. have career years, except for Lupul's 4 goal game, they are all unproven playoff performers.
you mean we're not going to continue at a 4 GFA pace? 328 goals this season isn't going to happen? blasphemy.

i for one fully expect the following at the end of the year:
Briere - 129 pts.
Richards - 105 pts (59 goals!).
Gagne - 94 pts.
Lupul - 82 pts.
Jones - 70 pts (Norris candidate!)

things will turn, this road trip should be interesting.

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10-21-2007, 02:02 PM
  #52
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almost all of you people saying no to Forsberg will change your mind.
Not me. I'm under no delusion that this team is going to contend for a cup this year, with or without Glass Jaw.

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10-21-2007, 02:04 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
you mean we're not going to continue at a 4 GFA pace? 328 goals this season isn't going to happen? blasphemy.

i for one fully expect the following at the end of the year:
Briere - 129 pts.
Richards - 105 pts (59 goals!).
Gagne - 94 pts.
Lupul - 82 pts.
Jones - 70 pts (Norris candidate!)

things will turn, this road trip should be interesting.
I hope you're kidding about Jones' being a Norris candidate...I am at the forefront of supporting Jones but no way...just no way

it be nice to see Richards nab 40-45, keyword nice.

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10-21-2007, 02:06 PM
  #54
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I hope you're kidding about Jones' being a Norris candidate...I am at the forefront of supporting Jones but no way...just no way

it be nice to see Richards nab 40-45, keyword nice.
the point of that post completely went over your head.

and, yes, if Jones has 70 pts he will be a Norris candidate. won't win, but he'll be among the group getting some talk at the end of the year.

addendum: Richards ain't getting 40 goals.

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10-21-2007, 02:08 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Not me. I'm under no delusion that this team is going to contend for a cup this year, with or without Glass Jaw.
at what point will you give them a chance? cuz once you're in the playoffs you have a chance... this team has explosive potential, and the emergence of Richards and Carter finding the net (along with Lupul and Umberger looking strong) equates to a very strong forward corps.

i'm not sold, and they have some work to do... but if they can keep their head above water through the first 20 games without hitting any serious bumps, they're going to be in a very good position for a very strong season as the real gelling begins to take place with all these new faces.

welcome to the salary cap era... teams can turn it around in a hurry... note the NFL.

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10-21-2007, 02:14 PM
  #56
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When they add a couple more defenders, or they show the ones they have can all be more consistent.


I don't buy into the 'if you are in, you can win.' attitude. I think if you are in, AND you have the right sort of team, you can win. Atlanta had no shot at winning last year. The Flyers are going to be an exciting team to watch this season, but they are anywhere close to good enough in their own end to win in the postseason.

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10-21-2007, 02:21 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
When they add a couple more defenders, or they show the ones they have can all be more consistent.


I don't buy into the 'if you are in, you can win.' attitude. I think if you are in, AND you have the right sort of team, you can win. Atlanta had no shot at winning last year. The Flyers are going to be an exciting team to watch this season, but they are anywhere close to good enough in their own end to win in the postseason.
you're going to have a tough time identifying teams that don't want a couple more defenders... that's the premium position, which is why you've seen so many defenders moving teams in the offseason with contracts teams can't match... Flyers aren't alone in that boat.

the Flyers have the potential to have 10x the offensive depth of the Thrashers this year.... Gagne, Briere, Knuble, Lupul, Carter, Hartnell, Upshall, Richards, Umberger... can all pot you 20+ goals... you get that level of depth scoring, you can win in the playoffs.

they're clearly still a work in progress, but if the young kids are scoring this team is much, much better than you're giving them credit for. the young kids are the key, and they're getting it done right now.

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10-21-2007, 02:45 PM
  #58
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I think you are confusing potential with current skill. This team CAN be much, much better, but I don't think they are there yet. And that said, I still think we don't win in the playoffs with this roster + Forsberg. Next year, maybe.

Don't get me wrong, I hope we win 60 games and go 16-2 in the postseason. I just don't think it's a realistic expectation.

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10-21-2007, 02:48 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I think you are confusing potential with current skill. This team CAN be much, much better, but I don't think they are there yet. And that said, I still think we don't win in the playoffs with this roster + Forsberg. Next year, maybe.

Don't get me wrong, I hope we win 60 games and go 16-2 in the postseason. I just don't think it's a realistic expectation.
Potential is a lot more relevant to something six months away than current skill is...

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10-21-2007, 02:49 PM
  #60
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Potential is a lot more relevant to something six months away than current skill is...
Only on HF.

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10-21-2007, 02:49 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I think you are confusing potential with current skill. This team CAN be much, much better, but I don't think they are there yet. And that said, I still think we don't win in the playoffs with this roster + Forsberg. Next year, maybe.

Don't get me wrong, I hope we win 60 games and go 16-2 in the postseason. I just don't think it's a realistic expectation.
not confusing potential with skill, but i will note that these guys are right where they should be age-wise to take off... note Eric Staal when a team that was picked to be the worst in the league won the cup... with other young players like Justin Williams getting their game together. what did they need to go with that? guys like Recchi, Weight, etc. to help them out.

we're right on the target years for when guys like Carter, Richards, Lupul, etc. should really be finding their games as forwards.

nor do you need to win 60 and go 16-2 in order to win the cup. hell, neither finalist won 50 games last year.

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10-22-2007, 03:16 PM
  #62
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Simple:

The issue here to me is the cap. Add Forsberg if the team looks like it can make a push to the playoffs and IF you are not removing one of the younger guys from this team like Umberger. If Forsberg is replacing Cote or Dowd in the lineup, fine. I dont want to trade someone like Umberger to make room for Forsberg for one year.

If brought here, I would try him with Carter and Knuble.

Just think if you could reunite Forsberg with Gagne/Knuble and play Briere with someone else

(lines, roll 4 lines even)

Gagne Forsberg Knuble
Hartnell Briere Lupul
Eager Carter Upshall
Umberger Richards Kapanen


Last edited by mikedifr: 10-22-2007 at 03:22 PM.
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10-22-2007, 03:42 PM
  #63
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as much as having a forsberg/briere 1-2 punch combo makes me salivate, id rather we put foppa on a wing so he doesnt get worn down as a center. still, those lines could potentially be a 1a-1b combo rather than a straight 1-2.

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10-22-2007, 03:51 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Simple:

The issue here to me is the cap. Add Forsberg if the team looks like it can make a push to the playoffs and IF you are not removing one of the younger guys from this team like Umberger. If Forsberg is replacing Cote or Dowd in the lineup, fine. I dont want to trade someone like Umberger to make room for Forsberg for one year.

If brought here, I would try him with Carter and Knuble.

Just think if you could reunite Forsberg with Gagne/Knuble and play Briere with someone else

(lines, roll 4 lines even)

Gagne Forsberg Knuble
Hartnell Briere Lupul
Eager Carter Upshall
Umberger Richards Kapanen
That doesn't work for me. If Forsberg signs, either he Carter or even Briere or Richards will have to switch to wing. I would still want our top players to get quality ice time by maybe taking away some from Eager and Kapanen and giving more to Richards, Carter and Upshall. If you're rolling 3 big lines, you'd have something like (I know it's probably been made before):

Gagne - Briere - Upshall
Forsberg - Carter - Knuble
Hartnell - Richards - Lupul
Eager - Umberger - Kapanen

The PP would be a little more complicated, since there is a bit of a log jam. You'd want to put Foppa on the top unit, but if you have him and Briere on the same PP, is there enough puck to split between the two of them? Either way, these would be great problems to have, and hopefully Homer finds the cap space to sign him (maybe Umberger has to be dealt).

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10-22-2007, 04:27 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
as much as having a forsberg/briere 1-2 punch combo makes me salivate, id rather we put foppa on a wing so he doesnt get worn down as a center. still, those lines could potentially be a 1a-1b combo rather than a straight 1-2.
I would start with him on the wing as well, just throwing that one out there for sh**s and giggles!! Can be done in spurts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepOrange View Post
That doesn't work for me. If Forsberg signs, either he Carter or even Briere or Richards will have to switch to wing. I would still want our top players to get quality ice time by maybe taking away some from Eager and Kapanen and giving more to Richards, Carter and Upshall. If you're rolling 3 big lines, you'd have something like (I know it's probably been made before):

Gagne - Briere - Upshall
Forsberg - Carter - Knuble
Hartnell - Richards - Lupul
Eager - Umberger - Kapanen

The PP would be a little more complicated, since there is a bit of a log jam. You'd want to put Foppa on the top unit, but if you have him and Briere on the same PP, is there enough puck to split between the two of them? Either way, these would be great problems to have, and hopefully Homer finds the cap space to sign him (maybe Umberger has to be dealt).
I would roll 4 lines, and Richards doesnt lose any playing time because he still gets the point on the #1 powerplay unit and plays the #1 pk unit. Those lines you have are fine though and were basically my initial thoughts. As noted above I would rather play Forsberg on the wing at this point in his career.

As for the powerplay, either Knuble or Gagne comes off the top unit. Briere is just as good a sniper as he is a playmaker so you make Forsberg become the passer, and Briere plays the LW so he can wind up for one-timers with his right hand shot. If you want to crash the net, Knuble plays up there, if you want speed and skill trying to find openings, Gagne plays up there.

Briere Knuble/Gagne Forsberg (how they set up in the zone, regardless of who takes the faceoff)
Timonen Richards

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10-22-2007, 04:30 PM
  #66
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Gagne - Briere - Upshall
Forsberg - Carter - Knuble
Hartnell - Richards - Lupul
Eager - Dowd - Kapanen

Umberger/Cote

I know Umberger has played great hockey so far, but so has Dowd, who is cheaper and still fits the 4th line role better. I wouldn't regret trading Umberger when Forsberg returns, as we will need space next season for Downie/Giroux anyway.

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10-22-2007, 05:10 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepOrange View Post
That doesn't work for me. If Forsberg signs, either he Carter or even Briere or Richards will have to switch to wing. I would still want our top players to get quality ice time by maybe taking away some from Eager and Kapanen and giving more to Richards, Carter and Upshall. If you're rolling 3 big lines, you'd have something like (I know it's probably been made before):

Gagne - Briere - Upshall
Forsberg - Carter - Knuble
Hartnell - Richards - Lupul
Eager - Umberger - Kapanen

The PP would be a little more complicated, since there is a bit of a log jam. You'd want to put Foppa on the top unit, but if you have him and Briere on the same PP, is there enough puck to split between the two of them? Either way, these would be great problems to have, and hopefully Homer finds the cap space to sign him (maybe Umberger has to be dealt).
I keep Forsberg and Briere on separate units. Our top unit is moving the puck very well and very quickly. Forsberg will slow the pace and be able to set up Lupul and Carter.

Someone will definitely have to move to wing, but it won't be Richards. I still think it should be Carter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kz View Post
Gagne - Briere - Upshall
Forsberg - Carter - Knuble
Hartnell - Richards - Lupul
Eager - Dowd - Kapanen

Umberger/Cote

I know Umberger has played great hockey so far, but so has Dowd, who is cheaper and still fits the 4th line role better. I wouldn't regret trading Umberger when Forsberg returns, as we will need space next season for Downie/Giroux anyway.
I agree about moving Umberger and also like those lines.

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10-23-2007, 10:50 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kz View Post
Gagne - Briere - Upshall
Forsberg - Carter - Knuble
Hartnell - Richards - Lupul
Eager - Dowd - Kapanen

Umberger/Cote

I know Umberger has played great hockey so far, but so has Dowd, who is cheaper and still fits the 4th line role better. I wouldn't regret trading Umberger when Forsberg returns, as we will need space next season for Downie/Giroux anyway.
The price doesn't make a difference. Umberger is still going to be on the roster.

edit: barring a trade of course. I meant he's not getting sent down.

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10-23-2007, 10:59 AM
  #69
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The price doesn't make a difference. Umberger is still going to be on the roster.
What do you mean the price doesn't make a difference? Are you saying that the 700+k we would free up wouldn't be useful down the stretch if we were to sign Peter?

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10-23-2007, 11:08 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kz View Post
What do you mean the price doesn't make a difference? Are you saying that the 700+k we would free up wouldn't be useful down the stretch if we were to sign Peter?
He'll be signed, and on the IR before a game's played.

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10-23-2007, 11:20 AM
  #71
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What do you mean the price doesn't make a difference? Are you saying that the 700+k we would free up wouldn't be useful down the stretch if we were to sign Peter?
We wouldn't free it up. Umberger will still be on the roster if he's the 13th forward as your lines indicated.

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