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All-Time Draft #8, Part IV

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Old
10-20-2007, 05:18 PM
  #251
MXD
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Dosn't seem like it! Would have like to pick before I go. Guess I'll have to send a list yet again!!!




Our birthdate is obviously the only similarity between Gino and I.

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10-20-2007, 05:19 PM
  #252
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Our birthdate is obviously the only similarity between Gino and I.
Yea, you could only dream for his appearance and his sex-appeal

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10-20-2007, 05:23 PM
  #253
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Yea, you could only dream for his appearance and his sex-appeal
And oral hygiene.

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10-20-2007, 05:33 PM
  #254
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I'm out of here in about 45 minutes, who can take a list?

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10-20-2007, 05:34 PM
  #255
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I'll be around.

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10-20-2007, 05:36 PM
  #256
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I'll be around.
done.

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Old
10-20-2007, 05:42 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
The Dallas Blackhawks are pleased to select a tantalizingly talented offensive defenceman, a former Stanley Cup champion and a first-team all-star in both the NHL and the Betty Ford League: D Sandis Ozolinsh.
Nice touch. We'll keep him away from Theo Fleury and Ed Belfour on road trips just as a precaution, but I'm thrilled to welcome Sandis "Ouzo" Ozolinsh to Dallas. Seven allstar games + a 1st team award is pretty decent in the whatever-round-we're-in-nowth round. Wasn't really physical but he had great size and is as good a PP point man as you can ask for. He was huge for Colorado in '96 as well as Anaheim in '03.

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10-20-2007, 06:17 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Frightened Inmate #2 View Post
Two-way excellence?
Him leading in takeaways is a symptom not proof of his defensive ability. Just WATCH the guy. His first goal this season he strips a defenseman of the puck and goes in alone and scores. His second goal is shorthanded. I have been a rabid Hossa fan since 1998-99. He is a complete player. He checks his man, hits NOT to be energetic or emotional, but with fast precise purpose to affect the play. He's as sublime as a Lehtinen or a Lidstrom though not as good of course, though not far behind! He is a rock on his skates like Forsberg, seriously. He protects the puck as well as anybody. He has great hockey sense and is positionally remarkable. If he wasn't so dang responsible-minded to make the smart play, if only he was more selfish, he'd be position to cater more individual honours.

He is a three-time third team all-star, according to votes displayed by HO. Being the third best right winger in recognition is fine with me because all stats and voting doesn't capture the greatness that is Marian Hossa. Yes, I'm a fan. I watch him play. And don't you dare criticize his playoff performances in Ottawa. He was one of two or three players on the Sens who played their heart out, made impressive plays even if they didn't pay off at the time. Look elsewhere for heartless floaters.

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10-20-2007, 06:43 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Him leading in takeaways is a symptom not proof of his defensive ability. Just WATCH the guy. His first goal this season he strips a defenseman of the puck and goes in alone and scores. His second goal is shorthanded. I have been a rabid Hossa fan since 1998-99. He is a complete player. He checks his man, hits NOT to be energetic or emotional, but with fast precise purpose to affect the play. He's as sublime as a Lehtinen or a Lidstrom though not as good of course, though not far behind! He is a rock on his skates like Forsberg, seriously. He protects the puck as well as anybody. He has great hockey sense and is positionally remarkable. If he wasn't so dang responsible-minded to make the smart play, if only he was more selfish, he'd be position to cater more individual honours.

He is a three-time third team all-star, according to votes displayed by HO. Being the third best right winger in recognition is fine with me because all stats and voting doesn't capture the greatness that is Marian Hossa. Yes, I'm a fan. I watch him play. And don't you dare criticize his playoff performances in Ottawa. He was one of two or three players on the Sens who played their heart out, made impressive plays even if they didn't pay off at the time. Look elsewhere for heartless floaters.
Giveaways/takeaways is one of several irrelevant stats introduced by the league in the late 90s. Never had any time for those stats. Never will. Essentially, they are statistical smoke. And I have no time to have smoke blown up my ass.

Third-team all-star? That's a new argument in the ATD draft.

I wouldn't pick Hossa in the main draft. He just hasn't been around long enough. Same reason I won't pick Thornton, Lecavalier, Crosby, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, etc. In 89 selections during nearly four ATD's, two are currently in the league: Rob Blake and Trevor Linden.

But Hossa is not one-dimensional. I'm not going to blow statistical smoke up anyone's ass with that statement. I'm making the statement based on watching him play. He is a dependable, reliable player in his own zone. He's not good enough to play on a checking/two-way line, but he isn't going to hurt you defensively. He takes care of his own zone. I wouldn't call him physical, regardless of your stats say. Nobody is intimidated or worried about Hossa's physical play. But he is far from the one-dimensional, soft player that scouts said he was when he was drafted.

I do have concerns about his ability to deliver in the clutch. He wasn't the main reason that those Ottawa teams failed, but his performances didn't inspire anyone to say "Ottawa lost, but wow, Hossa was terrific."

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Old
10-20-2007, 06:50 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
He just hasn't been around long enough.
over 8 NHL seasons... shall I list the already drafted players who have had shorter careers?

Quote:
But Hossa is not one-dimensional... He is a dependable, reliable player in his own zone. He's not good enough to play on a checking/two-way line
Huh? Second lines have been built around him because of his ability to go against the opposition's top line.

Quote:
I do have concerns about his ability to deliver in the clutch.
He hasn't put the team on his back and elevated his play enough to win a series, true. Though the two times his team has had playoff success he was a big part of it.

Quote:
He wasn't the main reason that those Ottawa teams failed, but his performances didn't inspire anyone to say "Ottawa lost, but wow, Hossa was terrific."
I was at several of those games, and yes, people were saying THAT!

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Old
10-20-2007, 07:07 PM
  #261
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I gotta say GBC that saying Hossa hasn't been around long enough is pretty ridiculous. You know what you're going to get. A guy who will deliver a bit better than a PPG, who is responsible in his own zone and while doing all that he has never elevated himself to true superstardom nor done enough to take any of his teams to the next level.

Essentially a terrific complimentary player.

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10-20-2007, 07:10 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
over 8 NHL seasons... shall I list the already drafted players who have had shorter careers?


Huh? Second lines have been built around him because of his ability to go against the opposition's top line.


He hasn't put the team on his back and elevated his play enough to win a series, true. Though the two times his team has had playoff success he was a big part of it.


I was at several of those games, and yes, people were saying THAT!
I don't care there are players who have been around less who were already picked. I wouldn't take the forwards who have been around less time than Hossa. I wouldn't take Heatley, Kovalchuk, Crosby or Ovechkin. There are too many great players from the past still out there to pick an active player for a scoring line who only played eight years, and only five at a top level. Especially up front. A goaltender or a defenceman, perhaps. But not a forward.

I said he's a good two-way player. But he's not good enough, in an all-time draft, to play on a strong two-way line. Atlanta and Ottawa might have built their two-way lines around him, that's not in all-time draft settings. In an all-time draft, I want guys like Provost, Larmer, Armstrong, Lehtinen Nystrom or Ellis for my two-way line RW spot. Hossa on a two-way line, playing against all-time greats night after night?

I don't know if I would call losing in the second round of the playoffs to Toronto a "playoff success." Not with the expectations that Ottawa was facing in 2002.

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Old
10-20-2007, 07:31 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frightened Inmate #2 View Post
Two-way excellence? On the Penalty Kill? Last year he averaged just over two minutes on the PK, which really is nothing to write home about and certainly offers little to nothing as proof of "two way excellence"
He played 21:40 minutes per game, 7th among all NHL forwards, playing for an inept Thrashers team that needed him to score 100 points for them to even make the playoffs. That is the only reason he played 2 minutes on the pk per game instead of 4 min.

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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
I wouldn't take the forwards who have been around less time than Hossa.... only played eight years
True, you are one of the few g.m.s with only long career forwards on your roster.

Doug Bentley-Max Bentley-Cam Neely
Dennis Hull-Buddy O'Connor-Dave Taylor

Doug Bentley and Buddy O'Connor have played less NHL games and scored less points than Hossa though of course played in a very different era and had those games stretched over more seasons. Just a funny fact.

Hossa finished as runner-up in calder voting and might have won it if he didn't play on a checking line for half the season after recovering from injury (has been healthy as a horse ever since).

In the end, Hossa's 80+ powerplay goals and 40+ game winners fits in very well in an all-time context as a depth pick.


Last edited by VanIslander: 10-20-2007 at 07:41 PM.
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Old
10-20-2007, 07:40 PM
  #264
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Winnipeg are disappointed that Tremblay is gone, but are pleased at the same time to be able to take this equaly stellar defensive player, who we will play as winger. One of the many Devils' to go down in history as better then average defensively, the Jets select John Madden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ma...8ice_hockey%29


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Old
10-20-2007, 07:42 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
He played 21:40 minutes per game, 7th among all NHL forwards, playing for an inept Thrashers team that needed him to score 100 points for them to even make the playoffs. That is the only reason he played 2 minutes on the pk per game instead of 4 min.


True, you are one of the few g.m.s with only long career forwards on your roster.

Doug Bentley-Max Bentley-Cam Neely
Dennis Hull-Buddy O'Connor-Dave Taylor

Doug Bentley and Buddy O'Connor have played less NHL games and scored less points than Hossa though of course played in a very different era and had those games stretched over more seasons. Just a funny fact.

Hossa finished as runner-up in calder voting and might have won it if he didn't play on a checking line for half the season after recovering from injury (has been healthy as a horse ever since).

In the end, Hossa's 80+ powerplay goals and 40+ game winners fits in very well in an all-time context as a depth pick.
Games played is an irrelevant argument. Bentley played more than half of his career at a time when the NHL played 50 games per season. And in the other seasons, he played 70 games. With the exception of two years, Bentley played in an NHL more defensive, and tougher, than anything Hossa has faced. He was a four-time all-star (three firsts and a second). I think there were 15-20 point-per-game seasons posted in the NHL from 1946-47 to 1953-54. Bentley had two of them.

O'Connor played five of his 10 seasons at a time when they played 50 games. And as documented before, he was never the same player after the accident the year following his Hart Trophy win.

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Old
10-20-2007, 07:44 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Winnipeg are disappointed that Tremblay is gone, but are pleased at the same time to be able to take this equaly stellar defensive winger. One of the many Devils' to go down in history as better then average defensively, the Jets select RW John Madden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ma...8ice_hockey%29
Right wing?

Maybe I just never watched enough of the Devils - sure ain't a fav team of mine - but I've never seen him play on the wing.

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10-20-2007, 07:44 PM
  #267
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I have Lapierre's pick. To the surprise of nobody, the Montreal Wanderers select LW Al Secord.

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10-20-2007, 07:45 PM
  #268
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Detroit selects C Ken Mosdell.

From EB:

With our 18th selection, the 485th overall pick, the Detroit Falcons are very please to anchor their offensive unit with yet again a WWII veteran: Center Kenny Mosdell



Quote:
Originally Posted by HHOF
The wiry center became known for his penalty-killing and defensive work. "They only let me play offense twice when Elmer Lach was hurt," Mosdell said of his role with the team. His solid play helped anchor Montreal for another Stanley Cup victory in 1953.

Mosdell's offensive game blossomed beginning in the 1953-54 season. He collected 100 points over the next two years, ending both years with career highs of 22 goals. In 1954 he was named to the league's First All-Star Team. He proved to be an apt selection as he briefly rallied the Habs in the Stanley Cup finals against Detroit after the Canadiens fell behind 3-1 in games. Mosdell scored the overtime winner in the fifth game, a 1-0 thriller at the Forum, and helped his squad force a seventh and deciding game.

Mosdell was named to the NHL's Second All-Star Team in 1955 and captured his third and final Stanley Cup title in 1956.

Stanley Cup (1946, 1953, 1956)
NHL First All-Star Team (1954)
NHL Second All-Star Team (1955)
Played in NHL All-Star Game (1951, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955)

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10-20-2007, 07:49 PM
  #269
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Right wing?

Maybe I just never watched enough of the Devils - sure ain't a fav team of mine - but I've never seen him play on the wing.
No...you're right, my mistake, I meant we're going to play him on the wing...gah. Yes, technically, he IS a center, but I believe he's pretty competant at playing winger.

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10-20-2007, 07:49 PM
  #270
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Games played is an irrelevant argument.
whoa, i smirked and stated it was just a funny fact... and remarked on how all your forwards have had long careers.... no argument there

80+ powerplay goals, 40+ game winners for Hossa are worthy career stats in an all-time context, THAT was the only argument I make from that post.

Anyways, Hossa will probably play with Hlinka, either on the fourth line or as skilled depth picks to cover for penalties (Shero's boys will have some) and injuries on a scoring line.

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10-20-2007, 07:49 PM
  #271
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Right wing?

Maybe I just never watched enough of the Devils - sure ain't a fav team of mine - but I've never seen him play on the wing.
He's been a center as long as I've known there was a 2nd John Madden, but his skills -- speed, tenacity, defensive awareness -- and his job requirements -- speed, tenacity, defensive awareness -- should translate just fine.

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10-20-2007, 07:51 PM
  #272
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He's been a center as long as I've known there was a 2nd John Madden, but his skills -- speed, tenacity, defensive awareness -- and his job requirements -- speed, tenacity, defensive awareness -- should translate just fine.
Yeah.

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10-20-2007, 07:55 PM
  #273
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With our 18th selection, the 485th overall pick, the Detroit Falcons are very please to anchor their offensive unit with yet again a WWII veteran: Center Kenny Mosdell
How competitive a playoff series will it need to be before marksmanship comes into play?

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10-20-2007, 07:55 PM
  #274
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He's been a center as long as I've known there was a 2nd John Madden, but his skills -- speed, tenacity, defensive awareness -- and his job requirements -- speed, tenacity, defensive awareness -- should translate just fine.
Remember what I said early in the draft? That you could get an excellent defensive centre late in the draft? Eagle and VCL just did that. Good picks, boys. Shocked that Madden is still out there, since the modern guys with a Selke Trophy tend to go earlier than they should. (Especially since Madden was so good for the Devils in 2000 and 2003). This is right about where he should be picked.

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10-20-2007, 07:58 PM
  #275
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any time you play a guy out of position, especially in an all-time context, you gotta expect question marks

Madden should still play well defensively but at a Selke level at right wing? Don't count on it

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