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NYI/CAL Proposal

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Old
01-12-2004, 09:08 AM
  #1
disles1
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NYI/CAL Proposal

To Cal--Oleg Kvasha
To Isles--D. Gauthier

Isles get tough dman they are looking for. Cal gets a young (25) player who is having good season 25pts in 41 games. He is fast and can play center or wing. Thoughts?

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01-12-2004, 09:22 AM
  #2
islerob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
To Cal--Oleg Kvasha
To Isles--D. Gauthier

Isles get tough dman they are looking for. Cal gets a young (25) player who is having good season 25pts in 41 games. He is fast and can play center or wing. Thoughts?

Last year I would have done this trade in a second...now I woudl hold Kvasha...he is showing those signs that made us trade for him...

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Old
01-12-2004, 09:50 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
To Cal--Oleg Kvasha
To Isles--D. Gauthier

Isles get tough dman they are looking for. Cal gets a young (25) player who is having good season 25pts in 41 games. He is fast and can play center or wing. Thoughts?

I suspect that Gauthier's trade value is quite a bit higher than Kvasha.

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Old
01-12-2004, 10:11 AM
  #4
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Not by very much though

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Old
01-12-2004, 01:11 PM
  #5
islandermaniac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I suspect that Gauthier's trade value is quite a bit higher than Kvasha.
don't know if i agree. gauthier ranks 6th among all flame d-men in minutes played (excluding montador). he ranks 7th in +/- among flame d-men as he is the only -. he also ranks 6th among all flames d-men in points with a whopping one goal and two assists in 39 games played. i mean, gauthier gets so much play on this site yet his own team has him slotted into the number 6 role. what gives? kvasha meanwhile makes less money and is on pace for a 50 point season. a player who makes under $1M and provides decent offence is usually more valuable than another team's 6th d-man. no?

having said all that, would i like him in an islander uniform to play the 5/6 role on d? absolutely. i just don't think those guys are worth young, cheap players who are producing. we should also be aware that kvasha is putting points on the board sans yashin so the argument, "he's nothing without yashin," holds no water. therefore, i say no deal. i'll take my chances that kvasha continues to come into his own rather than trade him for a last pairing d-man.

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Old
01-12-2004, 02:30 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
To Cal--Oleg Kvasha
To Isles--D. Gauthier

Isles get tough dman they are looking for. Cal gets a young (25) player who is having good season 25pts in 41 games. He is fast and can play center or wing. Thoughts?
Gauthier would be great,but he would be our 5th,6th d-man.Isles especially right now can ill afford to lose another top line forward with Yashin and Parrish out.Even when healthy I still wouldn't make the deal.

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Old
01-12-2004, 02:38 PM
  #7
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I am

big fan of Gauthier but have been able to watch him play recently. Ill definitely pass on this one.

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Old
01-12-2004, 02:49 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
big fan of Gauthier but have been able to watch him play recently. Ill definitely pass on this one.
As if Kvasha would fit under a Sutter system anyhow. The Flames wouldn't touch this with a ten foot poll, and yes that takes into account Kvasha's steady production so far this year. Darth is absolutely right that Gauthier is worth more, but more importantly, Kvasha is not a good fit in Calgary. If only Saprykin had Kvasha's size and Kvasha had Saprykin tenacity.

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01-12-2004, 02:56 PM
  #9
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Disagree

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
As if Kvasha would fit under a Sutter system anyhow. The Flames wouldn't touch this with a ten foot poll, and yes that takes into account Kvasha's steady production so far this year. Darth is absolutely right that Gauthier is worth more, but more importantly, Kvasha is not a good fit in Calgary. If only Saprykin had Kvasha's size and Kvasha had Saprykin tenacity.

good penalty killer, defensively responsible, great passer...Im not quite sure why he wouldnt fit..

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Old
01-12-2004, 04:11 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandermaniac
don't know if i agree. gauthier ranks 6th among all flame d-men in minutes played (excluding montador). he ranks 7th in +/- among flame d-men as he is the only -. he also ranks 6th among all flames d-men in points with a whopping one goal and two assists in 39 games played. i mean, gauthier gets so much play on this site yet his own team has him slotted into the number 6 role. what gives? kvasha meanwhile makes less money and is on pace for a 50 point season. a player who makes under $1M and provides decent offence is usually more valuable than another team's 6th d-man. no?

having said all that, would i like him in an islander uniform to play the 5/6 role on d? absolutely. i just don't think those guys are worth young, cheap players who are producing. we should also be aware that kvasha is putting points on the board sans yashin so the argument, "he's nothing without yashin," holds no water. therefore, i say no deal. i'll take my chances that kvasha continues to come into his own rather than trade him for a last pairing d-man.
First of all, Gauthier is the #5, not #6.

Gauthier is 5th amongst Flames defencemen because it's purely symbolic of the depth that Calgary owns on the blueline. His 'playing #6' role doesn't (or shouldn't) detract from his value in any way, shape or form. Calgary just owns a blueline that forces, not chooses, them to play Gauthier as #5.

As well, Gauthier is not one to provide offense - just solid crease-clearing, hitting, checking and sound defensive coverage. If any team expects him to contribute offensively, well, they might want to look elsewhere.

Gomez used to play often on New Jersey's 4th line. Does that make him worth the value of a 4th liner? Definently not. You're logic is flawed in that sense.

As a Flames fan, I'd do Kvasha for Gauthier, if I somehow knew that McAmmond wouldn't be returning next year (he is a UFA, afterall). Kvasha has the size and offensive touch the Flames could use, and with Commodore looking for NHL icetime and Phaneuf soon to be stepping in, Gauthier, like always, is likely to be the odd man out.

That said, is Kvasha a native of Western Canada?

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Old
01-12-2004, 04:27 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
good penalty killer, defensively responsible, great passer...Im not quite sure why he wouldnt fit..
You're kiddng right? Not questioning his offensive instincts, playmaking ability or soft hands -- but the guy stil has a long ways to go before he's a solid penalty killer and demonstrate better defensive awareness. Yes he's a plus player right now, but the guy still has some kinks in his defensive game to work out. I'd probably do Gauthier for Kvasha and a 3rd -- or something like that, but I am not convinced the Flames would.

That being said, Kvasha and Saprykin together would be insane.

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Old
01-12-2004, 04:55 PM
  #12
islandermaniac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
You're kiddng right? Not questioning his offensive instincts, playmaking ability or soft hands -- but the guy stil has a long ways to go before he's a solid penalty killer and demonstrate better defensive awareness. Yes he's a plus player right now, but the guy still has some kinks in his defensive game to work out. I'd probably do Gauthier for Kvasha and a 3rd -- or something like that, but I am not convinced the Flames would.

That being said, Kvasha and Saprykin together would be insane.
kvasha is one of the isles top four penalty killers...game in, game out. he, indeed, is a solid one.

in response to ice cream man: i guess what i was trying to say is if he is a #5/6 on the flames then he wouldn't be bumping any of the isles top four out of their spot. with that in mind, he would be a #5 on the island and, imo, you don't trade young, cheap and productive forwards for a #5.

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Old
01-13-2004, 12:06 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandermaniac
kvasha is one of the isles top four penalty killers...game in, game out. he, indeed, is a solid one.

in response to ice cream man: i guess what i was trying to say is if he is a #5/6 on the flames then he wouldn't be bumping any of the isles top four out of their spot. with that in mind, he would be a #5 on the island and, imo, you don't trade young, cheap and productive forwards for a #5.
He'll be #4 if these Hamrlik rumors have any meat to 'em.


Last edited by Ozy_Flame: 01-13-2004 at 12:07 PM. Reason: Forgot a word!
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Old
01-13-2004, 12:46 PM
  #14
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
He'll be #4 if these Hamrlik rumors have any meat to 'em.

First of all, that is a pretty big "if." I still don't think Hamrlik is getting traded anytime soon.

Second, I'm not all that sure Gauthier is more effective overall than Radnek Martinek. So, he could well wind up being the #5 - even if Hamrlik is traded.

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Old
01-13-2004, 12:52 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
First of all, that is a pretty big "if." I still don't think Hamrlik is getting traded anytime soon.

Second, I'm not all that sure Gauthier is more effective overall than Radnek Martinek. So, he could well wind up being the #5 - even if Hamrlik is traded.
I guess it depends if coachie values hard-hitting defensemen over a more offensively-talented one. But I'm not the judge of that one - you're probably the guy to ask..

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01-13-2004, 01:03 PM
  #16
kolanos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
I guess it depends if coachie values hard-hitting defensemen over a more offensively-talented one. But I'm not the judge of that one - you're probably the guy to ask..
Yeah, the Isles are just rolling in Gautheir-types on their top four.

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01-13-2004, 01:43 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
Yeah, the Isles are just rolling in Gautheir-types on their top four.
Gauthier would be a great pickup for the isles and he would be a welcome addition to our blueline. He is easily better than Martinek---Darth

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Old
01-13-2004, 02:29 PM
  #18
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
Yeah, the Isles are just rolling in Gautheir-types on their top four.

Not true. There are no Gauthier types in the Isles top four. Each of the Isles top four are dmen who can skate well, make good defensive reads, and can carry the puck. None of them are at all like Gauthier.

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Old
01-13-2004, 02:32 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
Gauthier would be a great pickup for the isles and he would be a welcome addition to our blueline. He is easily better than Martinek---Darth

We've never agreed about Gauthier. I simply don't think he is a very talented player. I like his game, but he is horrible with the puck, bad possitionally, and makes some boneheaded choices. I think he'd be a good number 5, but I'd go with Martinek in the top four before Gauthier. Gauthier is not good enough to play 20+ minutes a game.

I'd do the deal you posted, because I don't think very highly of Oleg Kvasha. But, I would not give up anything more signficant in return for a player that limited.

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01-13-2004, 02:54 PM
  #20
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Darth, that post was sarcasm. Kind of implied by use of the smirking smiley face. To elaborate, why would the Isles play Martinek over Gauthier (assuming they had both) when their top three (sans Hamrlik) provide similiar elements to what Martinek brings to the table (though better, obviously) and nothing like what Gauthier has to offer?

And Gauthier has successfully averaged 20 minutes a game with a +/- in plus terrirtory. So I think you're wrong there. You clearly don't think very highly of Gauthier, and you have a right to that opinion, but don't make claims that are not true. Yes he's not playing 20 minutes a game right now, but that's only due to the Flames depth on defense and nothing more. If averaging 19:85 last season isn't close enough to 20 minutes for you, then you really should look beyond a dislike of a player.

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01-13-2004, 03:01 PM
  #21
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
Darth, that post was sarcasm. Kind of implied by use of the smirking smiley face. To elaborate, why would the Isles play Martinek over Gauthier (assuming they had both) when their top three (sans Hamrlik) provide similiar elements to what Martinek brings to the table (though better, obviously) and nothing like what Gauthier has to offer?

And Gauthier has successfully averaged 20 minutes a game with a +/- in plus terrirtory. So I think you're wrong there. You clearly don't think very highly of Gauthier, and you have a right to that opinion, but don't make claims that are not true. Yes he's not playing 20 minutes a game right now, but that's only due to the Flames depth on defense and nothing more. If averaging 19:85 last season isn't close enough to 20 minutes for you, then you really should look beyond a dislike of a player.
Gauthier is not good enough to play 20+ minutes on a playoff bound team. He got minutes on Calgary, before Calgary developed depth. Right now, he is playing the position he should - #5.

The reason they'd play Martinek over Gauthier is that Martinek is simply a better overall dman. Yeah, the Isles lack hitters in the top four. But, that doesn't mean ANY physical dman would be welcome in the top four. We already have Cairns and he, like Gauthier, is not a top four guy despite his physical element. Gauithier is physical, but I still don't think he has the talent to be a top four guy on a playoff team.

I'm not saying I wouldn't want to have Gauthier. I think he'd be a good role player on the Isles. I just wouldn't be willing to give up a whole lot more than Kvasha to get him.

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Old
01-13-2004, 03:11 PM
  #22
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well

i have no interestin a guy who really can't stay that healthy.. misses about 15 games a year

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01-13-2004, 03:21 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
i have no interestin a guy who really can't stay that healthy.. misses about 15 games a year

That is another issue with Gauthier. Although, in fairness, physical guys like that are always going to be a little vulnerable to getting banged up.

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01-13-2004, 03:56 PM
  #24
kolanos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
i have no interestin a guy who really can't stay that healthy.. misses about 15 games a year
Better do something about your highest paid player then.

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01-13-2004, 04:02 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Gauthier is not good enough to play 20+ minutes on a playoff bound team. He got minutes on Calgary, before Calgary developed depth. Right now, he is playing the position he should - #5.
Oh, now there's a '+' sign infront of the 20! Well, Gauthier si good enough to average 15 seconds less than 20 minutes and pull off a +5 +/- on a bad team, but heaven forbid you should actually give him credit where it's due. And for your information the Flames have had defensive depth for years, where do you think the "fab four" came from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
The reason they'd play Martinek over Gauthier is that Martinek is simply a better overall dman. Yeah, the Isles lack hitters in the top four. But, that doesn't mean ANY physical dman would be welcome in the top four. We already have Cairns and he, like Gauthier, is not a top four guy despite his physical element. Gauithier is physical, but I still don't think he has the talent to be a top four guy on a playoff team.
Whatever you say. No way is Martinek better than Gauthier, and to compare Gauthier to Carins is rediculous. Gauthier is a better defenseman than you give him credit for -- he's not better than the Isles current top four, I agree there, but he's definately more proven and a more effective player than Martinek.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I'm not saying I wouldn't want to have Gauthier. I think he'd be a good role player on the Isles. I just wouldn't be willing to give up a whole lot more than Kvasha to get him.
I'm not saying the Isles would have to give up much more, but you then go on to suggest things that I just don't think are true about Gauthier.

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