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Luc Bourdon vs Marc Staal

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Old
10-29-2007, 11:51 PM
  #76
BigE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
Justin Pogge had a great WJC's does that mean he is the reincarnation of Patrick Roy? I would rather judge on their current success against MEN rather then boys. Basing players on their past junior experiences is a falliable argument and to really justify a prospects dominance is comparing thier statistics to the league they are determined to play in, which of course is the NHL.

To argue the strengths or weaknesses of a prospect is mainly on statistics which gives an indication of their on ice-play. Staal may have the trust of his coach and GM but this is a weak argument because coaches and GM's have different styles and business also interferes with the descision on whether a player stays up or not.

Bourdon simply has no room to develop in the NHL with the current core of defence the Canucks have and would burn a year off his contract if he was given the 7th spot at the salary of 1.35 million. It better for him to develop playing 25 minutes a game in the AHL and so far he has answered his critics on his abilities by playing what he is advertised as, a physical, offensive defenceman with above average skating.
All of this begs the question: why not just watch them play instead of inferring based upon stats that aren't perfectly correlated indicators of performance?

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10-30-2007, 06:54 AM
  #77
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All of this begs the question: why not just watch them play instead of inferring based upon stats that aren't perfectly correlated indicators of performance?
Because the only way for him to hold this arguement and get the point across that he is trying to make is to use stats that really don't correlate to anything.

Comparing success of one player playing in the AHL to that of another who is playing well in the NHL. Using an offensive Dman and comparing him to a 2 way guy....

But if he is willing to go away or just drop the arguement, I would be willing to say that Bourdon is the best d prospect in the NHL. (Not that it makes any difference in how they develop regardless).

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11-01-2007, 09:37 PM
  #78
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Staal got his first NHL point. an assist on a Drury goal..

he's awesome.. i think he's gonna be good..

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11-02-2007, 12:08 AM
  #79
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Staal got his first NHL point. an assist on a Drury goal..

he's awesome.. i think he's gonna be good..
yep, Marc Staal now has one NHL point compared to Luc Bourdon's zero. according to my calculations, that makes him statistically INFINITY times better than Bourdon.

so now the stats, as well as actual on-ice performance (which apparently is secondary), say he's better.

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11-02-2007, 12:18 AM
  #80
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Didn't Staal own Ovechkin on an awesome defensive play also? I thought I read that in the GDT (I didn't see the game).

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11-02-2007, 12:43 AM
  #81
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In my opnion, right now, Staal is better. In a couple of years, if Bourdon puts it all together, they could be tied, with Bourdon being Ed Jovanovski-lite (more offensive and physical) and Staal being more Ohlund-lite (more devensive and more poised).


Take note that I am a Canucks fan, so I could be a little optimistic for Bourdon.

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Old
11-02-2007, 03:55 AM
  #82
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With long term injuries to both Salo and Bieksa, we should start to see how Bourdon compares to Staal at the NHL level as soon as Saturday.

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Old
11-02-2007, 08:34 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
In my opnion, right now, Staal is better. In a couple of years, if Bourdon puts it all together, they could be tied, with Bourdon being Ed Jovanovski-lite (more offensive and physical) and Staal being more Ohlund-lite (more devensive and more poised).


Take note that I am a Canucks fan, so I could be a little optimistic for Bourdon.
Yeah, it's gonna take a couple of years for it to all shake out, but I will say one other thing. A lot of the great things Staal does aren't going to show up on the score sheet or in the highlights. His ability to take the puck away and make smart plays in the defensive zone are never going to catch the attention of people who just stat watch. We might see Bourdon make some great plays and overshadow Staal in that way, but Staal could still end up being the better defenseman of the two.

That's my preemptive strike

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Old
11-02-2007, 05:40 PM
  #84
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Bourdon got called up today

THIS THREAD JUST GOT INTERESTING

no offense to those who have posted in it up to this point.

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Old
11-02-2007, 06:58 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Bourdon got called up today

THIS THREAD JUST GOT INTERESTING

no offense to those who have posted in it up to this point.
Yep. Very true. This should provide some concrete debate fodder. Bourdon's likely to get a good, long look as well due to the Nucks' injury situation.

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Old
11-02-2007, 07:01 PM
  #86
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I've watched every Rangers game, and Staal has been our 3rd best defensive player on the blueline, after Tyutin and Girardi. Rozsival and Malik may be getting more minutes but that has more to do with their past and being veterans, not what their actual play has been so far this season, though it's only been 12 games. Staal has shown that he's capable of playing at the NHL right now, and the coaching staff have shown that they're not afraid to use Staal on the PK or late in games. (Look at the Rangers scores, been pretty much all close games.) Not to say Staal hasn't made his share of misakes, but he's getting better as the season progresses. Which is what you'd expect.

With that being said, until Staal, Lee, and Bourdon have played a few seasons in the NHL, it's hard to say who you'd rather have. I think it really depends on what kind of defenseman you're looking for....if I had to choose between the three if we reheld the draft again, I'd have to take Staal right now (Rangers fan choosing Staal, shocker I know). Who's to say the answer won't be different a couple years down the road? They were taken in the first 12 picks for a reason --they're all quite talented.

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11-02-2007, 07:04 PM
  #87
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Staal cause theres no helmet that fits on Bourdon's head right now

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Old
11-02-2007, 07:54 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Didn't Staal own Ovechkin on an awesome defensive play also? I thought I read that in the GDT (I didn't see the game).
That seems eerily familiar for some odd reason....

Ahh. This is why.


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Old
11-04-2007, 12:48 AM
  #89
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Bourdon's first game against the Avs:

13:57 of icetime and finished with a +1 rating.

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11-04-2007, 01:08 AM
  #90
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still want marc staal.....he had over 16 mins of ice time and played very well...

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11-04-2007, 01:21 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by windflare View Post
That seems eerily familiar for some odd reason....

Ahh. This is why.

I'm a Canucks fan, and I like Bourdon and think he'll be a fine NHLer, but I don't get why everyone always trumpets this play as some huge thing. The only reason Bourdon had to make that diving play is because he was out of position in the first place.

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11-04-2007, 01:26 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MW View Post
I'm a Canucks fan, and I like Bourdon and think he'll be a fine NHLer, but I don't get why everyone always trumpets this play as some huge thing. The only reason Bourdon had to make that diving play is because he was out of position in the first place.
Yeah, pretty much. Staal's positioning is world class while Bourdon lacks a lot in that department.

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11-04-2007, 01:28 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
still want marc staal.....he had over 16 mins of ice time and played very well...
22:31

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Old
11-04-2007, 01:40 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by MW View Post
I'm a Canucks fan, and I like Bourdon and think he'll be a fine NHLer, but I don't get why everyone always trumpets this play as some huge thing. The only reason Bourdon had to make that diving play is because he was out of position in the first place.
Trumpeting this play as a huge thing? I certainly hope you didn't get that from the post here, because the only reason I remembered it is because it was in a Staal vs. Bourdon debate, and a 'fine defensive play on Ovechkin' was mentioned.

As for Staal and Bourdon, I believe Staal to be better than Bourdon right now. That's my position. But with that said, the way some of the Ranger's fans have been acting lately with their players is rather amusing to see, what with the, ahem, man-love for Lundqvist and Staal and piling on everyone who doesn't agree.

But of course, the inevitable "OMG U GUYS DO TEH SAME WITH UR GUD PLAYAS TOO!!!!!!!!1111!!!" is coming for that.

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11-04-2007, 01:50 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windflare View Post
Trumpeting this play as a huge thing? I certainly hope you didn't get that from the post here, because the only reason I remembered it is because it was in a Staal vs. Bourdon debate, and a 'fine defensive play on Ovechkin' was mentioned.

As for Staal and Bourdon, I believe Staal to be better than Bourdon right now. That's my position. But with that said, the way some of the Ranger's fans have been acting lately with their players is rather amusing to see, what with the, ahem, man-love for Lundqvist and Staal and piling on everyone who doesn't agree.

But of course, the inevitable "OMG U GUYS DO TEH SAME WITH UR GUD PLAYAS TOO!!!!!!!!1111!!!" is coming for that.
It wasn't a "fine defensive play" so much as it was "a decent and desperate recovery for his own poor positioning," though.

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Old
11-04-2007, 01:52 AM
  #96
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Is this really being discussed? Staal is playing 15 minutes in the NHL a game and playing mistake free/solid hockey. Tonight he played 22 minutes of solid hockey, no mistakes, great rushes etc..

When Bourdon makes the NHL for good then please bring this up for a real discussion..

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11-04-2007, 01:03 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Is this really being discussed? Staal is playing 15 minutes in the NHL a game and playing mistake free/solid hockey. Tonight he played 22 minutes of solid hockey, no mistakes, great rushes etc..

When Bourdon makes the NHL for good then please bring this up for a real discussion..
What a stupid argument - not only because Bourdon pretty much just made the NHL - but also, just because Staal may be better then Bourdon now doesn't mean we cannot compare the two, unless of course, you only will make comparison of things that have happened in the past, which is completely asinine.

Your argument is also a poor one because it didn't take into consideration Vancouver's superior defense corps pre-injuries. Marc Staal wouldn't have made the Canucks blueline out of camp, just like Bourdon couldn't.

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Old
11-04-2007, 01:04 AM
  #98
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Bourdon up tonite. Got limited time and still showed some confusion in his defensive zone play. he did not look NHL ready IMO. but given his limited role did ok

Guy that should be talked about is Edler who was probably the best d-man on the ice tonite .

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11-04-2007, 01:38 AM
  #99
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Bourdon up tonite. Got limited time and still showed some confusion in his defensive zone play. he did not look NHL ready IMO. but given his limited role did ok

Guy that should be talked about is Edler who was probably the best d-man on the ice tonite .
22:04 of icetime, +1 and looked great at times.

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Old
11-04-2007, 01:42 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Is this really being discussed? Staal is playing 15 minutes in the NHL a game and playing mistake free/solid hockey. Tonight he played 22 minutes of solid hockey, no mistakes, great rushes etc..

When Bourdon makes the NHL for good then please bring this up for a real discussion..

can u just lock this thread? garbage thread from the very beggining.

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