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Whats going on b/w the blue lines? WTF?

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10-22-2007, 02:14 PM
  #1
Whoot Whoot
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Whats going on b/w the blue lines? WTF?

I am such a NYR fan that I cannot watch other teams for more then 1 period so I don't know if this is going on around the league. Every game this year thus far it seems the Rangers are really struggling getting the transition from our 1/3rd to the opponent's net. Especially on the PP. I am not sure why Renney doesn't do something about this! I don't know if its just the way the league is now or this is the way every team plays the Rangers ("the trap"). Can't we DUMP the puck for once? i mean aside from the Checking line and Prucha/Shanny - NO ONE dumps the puck. Fundamentals people! How many times last game did Jagr skate into like 3 players and get the puck taken from him. This looks like poor coaching to me, very damn frustrating to watch a team of this talent struggle to get scoring opportunities. Especially with how well Henrik is playing (and most of the defense) behind us.

Ok vent over. Thank you.

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10-22-2007, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoot Whoot View Post
I am such a NYR fan that I cannot watch other teams for more then 1 period so I don't know if this is going on around the league. Every game this year thus far it seems the Rangers are really struggling getting the transition from our 1/3rd to the opponent's net. Especially on the PP. I am not sure why Renney doesn't do something about this! I don't know if its just the way the league is now or this is the way every team plays the Rangers ("the trap"). Can't we DUMP the puck for once? i mean aside from the Checking line and Prucha/Shanny - NO ONE dumps the puck. Fundamentals people! How many times last game did Jagr skate into like 3 players and get the puck taken from him. This looks like poor coaching to me, very damn frustrating to watch a team of this talent struggle to get scoring opportunities. Especially with how well Henrik is playing (and most of the defense) behind us.

Ok vent over. Thank you.
I have been yelling the same thing since the start of the season... dump the ****ing puck....

consistently a nice rush up the ice into the zone and a pass into 3 opposing players.... makes me nuts.. just dump the chase already.. we have a faster team with gomez and drury up front so why are we not doing this?!

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10-22-2007, 02:20 PM
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This isn't really new...they never did dump and chase last year either. At least, Jagr's line never did.

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10-22-2007, 02:21 PM
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I'm getting pretty frustrated at Gomez skating the puck through the neutral zone then trying to beat 3 guys at the blue line and getting the puck knocked away, especially on the power play

another thing that really bugs me is the fact that everybody feels like as soon as they hit the blueline they have to pass it to Jagr on the boards, who has two guys on him right away.....could we please stop deferring to Jagr so much?

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10-22-2007, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
This isn't really new...they never did dump and chase last year either. At least, Jagr's line never did.
that was fine since that line had chemistry and could make the nice passes.. right now we dont have that so i think we should use the one asset we do have right now, speed, to our advantage....

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10-22-2007, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
This isn't really new...they never did dump and chase last year either. At least, Jagr's line never did.
Things are different now without NY Lander - hate to say it.

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10-22-2007, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft Guru View Post
I'm getting pretty frustrated at Gomez skating the puck through the neutral zone then trying to beat 3 guys at the blue line and getting the puck knocked away, especially on the power play

another thing that really bugs me is the fact that everybody feels like as soon as they hit the blueline they have to pass it to Jagr on the boards, who has two guys on him right away.....could we please stop deferring to Jagr so much?
Agreed, and its even happening with Drury and Gomez and even Shanahan. Everything is FORCED.
On the PP 2 out of every 4 passes are forced into an area because the player in that area is Gomez, Jagr, Drury or Shanny. Even strength , those same 4 guys are getting passes in their skates, or insane cross ice passes that sometimes get through, sometimes picked off or muddled up.

The past 3 games I had to record because I wasnt at home to see them live, and believe me - i use the DVR to review breakouts, PP, PK etc... and i came to a conclusion - From their blue line out - I have no idea what game they were playing in Boston. I was dumbfounded. There was no semblance of play, no set idea or system because every shift was different. Half the time the Rangers were trying to recover from something they forced - amazingly they did most of the time but as a whole - whatever it was they were trying to accomplish is nowhere near anything remotely successful.

They need to get on the same page. Forget the numbers on the back. Forget whos lefty/righty a center or wing. They should just go out and practice as a group. Renney should start by giving every player a different color jersey. Practice for 20 minutes with those lines and then ask for the same result if Gomez was on a wing with Betts and Jagr at center. Better yet, they should put Lundqvist up front with Malik and Pock. Have Jagr play defense and put a soccer ball on the ice and give them mops instead of hockey sticks. They have to learn that no matter what is thrown out at them (or more importantly what they throw at themselves) its always the same job each individual has in that position.

They have to totally start from scratch and humble them into a system they all KNOW. Not try to know.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 10-22-2007 at 02:37 PM.
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10-22-2007, 02:29 PM
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Gomez doesn't play dump and chase. Neither does Jagr. Never have, and never will.

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10-22-2007, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft Guru View Post
I'm getting pretty frustrated at Gomez skating the puck through the neutral zone then trying to beat 3 guys at the blue line and getting the puck knocked away, especially on the power play

another thing that really bugs me is the fact that everybody feels like as soon as they hit the blueline they have to pass it to Jagr on the boards, who has two guys on him right away.....could we please stop deferring to Jagr so much?

Agree totally they have to stop passing to jagr

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10-22-2007, 02:36 PM
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Gomez doesn't play dump and chase. Neither does Jagr. Never have, and never will.
agreed, and there is the problem.

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10-22-2007, 02:39 PM
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agreed, and there is the problem.
well either we don't score, they learn, or they start practicing the flying v. Not getting anywhere with every team in the league trapping us.

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10-22-2007, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoot Whoot View Post
or they start practicing the flying v.


nice.

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10-22-2007, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevFan-RU- View Post
Gomez doesn't play dump and chase. Neither does Jagr. Never have, and never will.
they per say dont have to dump and chase.. thats for the Hossa's, Drury's and Straka's of the world to do.... they get to camp around the net, gain position once they have control in the zone and work from there...

and I do agree with you that they never have or will.. but once you start to lose a few and the few turns into bunches.. well that really shows you where your team is and how much control the coach has over the players on said team...

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10-22-2007, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staggarelli View Post
they per say dont have to dump and chase.. thats for the Hossa's, Drury's and Straka's of the world to do.... they get to camp around the net, gain position once they have control in the zone and work from there...

and I do agree with you that they never have or will.. but once you start to lose a few and the few turns into bunches.. well that really shows you where your team is and how much control the coach has over the players on said team...
They went through this last year. Especially against a certain divisional opponent.

"The Trap" is just something a team has to deal with. It's a valid and effective means of defense that every team plays.

But it's also very beatable these days using dump and chase, and lateral puck movement attacks when entering the zone. Both are effective means of beating the trap.

Gomez is one of the elite few "trap breakers" out there. But they can only be so effective. For example, Gomez has three options entering the zone:
1. Carry puck into corner and set up from there as forwards enter zone.

2. Carry puck in and take off-angle shot (which 80% of the time is an easy save, but the other 19% yields a rebound-scoring opportunity, and 1% yields to a goal)

3. Carry the puck in and drop it right after crossing the blue line while driving towards the net. The player which picks up the drop pass would then shoot the puck.

1 and 2 are very effective, but also self-defeating. You have one player taking on a lot players... and you can be very good, but all it takes is one poke-check or mistake and the puck is going the other way. 3 also works well... but depends on the trailer's accuracy on net.

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10-22-2007, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Whoot Whoot View Post
well either we don't score, they learn, or they start practicing the flying v. Not getting anywhere with every team in the league trapping us.
Ahhh, the flying V. How about Jagr tries the Knuckling puck shot.

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10-22-2007, 03:33 PM
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I think one of the problems with the Rangers this year is their passing, not only in between the blue lines but all over the ice. How many times have we seen bad passes where guys aren't even defended and they still screw up a pass?

I also think they need to pass quicker. In other words, know what you're going to do with the puck, BEFORE, you get it. It seems like everyone on the team receives a pass, strides or coasts a little bit and then decides to pass or skate some more. If they were faster with the puck, I think it would open up more scoring opportunities for them.

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10-22-2007, 04:13 PM
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All of these problems: trying to carry the puck past entire teams, deferring to Jagr at all times - haven't they been problems since '05? And haven't those problems been overcome each of the past two years?

The PP would be much more efficient if everybody looked elsewhere besides 68 every pass, but when 68 is scoring we won't mind so much.

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10-24-2007, 08:50 AM
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0 Goals in 2 games. THIS IS our problem right here! Fundamentals.
Coach renney PM me.

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10-24-2007, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoot Whoot View Post
I am such a NYR fan that I cannot watch other teams for more then 1 period so I don't know if this is going on around the league. Every game this year thus far it seems the Rangers are really struggling getting the transition from our 1/3rd to the opponent's net. Especially on the PP. I am not sure why Renney doesn't do something about this! I don't know if its just the way the league is now or this is the way every team plays the Rangers ("the trap"). Can't we DUMP the puck for once? i mean aside from the Checking line and Prucha/Shanny - NO ONE dumps the puck. Fundamentals people! How many times last game did Jagr skate into like 3 players and get the puck taken from him. This looks like poor coaching to me, very damn frustrating to watch a team of this talent struggle to get scoring opportunities. Especially with how well Henrik is playing (and most of the defense) behind us.

Ok vent over. Thank you.
Its pretty much what separates the good teams from the bad in this league right now.

How well you can get the puck from your end and establish pressure in the other end.

Anaheim had 2 really good centers in this aspect for example, Andy McDonald and Sami Påhlsson. Along with Scott Niedermayer of coures who is a great QB. Detroit got their fantastic puckmovement. Buffalo got a entire blueline who is good at moving the puck. Ottawa is maybe the exception, they aren't great at it, but they are the best in every other aspect that they still get by. But it was very obvious against Ana in the SCF's... Anaheim just managed to get momentum on a regular basis, while Ottawa had problems getting things gooing.

The reason for why we struggle with it is very obvious, we got 3 new centers. Our transition game is based on our LW leaving the zone early, pressureing the other teams D's back, and therfor opening up ice in the neutral zone for the center and the RW. Our center is supposed to go really deep in our end and transport the puck up, with the RW as support. Its somewhat of a unique role. Cullen struggled with it last season, he was much more used to getting the puck higher up ice and use his speed there, and had problems taking the puck against a collected D. Drury is really struggling with it this season, somewhat suprisingly. Dubinsky isn't exactly handling well either, ok at times maybe but far from good/great.

All this combined with that thoose 3 got zero chemistry with our blueline. Every hockey player is individual, how a D likes to pass the puck, where a center wants it passed etc. If Jagr circles deep in his own end, he never wants the puck before he turns up and faces the length of the ice. Its very obvious, he almost hides his stick when turning looking another direction, then when he is done turning and got his face up he looks for the puck. Gomez on the other hand wants the puck all the time, even when he got his back towards the ice, and have to turn in thight quaters with the puck, and he gets away with it. At first when I noticed it I got afraid that he would get run when he turned up with the puck, but he manage to handle it really well.

Take Tyutin for example, at this point of the season its not a reflex for him how the new guys wants the puck, instead he is force to figure it out on the ice. All that takes a extra second, slows us down, and leads to misstakes and misundestandings. Thats why we see a extreme amount of bad passes out there... At this point of the season I would like us to just have a ton of games, not so much practise inbetween every game. I would love to see 6 games in 9 nights or something.

I think we saw it between Tyutin and Cullen last season. At first Cullen looked as lost as Drury does this season. Then later in the season Tyutin and Cullen connected several times, where Tyutin held on to the puck, and managed to find Cullen with speed in the neutral zone. It lead to 2 goals by Cullen off the rush atleast, and to several good transition plays where they managed to establish pressure.

We will defenitly see improvement in this aspect during the course of the season, as long as we don't fall apart completly from the pressure before it...


Last edited by Ola: 10-24-2007 at 09:28 AM.
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10-24-2007, 09:46 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft Guru View Post
I'm getting pretty frustrated at Gomez skating the puck through the neutral zone then trying to beat 3 guys at the blue line and getting the puck knocked away, especially on the power play

another thing that really bugs me is the fact that everybody feels like as soon as they hit the blueline they have to pass it to Jagr on the boards, who has two guys on him right away.....could we please stop deferring to Jagr so much?
Gomez always did that... I think the real problem is that Gomez is just a little too fast for Jagr.. Gomez neeeds a sniper. Jagr is a sniper but he likes to hold on to the puck..

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