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Luc Bourdon vs Marc Staal

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Old
11-05-2007, 08:39 PM
  #101
Levitate
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I don't know how Bourdon has been doing, but Staal has been awesome with the increased icetime he was given after Malik went down.

Another great game from him tonight. Solid all over the place on defense, showed his ability to rush the puck, got off some nice shots...he just has really stepped it up when called upon. I'd love to see him stay with Rozsival when Malik comes back

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Old
11-05-2007, 08:47 PM
  #102
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Staal was absolutely fantastic tonight. Just incredible.

And that play against Upshall was hysterical. Upshall came down on him FULL SPEED (and everyone knows Upshall can fly). He tried to take Staal out and Staal just stands there while Upshall flies into the boards face first.

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Old
11-05-2007, 08:53 PM
  #103
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The two aren't even remotely comparible.

Honestly, if you rate Staal a 10, Bourdon's at about.......3.

Things could very well even out right in the future, but right now, comparing Luc Bourdon to Marc Staal is like comparing Ilya Kovalchuk to Anson Carter.

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Old
11-06-2007, 09:13 AM
  #104
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I believe that over the past few games the evidence has supported that Staal has to be the more highly regarded defenseman, both now and for the future.

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11-06-2007, 02:44 PM
  #105
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I would rather have Marc Staal

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11-06-2007, 03:26 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Staal was absolutely fantastic tonight. Just incredible.

And that play against Upshall was hysterical. Upshall came down on him FULL SPEED (and everyone knows Upshall can fly). He tried to take Staal out and Staal just stands there while Upshall flies into the boards face first.
Staal has looked better and better every game... His increased confidence is extremely noticeable.

...but I guess even Patrick Coulombe is better than him because he has the same amount of NHl points in less games... remember statistics are a tool to use to evaluate a player

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Old
03-21-2008, 04:37 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Brule View Post
The two aren't even remotely comparible.

Honestly, if you rate Staal a 10, Bourdon's at about.......3.

Things could very well even out right in the future, but right now, comparing Luc Bourdon to Marc Staal is like comparing Ilya Kovalchuk to Anson Carter.
I think you should maybe watch Bourdon play before you make such ludicrous statements. Bourdon is a very good prospect. He has a +10 rating in 22 games for the Canucks this year. And he's also got as many goals in 22 games this year as Staal has in his 72 games.

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03-21-2008, 04:40 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
I think you should maybe watch Bourdon play before you make such ludicrous statements. Bourdon is a very good prospect. He has a +10 rating in 22 games for the Canucks this year. And he's also got as many goals in 22 games this year as Staal has in his 72 games.
so you don't realize comparing goals for a rookie d man is silly?

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Old
03-21-2008, 04:42 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Brule View Post
The two aren't even remotely comparible.

Honestly, if you rate Staal a 10, Bourdon's at about.......3.

Things could very well even out right in the future, but right now, comparing Luc Bourdon to Marc Staal is like comparing Ilya Kovalchuk to Anson Carter.
I think you should maybe watch Bourdon play before you make such ludicrous statements. Bourdon is a very good prospect. He has a +10 rating in 22 games for the Canucks this year. And he's also got as many goals in 22 games this year as Staal has in his 72 games. He's a great skater and has good size to along with his offensive skills. I'm not saying that he's developed as quickly as Staal, but he's a lot closer than people think. Don't forget, he's had a tough time cracking a deep defensive lineup in Vancouver compared to the suspect defensive lineup Staal had to crack in New York.

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Old
03-21-2008, 04:44 PM
  #110
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so you don't realize comparing goals for a rookie d man is silly?
That's just one aspect. The better comparison is Bourdon's +10 rating in 22 games vs Staal's +1 rating in 72 games.

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03-21-2008, 04:46 PM
  #111
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so you don't realize comparing goals for a rookie d man is silly?
But if you think comparing goals for D men is silly all together, then I guess you have no use for guys like Niklas Lidstrom, Phanuef, Markov, etc.

As for rookies. I guess Alex Edler useless too eh?

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03-21-2008, 04:59 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
That's just one aspect. The better comparison is Bourdon's +10 rating in 22 games vs Staal's +1 rating in 72 games.
so in other words...see if luc can be a plus player in 72 games in his first nhl season as a 20 y.o.

younger players usually hit a wall....

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03-21-2008, 05:00 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
But if you think comparing goals for D men is silly all together, then I guess you have no use for guys like Niklas Lidstrom, Phanuef, Markov, etc.

As for rookies. I guess Alex Edler useless too eh?
i never said d men all together...i said rookies

plus does luc get PP time in Vancouver?

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Old
03-21-2008, 05:07 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
That's just one aspect. The better comparison is Bourdon's +10 rating in 22 games vs Staal's +1 rating in 72 games.
How about Bourdons averaged only 9 minutes of ice time a game in March while Staal is almost at 20 minutes? Some games playing up to 24 minutes? Also which includes almost zero PP time.

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03-21-2008, 05:08 PM
  #115
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Staal without a doubt.

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03-21-2008, 05:10 PM
  #116
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How about Bourdons averaged only 9 minutes of ice time a game in March while Staal is almost at 20 minutes? Some games playing up to 24 minutes? Also which includes almost zero PP time.
bingo...bango.....winner!

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Old
03-21-2008, 05:19 PM
  #117
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bingo...bango.....winner!
Yeah bingo...lol. Bourdon doesn't have to compete ice time with AHL quality defensemen.

Go do some homework and see who Bourdon fights ice time with (Ohlund, Salo, Mitchell, Bieksa, Edler, etc), and compare that to Staal. (Strudwick, Malik, Tyutin, Girardi, etc...lol)

Besides, that's hardly an endorsement for Staal if he ony has 2 goals and 10 points and gets PP time. Even worse, what does that tell you about the Rangers?

You might want to ask yourself why the Rangers have to give a rookie defensemen that much ice time??

Bingo, bango, bongo!!! We have a winner....ding ding ding.


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Old
03-21-2008, 05:29 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
How about Bourdons averaged only 9 minutes of ice time a game in March while Staal is almost at 20 minutes? Some games playing up to 24 minutes? Also which includes almost zero PP time.
BTW. There's only been 4 or 5 games in March for Bourdon. Let's look at the entire season. Staal is averaging 18:49, not 20 minutes. And Bourdon is averaging 12:43, not 9 minutes.....The fact that Bourdon is averaging almost 13 minutes a game on a team stacked with defensemen, is a testament to his progression this year.


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Old
03-21-2008, 05:51 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
BTW. Staal is averaging 18:49, not 20 minutes. And Bourdon is averaging 12:43, not 9 minutes.....The fact that Bourdon is averaging almost 13 minutes a game on a team stacked with defensemen, is a testament to his progression this year.
I have watched every game Luc Bourdon has played this year and he still doesn't look like an NHL calibre defenseman. I would venture a guess he's still in Manitoba for the majority of next season.

Bourdon has all the physical tools to become a top 4 guy but he needs more experience and confidence in his abilities if he wants to stick with the Canucks. When you're gauging a players effectiveness you look at ice-time. Bourdon hasn't earned the trust of his coach, subsequently he doesn't see much ice and has found himself behind defensive stalwarts Mike Weaver and Nathan McIver on the Canucks depth-chart.

Luc has progressed throughout the year but at a very moderate clip. Marc Staal is unquestionably the better player today and will be down the road.

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Old
03-21-2008, 05:56 PM
  #120
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Staal by a mile, and thats just not my homer opinion. Bourdon is a very good prospect, but Staal's ceiling as an impact defenseman is higher IMO. He is the best shut-down D-man the Rangers have on their roster....at 20 years old. Also, how could some of you call the Rangers a unit of AHL quality defenseman, when they are in the top 10 in the NHL for giving up the least goals?

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03-21-2008, 05:59 PM
  #121
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Staal is better right now. It doesn't matter how Staal got his minutes or cracked the lineup, all that matters is that Staal is indeed playing quite well with the minutes he is getting.


The Rangers are all excited about Staal much like all of Vancouver is excited about Edler, it's fun seeing a young guy come in, handle big minutes of ice time, and not look out of place at all. To top it off, Staal throws his body around more than Edler, so of course the Rangers have tons of reason to be excited about a young, stay at home defensive stud. We here in Vancouver rave all the time about Willie Mitchell, we should know what it's like to be in love with a defensive rock/potential defensive rock.


So yes, great for Luc, he has played much better this year (He broke bones in his ankle, and it was supposed to take two years for him to fully get over it, and voila, two years later, he finally starts playing better) but he still hasn't proven much. Hell, we don't even know Bourdon's offensive potential really since the Canucks never really unleash the reigns on him, so we never see him go all out for a hit or an offensive chance.


That being said, let's say both players reach their potential. Let's say Bourdon tops out being a Jovanovski type player, well, the Canucks need that type of player at the moment. Would it be nice to have a Staal in the lineup? Of course. Do the HF boards treat defensive d-men better than risky offensive d-men? Of course. (See countless Ohlund > Jovo arguments.) But depending on the lineup, a top potential Bourdon or Staal would be a welcome addition to any team, and I still have high high hopes for Bourdon's potential.


Anyways, so Staal is better right now, but I would have no problem ending up with a top potential Bourdon and would not be sitting around crying about not having a top potential Staal, should both players go on to have great careers. Bourdon, if anything, will hopefully deliver some excitement to Vancouver via huge hits, and good PP work, something that has been missing since Jovo left the d-corps.

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03-21-2008, 06:00 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
Yeah bingo...lol. Bourdon doesn't have to compete ice time with AHL quality defensemen.

Go do some homework and see who Bourdon fights ice time with (Ohlund, Salo, Mitchell, Bieksa, Edler, etc), and compare that to Staal. (Strudwick, Malik, Tyutin, Girardi, etc...lol)

Besides, that's hardly an endorsement for Staal if he ony has 2 goals and 10 points and gets PP time. Even worse, what does that tell you about the Rangers?

You might want to ask yourself why the Rangers have to give a rookie defensemen that much ice time??


Bingo, bango, bongo!!! We have a winner....ding ding ding.

Do you even know what type of defenseman Staal is?

From your comments I assume you don't.

And why does Staal get so much ice time? I'll let you figure that one out on your own. Or just tune into a Rangers game once and awhile and you'll figure it out.

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Old
03-21-2008, 06:10 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
BTW. Staal is averaging 18:49, not 20 minutes. And Bourdon is averaging 12:43, not 9 minutes.....The fact that Bourdon is averaging almost 13 minutes a game on a team stacked with defensemen, is a testament to his progression this year.
And the fact that Staal, while averaging just under 19 minutes per game - and quite a few times has played over 20 - has made the least amount of mistakes of any Ranger defenseman during the entire season, is a testament to his play.

Staal's smarts are at a level that Bourdon couldn't even dream of, right now, and Marc is only going to get better.

You want to talk about physical play? Ask Chris Campoli, Scottie Upshall, and Alexander Ovechkin what they think of Staal. The guy knows how to throw a tremendous hit, and won't go out of his way to do so like Bourdon does. That's a small part of what makes a smart defenseman.

I've got Center Ice, and I'm not going to sit here and bash Luc Bourdon, as I've seen a lot of potential from strong performances in the World Juniors, and I've seen him play at the NHL level. He's played well, but I'm sorry, Marc Staal is just on another level right now.

Will Luc be on that same level when he's played as many games? Maybe, could be. I still see a lot of flaws in his defensive game.

I'd like to see Staal get some power play time, Renney chooses not to use him, but guys like Tyutin, and Mara, who can't hit water if they fell out of a boat when it comes to getting their shots on net, and Straka at the point, when he never shoots the puck.

This argument should be in TBC status.

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Old
03-21-2008, 06:11 PM
  #124
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bingo...bango.....winner!
Bourdon does not get much pp time either, if at all.

Staal>Bourdon. No doubt.
But
the guy does have a point.
Bourdon is competing with guys like Ohlund, Mitchell, Salo, Edler (Anyone of these 4 players would be your #1 D-man, and would be on many teams)
Our team doesn't need defense. Bourdon would be a 5th or 6th defenseman playing decent minutes on some teams, but not when the Canucks are so defensively loaded (unless we're injured lol)
and offense does play a part in defenseman, even in rookies. It's a bonus.

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Old
03-21-2008, 06:18 PM
  #125
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I'm a Canuck fan, but I'm not going to kid myself.

At this point, Staal is the better defenseman, no doubt.

But Bourdon has made some strong strides in his development. He's more mature, makes better decisions with the puck, and has a great skill-set. If the Canucks wasn't so stacked with defensemen there is no doubt in my mind that he would be seeing 15-20 minutes per game.

As terms of potential..I have to say that Bourdon will probably put up better numbers, and both will be a key part of their respective teams.

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