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Michael Ryder, Power Forward?

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01-14-2004, 07:22 AM
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Michael Ryder, Power Forward?

This comes off the heels of Ed Olcyck (sp?) who stated that our favorite Newfie, is a Power Forward...now I never thought of him that way, he has an average bulid, 6"1 195lbs, but come to think of it, he plays huge, is hard to knock off the puck, great shot, he's not fast but he has a powerful stride, very solid along the boards, he dosen't rack up the PIM's but then again, you can't score from penalty box....Now for the older posters here, tell me if i'm wrong, but he kind of reminds me of John Tonelli, with a bit more skills, i'm only 22 yrs old, but I vaguely remember him playing and I say another poster state the same thing and I agree...Is he the coveted PF we've been waiting for? probably not, but you can't overlook the fact that he keeps getting better every game it seems...

P.S.-They should play the "low rider" song everytime he score at the Bell center.

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01-14-2004, 07:33 AM
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No, not even close.

There is always debate surrounding the definition of a powerforward. In my view a powerforward is a player who does the following (to simplify it):

-Threat to score 30-40 goals every year
-Can and will drop the gloves
-Plays a mean, vicious game

The only players that come close to fulfilling that criteria are Tkachuk, Bertuzzi, Thornton, Guerin, Iginla, possibly Shanahan and Nolan as well.

Ryder looks bigger than his size would indicate. He's not easy to handle and does control the puck well in traffic, and is strong along the boards. But he doesn't have a mean streak, and this is a key component to being a power forward. Nor does he drop the gloves, and he's far from a proven goal scorer.

At this point, he is what Montreal's needed: a thick bodied forward who goes to the net, wins battles along the boards, and is difficult for the opposition's defense to handle down low. But the Habs still need a top six forward that plays a mean game. This doesn't necessarily mean they need a power forward; someone like Mellanby or Roberts can fulfill the role as well.

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01-14-2004, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
No, not even close.

There is always debate surrounding the definition of a powerforward. In my view a powerforward is a player who does the following (to simplify it):

-Threat to score 30-40 goals every year
-Can and will drop the gloves
-Plays a mean, vicious game

The only players that come close to fulfilling that criteria are Tkachuk, Bertuzzi, Thornton, Guerin, Iginla, possibly Shanahan and Nolan as well.

Ryder looks bigger than his size would indicate. He's not easy to handle and does control the puck well in traffic, and is strong along the boards. But he doesn't have a mean streak, and this is a key component to being a power forward. Nor does he drop the gloves, and he's far from a proven goal scorer.

At this point, he is what Montreal's needed: a thick bodied forward who goes to the net, wins battles along the boards, and is difficult for the opposition's defense to handle down low. But the Habs still need a top six forward that plays a mean game. This doesn't necessarily mean they need a power forward; someone like Mellanby or Roberts can fulfill the role as well.

I know what you mean, but some people considered John Leclair a Power Forward in his prime, and he never fought or played with a mean streak, he just played big on the ice and commanded attention in the offensive zone, so your argument of what a Power Forward is, makes sense, but is not valid...

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01-14-2004, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
This comes off the heels of Ed Olcyck (sp?) who stated that our favorite Newfie, is a Power Forward...now I never thought of him that way, he has an average bulid, 6"1 195lbs, but come to think of it, he plays huge, is hard to knock off the puck, great shot, he's not fast but he has a powerful stride, very solid along the boards, he dosen't rack up the PIM's but then again, you can't score from penalty box....Now for the older posters here, tell me if i'm wrong, but he kind of reminds me of John Tonelli, with a bit more skills, i'm only 22 yrs old, but I vaguely remember him playing and I say another poster state the same thing and I agree...Is he the coveted PF we've been waiting for? probably not, but you can't overlook the fact that he keeps getting better every game it seems...

P.S.-They should play the "low rider" song everytime he score at the Bell center.

I'd refer to him as a solid hockey player, end of story! He's no superstar, yet he's very skilled, works hard and most importantly he produces. Let's not try and label a player....let that player be as long as he's playing well!

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01-14-2004, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
Is he the coveted PF we've been waiting for?
I've seen too many definitions of what a "Power Forward" is, so I have no idea how to answer your question with a yes/no.

I think what Ryder is missing to be a legit PF by most definitions is a mean streak and about 20 pounds...

His playing style is very PFish though.

I don't think we should label him. Let's just apreciate the fact that he's evolving into a damn good player.

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01-14-2004, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
I know what you mean, but some people considered John Leclair a Power Forward in his prime, and he never fought or played with a mean streak, he just played big on the ice and commanded attention in the offensive zone, so your argument of what a Power Forward is, makes sense, but is not valid...
It most certainly is valid. Just because people thought LeClair was a power forward doesn't mean my definition of power forward is not valid. There are many disagreements about what a power forward is; one's not more valid than another. It's opinion.

LeClair's a player that played a power game, and he scored his goals by driving the net and knocking over defensemen. While he wasn't the traditional power forward in playing a mean game, he was fearless in driving the net and his game was as physical as anyone's, as he -- along with Lindros -- was the most difficult player to handle around the net and down low.

He also has around 25lbs on Ryder, and a boatload of natural strength and thickness.

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01-14-2004, 07:57 AM
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No Michael Ryder is not a Power Forward but he is getting the confidence of a 30 - 40 goals scorer, the more he plays the more effective he is becoming it really helps him big time to play with Koivu its seems like he as a big potential unuse yet.

I really start to wonder what his limit are? 11 pts in the last 6 games.. gotta love that. more than Koivu or any other player on the team. and only 3 pts behind Mike Ribeiro for the 1st scorer on the habs.

Ryder is a shooter not a PF he know how to go to the slot without banging, he can take the puck from the corner and go to the slot without banging.. not a PF be a nice scorer yes.

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01-14-2004, 08:29 AM
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ok ok ok, hold on now. as much as i have been touting ryder for the last year or so, don't count you chickens before they hatch. he has only played less than 50 games in the nhl so i really commend him on his performance thus far, however, calling him a power foreward in the nhl at this stage is a bit early. but being 6'1 195 pounds he could very well get the lable some day, however he will have too develop a mean streak, because brendan morrow in dallas is labelled as a power foreward (at least on tsn.ca) and he is only 6'0 200 pounds.
i know they play a different game, but i was meerly using body size as a comparison.
i just hope everybody gives ryder a bit more time before they lable him the messiah, although he is saying and doing all the right things.

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01-14-2004, 08:31 AM
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All depends on your definition of 'power forward', I guess. It's one of those terms which doesn't have a real definition.

Personally, I could care less wether he is considered a power forward or not. It doesn't change the way he plays the game or help the team on the ice one bit, so....

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01-14-2004, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adammacisaac
ok ok ok, hold on now. as much as i have been touting ryder for the last year or so, don't count you chickens before they hatch. he has only played less than 50 games in the nhl so i really commend him on his performance thus far, however, calling him a power foreward in the nhl at this stage is a bit early. but being 6'1 195 pounds he could very well get the lable some day, however he will have too develop a mean streak, because brendan morrow in dallas is labelled as a power foreward (at least on tsn.ca) and he is only 6'0 200 pounds.
i know they play a different game, but i was meerly using body size as a comparison.
i just hope everybody gives ryder a bit more time before they lable him the messiah, although he is saying and doing all the right things.

Agreed, I love Ryder and I think he's gonna find a way to win that calder trophy and be a big part of the Habs future....but he's still a youngster and you never know what can happen... let's not act like Bruins fans who think Bergeron is the greatest thing since sliced bread and the best player in the 03 draft.

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01-14-2004, 08:34 AM
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I saw Tonelli play in his prime. I wouldn't say they are similiar players. Tonelli was much more of a physical presence. Ryder plays a chippy game at times but simply isn't physical enough (or big enough) to fit that category.

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01-14-2004, 08:49 AM
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Well, if you look at my original post, I never said that Michael Ryder is a Power Forward, all I said is that Ed Olcyck, in an interview stated that he was impressed by Ryder's play, and he said he was a PF, I never said that, but I agree that Ryder plays like one, he just dosen't have all the physical tools and the mean streak to be considered a true PF, but he does play with an edge...that's all I was saying

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01-14-2004, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
All depends on your definition of 'power forward', I guess. It's one of those terms which doesn't have a real definition.
Darz hit it on the nail here. I mean, you tell me the definition of a power forward and I'll tell you if he's included in the list.

The problem is that there should only be 1 power forward per team (if even that) and creating a definition that will limit it to this is rather difficult. Most people's definition of a power forward has it that there are only 10 teams in the league who even have one. Going with their definition of a power forward, I would say he's no where near being one.

And as Darz said, even if he isn't a power forward, he's a scoring forward with grit and if he keeps playing the way he is, I don't care what his label is.

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01-14-2004, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
No, not even close.

There is always debate surrounding the definition of a powerforward. In my view a powerforward is a player who does the following (to simplify it):

-Threat to score 30-40 goals every year
-Can and will drop the gloves
-Plays a mean, vicious game
I have never seen Todd Bertuzzi in a fight and he's probably the best powerforward of the league...

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01-14-2004, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big M1ke
I have never seen Todd Bertuzzi in a fight and he's probably the best powerforward of the league...
I listed Bertuzzi as fulfilling the criteria, and he has been in several fights. Heck, he was suspended for 10 games for jumping off the bench to fight Scott Parker in the past.

The thing with Bertuzzi is he's always prepared to fight, and gets in loads of individual battles, but few players want to face him. Example: Avery agitating him, then ducking for cover after Bertuzzi dropped the gloves. Or Jason Smith/Staios have gotten under his skin numerous times but they shy away from dropping the gloves with him (usually. I remember one or two fights Bertuzzi had with Staios).

Anyway, to put it simply: he does get in fights, and would be a more frequent fighter if opponents were as willing combatents as he is.

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01-14-2004, 09:12 AM
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Is he a power forward? No, but he's the closest to one we've got!

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01-14-2004, 12:52 PM
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Power Forward?

I personally doubt Ryder will be a power forward but he should be a gritty goal scorer. I mean like Eric Cole, Jamie Langenbrunner and Gary Roberts. Posters here worry to much about getting a power forward. The ones named in an early post how many have won the Cup in the last 5 years?? Probably none. Look at the Stanley Cup favs this year and how many of those teams have a power forward? Power forwards are overrated but nice to watch.

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01-14-2004, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big M1ke
I have never seen Todd Bertuzzi in a fight and he's probably the best powerforward of the league...
Huh? Bertuzzi used to scrap a lot. I'm surprised you haven't seen it.

Ryder is no power forward, in my opinion.

Regarding LeClair, does anyone else remember big John dropping the gloves against Buffalo in 92? He could throw them... it was quite a sight.

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01-14-2004, 01:34 PM
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I thought Rivet was our power forward?

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