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Whats up with our Shots Allowed/Shots Taken ratio?

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Old
10-25-2007, 11:59 AM
  #1
chthonic
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Whats up with our Shots Allowed/Shots Taken ratio?

Some of these games we are getting throttled 15-2 or so in a single period and end up getting outshot 2:1. We're 26th in the league in shots taken, and 28th in the league in shots differential.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/sortableStatsTeam

marty is a great goalie, but can't hold down the fort getting outshot 2 to 1 every night. is this a problem with our system? or just an anomoly

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10-25-2007, 12:02 PM
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Jester
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our record is smoke and mirrors... that's what is up with our SOG v. SOGA ratio.

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10-25-2007, 12:05 PM
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possession possession possession

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10-25-2007, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
our record is smoke and mirrors... that's what is up with our SOG v. SOGA ratio.
Agreed. Say what you want about SOG as a statistic. In our case they are indicative of how we are playing. Which is to say like crap...

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11-05-2007, 08:33 PM
  #5
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this is getting ridiculous.
i can't understand whats going on.

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11-05-2007, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by chthonic View Post
this is getting ridiculous.
i can't understand whats going on.
Kimmo Timonen is the only defenseman capable of really moving the puck around with authority, and he's only on the ice for 20-23 minutes a night. All the other time is split between Braydon Coburn, and Randy Jones. Of course, it doesn't help when the best defensive defensemen on this roster are absolutely inept if they're not hitting something, or hurling their body in front of a shot.

I imagine things will improve as the Flyers phase out the aging veterans, and integrate the younger blue liners who have some semblance of what to do with the puck in the offensive zone.

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11-05-2007, 09:38 PM
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Our problems controlling play stem from our crappiness of getting the puck on our stick in our own zone (which happens quite often), then finding the right play (pass or chip out) and executing. When they **** this up the puck just goes right back to the opposition to have another attempt at a fore check. People rave about Randy Jones, but he looks like a complete imbecile with the puck deep in our own zone under pressure, as does Jason Smith.

Sadly, Fitzpatrick has probably been our best defensemen in terms of recognizing the right outlet play quickly and executing. I really think Coburn is improving as well but he's not there yet.

I've been calling for it all season, but tonight was a shining example of where Alex Picard would help immensely IMO. He's not the best defensemen at getting the puck from the opposition but when its on his stick he knows how to move it up ice. Parent can do it as well. Its radical but i would make a major change before its too late and get at least one of these guys into the lineup full time immediately.

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11-05-2007, 09:58 PM
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I agree. Bring up Picard asap.

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11-05-2007, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kz View Post
Our problems controlling play stem from our crappiness of getting the puck on our stick in our own zone (which happens quite often), then finding the right play (pass or chip out) and executing. When they **** this up the puck just goes right back to the opposition to have another attempt at a fore check. People rave about Randy Jones, but he looks like a complete imbecile with the puck deep in our own zone under pressure, as does Jason Smith.

Sadly, Fitzpatrick has probably been our best defensemen in terms of recognizing the right outlet play quickly and executing. I really think Coburn is improving as well but he's not there yet.

I've been calling for it all season, but tonight was a shining example of where Alex Picard would help immensely IMO. He's not the best defensemen at getting the puck from the opposition but when its on his stick he knows how to move it up ice. Parent can do it as well. Its radical but i would make a major change before its too late and get at least one of these guys into the lineup full time immediately.
The other important factor is that Parent and Picard can skate. Picard isn't a burner but he's better than Jones, Smith or Hatcher. Parent can fly. In a month when this team dips below .500 I hope we start to see more experimenting. I don't want to see stubborness. We all knew this wasn't going to be our year, I'd like to develop a team for the future, not wait for the aging and useless players to be weeded out in a few years.

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11-05-2007, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
The other important factor is that Parent and Picard can skate. Picard isn't a burner but he's better than Jones, Smith or Hatcher. Parent can fly. In a month when this team dips below .500 I hope we start to see more experimenting. I don't want to see stubborness. We all knew this wasn't going to be our year, I'd like to develop a team for the future, not wait for the aging and useless players to be weeded out in a few years.
I was really surprised at how well Rory seemed to move the play forward and pick good spots to pass. Or, perhaps, he is just much better than anyone else on the team not named Timonen.

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11-05-2007, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kz View Post
Our problems controlling play stem from our crappiness of getting the puck on our stick in our own zone (which happens quite often), then finding the right play (pass or chip out) and executing. When they **** this up the puck just goes right back to the opposition to have another attempt at a fore check. People rave about Randy Jones, but he looks like a complete imbecile with the puck deep in our own zone under pressure, as does Jason Smith.

Sadly, Fitzpatrick has probably been our best defensemen in terms of recognizing the right outlet play quickly and executing. I really think Coburn is improving as well but he's not there yet.

I've been calling for it all season, but tonight was a shining example of where Alex Picard would help immensely IMO. He's not the best defensemen at getting the puck from the opposition but when its on his stick he knows how to move it up ice. Parent can do it as well. Its radical but i would make a major change before its too late and get at least one of these guys into the lineup full time immediately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchell_neif View Post
I agree. Bring up Picard asap.
Picard is all fine and good, but you need to remember that he turns the puck over... a LOT. needs to improve in that area before you can start assuming he's going to really help a ton on getting the puck out of the zone.

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11-05-2007, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Picard is all fine and good, but you need to remember that he turns the puck over... a LOT. needs to improve in that area before you can start assuming he's going to really help a ton on getting the puck out of the zone.
So do all our defenseman not from Finland.

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11-06-2007, 12:11 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Picard is all fine and good, but you need to remember that he turns the puck over... a LOT. needs to improve in that area before you can start assuming he's going to really help a ton on getting the puck out of the zone.
Did you see Jones, Vote for Rory, and Smith tonight?

Picard, Jones, All-star, and Smith will all turn the puck over, but guess which one is most valuable to the future of the franchise and needs to start learning at the NHL level?

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11-06-2007, 12:21 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Did you see Jones, Vote for Rory, and Smith tonight?

Picard, Jones, All-star, and Smith will all turn the puck over, but guess which one is most valuable to the future of the franchise and needs to start learning at the NHL level?
See, I think it's important to learn a lot of those skills at the lower level... It's hard to learn to play the game aggressively with the puck when you're getting overwhelmed by the talent level each night. Therefore, tuning up on a lesser talent pool can better prepare a player to make the leap smoothly.

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11-06-2007, 05:33 AM
  #15
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really!

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Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
Kimmo Timonen is the only defenseman capable of really moving the puck around with authority, and he's only on the ice for 20-23 minutes a night. All the other time is split between Braydon Coburn, and Randy Jones. Of course, it doesn't help when the best defensive defensemen on this roster are absolutely inept if they're not hitting something, or hurling their body in front of a shot.

I imagine things will improve as the Flyers phase out the aging veterans, and integrate the younger blue liners who have some semblance of what to do with the puck in the offensive zone.
I told all of u gabronis that the d is awful. The team will not make the playoffs with these stiffs on d. I know Smith is a heart and soul player. Make me laugh . It all starts with the d. If the d cant make a good first pass. They just fire it up the boards. You are screwed.

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11-06-2007, 07:14 AM
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Yeah Rory actually looked good yesterday.

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11-06-2007, 07:51 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
See, I think it's important to learn a lot of those skills at the lower level... It's hard to learn to play the game aggressively with the puck when you're getting overwhelmed by the talent level each night. Therefore, tuning up on a lesser talent pool can better prepare a player to make the leap smoothly.
I totally agree with this. I would like to see the young'ns stay down with the Phantoms for a year to solidify their play. There is no point in rushing them. This year the Flyers will have to fight to even MAKE the playoffs, it's not like the team is expected to win the Stanley Cup. If this team is to win the Cup, I would say it would be in 3 to 4 years.

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11-06-2007, 08:16 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by panayiotis View Post
I told all of u gabronis that the d is awful. The team will not make the playoffs with these stiffs on d. I know Smith is a heart and soul player. Make me laugh . It all starts with the d. If the d cant make a good first pass. They just fire it up the boards. You are screwed.
Yeah, because teams never learn how to find each other on the ice to move the puck over the course of the season.

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11-06-2007, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
See, I think it's important to learn a lot of those skills at the lower level... It's hard to learn to play the game aggressively with the puck when you're getting overwhelmed by the talent level each night. Therefore, tuning up on a lesser talent pool can better prepare a player to make the leap smoothly.
I agree with you in certain situations, but not in this one. I mean, Picard definitely had his troubles last year, but he was playing for a team with no direction. He was on pace for 30 points last year and showed some flashes of becoming a good player. I definitely wouldn't call him overwhelmed and besides, he's already had a full season with the Phantoms.

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11-06-2007, 09:30 AM
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I agree they need to shake up the defensive pairings, and I also would like to see Picard up. Although the problem then becomes who to sit, as I think Rory has been one of the better dman lately (which is kinda sad). So then that leaves sitting Jones, who you know management won't as he has been putting up points. I have a feeling the 6 you see will remain until another injury hits or Hatcher is back, then Rory will go back to the pressbox. I think they need to move Smith back to the 3rd line. I love his play and all, but he is no longer a top line dman. Perhaps go with lines something like:

Timonen - Jones
Kukkonen - Rory
Smith - Coburn

It is a scary thought putting Jones on the top line, but just trying to mix up the turnover prone with a non-turnover prone. When Hatcher gets back, put him in Smith's spot and move Smith into Rory's spot. And then next year say goodbye to Jones/Hatcher and hello to Picard and Parent.

Or perhaps, and this may just be a wild and crazy idea, some coaching occurs and the team actually tries to fix this problem by changing their gameplan. But I suppose that is just too wacky to occur.

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11-06-2007, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by panayiotis View Post
I told all of u gabronis that the d is awful. The team will not make the playoffs with these stiffs on d. I know Smith is a heart and soul player. Make me laugh . It all starts with the d. If the d cant make a good first pass. They just fire it up the boards. You are screwed.
i'm not ready to throw the defense under the bus... as far too often it doesn't look like they have anything resembling a coherent breakout developing. it's not that these guys aren't capable of making the pass a lot of the time, it's that no one seems to be going to a spot to facilitate a pass... then you have situations like in a game the other night when Timonen skated the puck out of the zone and you didn't see a forward until he got to the far blueline.

it's far too simplistic to jump to the "ooh, defense sucks!" mantra. while they're certainly not going to be winning a NHL skills competition, they need to figure out some stuff at the system level, IMO.

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11-06-2007, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I agree with you in certain situations, but not in this one. I mean, Picard definitely had his troubles last year, but he was playing for a team with no direction. He was on pace for 30 points last year and showed some flashes of becoming a good player. I definitely wouldn't call him overwhelmed and besides, he's already had a full season with the Phantoms.
i like Picard a lot, but on the defensive side he was overwhelmed at times... he has some very good skills, but he needs to learn to protect the puck a lot better. i think he can pick that up quicker playing in the AHL for a year and allowing him to have a bit more time to see the play.

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11-06-2007, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
i like Picard a lot, but on the defensive side he was overwhelmed at times... he has some very good skills, but he needs to learn to protect the puck a lot better. i think he can pick that up quicker playing in the AHL for a year and allowing him to have a bit more time to see the play.
I understand what you are saying and the AHL is certainly an under-utilized tool (so many teams rush young players for no reason) but Picard really went through a baptism of fire last season. I wonder if a half season in the AHL would be enough for him to contribute consistently to the NHL club for the second half of the season. Let's face it, there is a good chance that injuries will force him to play at least 10 games in the NHL this year. So, hopefully he proves himself during those games. An offseason can make a huge difference in a player.

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11-06-2007, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
i like Picard a lot, but on the defensive side he was overwhelmed at times... he has some very good skills, but he needs to learn to protect the puck a lot better. i think he can pick that up quicker playing in the AHL for a year and allowing him to have a bit more time to see the play.
He's played in the AHL for nearly 100 games in his career and in the 05-06 season, he was +6 on a team that finished last in the division and on a team where nearly every player was a minus. I'm throwing out the stats because I haven't seen him play for the Phantoms too often, but that's a pretty decent stat. And he looked bad defensively at times, but you have to keep in mind that he was playing on a truly awful team who had a coach who was way out of his depth (no matter how bad we've been this year, it hasn't been as bad as last year).

I mean, he's already had his year in the AHL and he's been playing pro hockey for more than 2 years. At some point, you have to give him the NHL playing time and considering the defensive disaster that this team has been so far, I really don't see the harm in giving him his shot now.

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11-06-2007, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
our record is smoke and mirrors... that's what is up with our SOG v. SOGA ratio.
Not that I disagree with you Jester, but to play devil's advocate here, I cant even count how many times the Flyers over the years have severly outshot their opponent but lost the game......Could we possibly be putting more stock into this then necessary?

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