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Possible trades??

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01-14-2004, 11:08 AM
  #1
swiftsure1786
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Possible trades??

At the deadline what do you think we should do? I do not want to mix up the chemistry and although many people want to trade perrault i think he can be very useful in the playoffs. What about someone like Dagenais...or Ward...i think those 2 should be our main chips to deal thouhg i cant see them attracting much interest. ANy realsitic people you think we can get??

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01-14-2004, 11:17 AM
  #2
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Guys like Perreault, Dackell, Hossa and Hainsey are all players that could be dealt.

Perreault wouldn't fetch us much more than a 3rd rounder and I'd be happy with future considerations in Dackell's case. As for Hainsey and Hossa they could be packaged to teams that were competing for a playoffs spot at the beginning of the season but find themselves out of contentions at the deadline in return of 27-30 years old guys that can help us into the playoffs (if we're are indeed there).

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01-14-2004, 11:20 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolution
Guys like Perreault, Dackell, Hossa and Hainsey are all players that could be dealt.

Perreault wouldn't fetch us much more than a 3rd rounder and I'd be happy with future considerations in Dackell's case. As for Hainsey and Hossa they could be packaged to teams that were competing for a playoffs spot at the beginning of the season but find themselves out of contentions at the deadline in return of 27-30 years old guys that can help us into the playoffs (if we're are indeed there).

I think BG would wait in the summer to trade young guys like Hossa rather then rush a deal at the deadline. He said he wants to give future considerations so that means draft picks depending on where we stand at the end of the year. We'd more likely get a player rather( a trade like a 4th a 6th for some soon to be UFA) then dump one unless a team like Nashville is looking at acquiring some depth like Quintal or Sundstrom. I just don't see us making anything big during the season.


But as you said, our partners will be out of playoff teams.

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01-14-2004, 11:21 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftsure1786
At the deadline what do you think we should do? I do not want to mix up the chemistry and although many people want to trade perrault i think he can be very useful in the playoffs. What about someone like Dagenais...or Ward...i think those 2 should be our main chips to deal thouhg i cant see them attracting much interest. ANy realsitic people you think we can get??
We won't get anyone good because we won't deal away prospects and draft pics.

We're still rebuilding!!!

If we're lucky we'll get picks for Perrault...

This year I'll be satisfied to see how far our current team can go...

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01-14-2004, 11:25 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by All-Star
We won't get anyone good because we won't deal away prospects and draft pics.

We're still rebuilding!!!

If we're lucky we'll get picks for Perrault...

This year I'll be satisfied to see how far our current team can go...

I don't agree, we still have two things we lack IMO, a rough center(although Begin could fill that) and a rough winger for one of the top 3 lines. These are nto things that are tough to acquire at all and they would greatly help our energy level and would fill needs that are vital for the playoffs. Personally, I wish we had Gilmour of 2001-2002 for the third line and a guy like Steve Thomas or Konowalchuck for the third line also. I think we should look at experience, grit and leadership from teams out of the playoff picture who are looking to dump UFA vets.

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01-14-2004, 11:33 AM
  #6
Bill McNeal
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If we're in a good position come deadline time, I'd trade a third or fourth rounder to a non-playoff team for a veteran with leadership. Preferably who's contract ends in the summer. Otherwise, don't give up our future for a short playoff run.

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01-14-2004, 11:42 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
I don't agree, we still have two things we lack IMO, a rough center(although Begin could fill that) and a rough winger for one of the top 3 lines. These are nto things that are tough to acquire at all and they would greatly help our energy level and would fill needs that are vital for the playoffs. Personally, I wish we had Gilmour of 2001-2002 for the third line and a guy like Steve Thomas or Konowalchuck for the third line also. I think we should look at experience, grit and leadership from teams out of the playoff picture who are looking to dump UFA vets.
I guess we just don't see things the same way at all. If we were to aquire vets for the playoffs, we'd end up sitting kids who desperately need playoff experience. This could hurt us down the road...

Considering the fact that I don't think we have that much of a chance of winning the cup, I'd rather let the kids gain experience in the playoffs instead of renting players, who don't even know Julien's system, for a few months. Chances are we'd go just as far...

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01-14-2004, 11:43 AM
  #8
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I've got a few examples of types of players from teams we might get:

Tyler Wright(this guy is a huge possibilitie and not a bad one)
Scott Young
Keith Carney
Laperriere
DiMaio
Maybe Derek Armstrong
Wes Walz a big possibilitie
Greg Johnson(who could be swapted for Perreault?)
Grant Marshall would definetly fit if NJ is willing to part ways
Mike Sillinger

Thats my list, personnally, a few of them sound pretty good, I have 4 in my mind I want more then the others though.

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01-14-2004, 11:45 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by All-Star
I guess we just don't see things the same way at all. If we were to aquire vets for the playoffs, we'd end up sitting kids who desperately need playoff experience. This could hurt us down the road...

Considering the fact that I don't think we have that much of a chance of winning the cup, I'd rather let the kids gain experience in the playoffs instead of renting players, who don't even know Julien's system, for a few months. Chances are we'd go just as far...

I want to know witch kids would be benched. The way I see it, if some players we're to go for the guys I had in mind, it would obviously be our dead weight mixed with future considerations. That doesn't sound like much, but teams out of the picture would be willing to take those guys for a few months if they can get their hands on a pick.

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01-14-2004, 11:53 AM
  #10
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Laperierre would be the ideal acquisition.

The Trading Checklist

- Does the player fill a need? Yes.
- Is the cost for the player overly expensive? No.
- Is age a factor? No.
- Is there any long term contract situation involved? No.
- Would the player be happy here? Yes.
- Are we losing a player off of our roster? Possibly.


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01-14-2004, 12:00 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jl.roberts
Lapierre would be the ideal acquisition.

The Trading Checklist

- Does the player fill a need? Yes.
- Is the cost for the player overly expensive? No.
- Is age a factor? No.
- Is there any long term contract situation involved? No.
- Would the player be happy here? Yes.
- Are we losing a player off of our roster? Possibly.
Actually, all those players pretty much fill all those requirements. Scott Young is the only one that made me think twice before writing. He doesn't use his body that much and he's lost a lot of his skill with age. He'd be on the third line but I'm not convinced he can do a better job then Dackell. Grant Marshall or Tyler Wright would be more interesting.

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01-14-2004, 12:03 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
I've got a few examples of types of players from teams we might get:

Tyler Wright(this guy is a huge possibilitie and not a bad one)
Scott Young
Keith Carney
Laperriere
DiMaio
Maybe Derek Armstrong
Wes Walz a big possibilitie
Greg Johnson(who could be swapted for Perreault?)
Grant Marshall would definetly fit if NJ is willing to part ways
Mike Sillinger

Thats my list, personnally, a few of them sound pretty good, I have 4 in my mind I want more then the others though.
I don't think MIN will let Walz go... he's been a rock for them, and if they pull everything together at the right time, they could be very nasty in the playoffs again. Laperriere and dimaio look like possibilities though...

I wouldn't be surprised to see us pick up another d-man (Gauthier has been mentioned... and i think Rick Green could work wonders with Martin Skoula), but i think our forwards are entirely set, unless a GOOD offer for perrualt comes along... i don't think a 3rd rounder will do it, he's too valuable and BG is too smart to let such a great playoff comodity slip away for so little.

If you ran the team, would you trade a guy who can make the difference? Look at the habs series with carolina a few years back (before therrien blew up)... many of those game winners were DIRECTLY off the faceoff. Faceoffs may not be such a big deal in the regular season, but come Cup time every GM will be wishing he had that extra faceoff specialist just in case. Heck... ottawa gave up gleason for smolinski so that he could fill a spot on their 3rd/4th lines!

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01-14-2004, 12:08 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by habsfansam
I don't think MIN will let Walz go... he's been a rock for them, and if they pull everything together at the right time, they could be very nasty in the playoffs again. Laperriere and dimaio look like possibilities though...

I wouldn't be surprised to see us pick up another d-man (Gauthier has been mentioned... and i think Rick Green could work wonders with Martin Skoula), but i think our forwards are entirely set, unless a GOOD offer for perrualt comes along... i don't think a 3rd rounder will do it, he's too valuable and BG is too smart to let such a great playoff comodity slip away for so little.

If you ran the team, would you trade a guy who can make the difference? Look at the habs series with carolina a few years back (before therrien blew up)... many of those game winners were DIRECTLY off the faceoff. Faceoffs may not be such a big deal in the regular season, but come Cup time every GM will be wishing he had that extra faceoff specialist just in case. Heck... ottawa gave up gleason for smolinski so that he could fill a spot on their 3rd/4th lines!

Johnson can win faceoffs too and he's not a liability in his own end and he can actually play on the third or fourth line. He'd also add much more speed then Perreualt. Same thing for Mike Sillinger, the guy is also a right hand shot btw,

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01-14-2004, 12:24 PM
  #14
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I have a simple question for all of you.
If you believe the Habs don't have a good shot at the cup, why should we trade any future away for a playoff run?
If I am Gainey I'll just keep what I have. Unless there is a player available who can help this team down the road (not just for a hopeless playoff run).

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01-14-2004, 12:32 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by All-Star
Considering the fact that I don't think we have that much of a chance of winning the cup, I'd rather let the kids gain experience in the playoffs instead of renting players, who don't even know Julien's system, for a few months. Chances are we'd go just as far...
I agree with your view, but the Habs will look at it from a business perspective...picking up a few Vets (for cheap, who's salary have mostly been paid) could mean an extra home game or two in the play-offs which means millions in profits...that has more 'value' to the organization than a few games of experience for a couple of youngsters.

If the Habs do decide to pick someone experience up, I'd like to see Tyler Wright and Ian Laperierre...both could be had for cheap, and wouldn't be bad choices to try to resign during the sumer.

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01-14-2004, 12:36 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Dragon
I have a simple question for all of you.
If you believe the Habs don't have a good shot at the cup, why should we trade any future away for a playoff run?
If I am Gainey I'll just keep what I have. Unless there is a player available who can help this team down the road (not just for a hopeless playoff run).


I have a question for you, imagine yourself in this situation: Your close to making the playoffs for only a 2nd time in what, 7 years? You believe you have a great goaltender thats able to win a series by himself. You can't add a top 6 player without overpaying, but you can add a few players that can fill holes and not cost much, these holes can be the difference between winning and losing a series. You play a defense first system like many did last year and had success, you have a huge farm with great youngsters, in fact more then you need and they are all similar players. Winning a series gives you tons of revenue, gives you more fan support and respect around the league while also getting the players attention when they become UFAs. Now, you have the opportunity to trade a 3rd to 9th round pick and a depth player for a guy who fills a need, do you pull the trigger? or do you back out because you like that 2.3% probability that this player will make the NHL?

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01-14-2004, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Habsaku
Actually, all those players pretty much fill all those requirements. Scott Young is the only one that made me think twice before writing. He doesn't use his body that much and he's lost a lot of his skill with age. He'd be on the third line but I'm not convinced he can do a better job then Dackell. Grant Marshall or Tyler Wright would be more interesting.
What role would Wes Walz fill in Montreal?

I don't see any fit at all for Walz in the Canadiens roster.

For that matter, why would the Canadiens want Tyler Wright? Who's job does he take? Which center is he better than?

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01-14-2004, 12:45 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox
What role would Wes Walz fill in Montreal?

I don't see any fit at all for Walz in the Canadiens roster.

For that matter, why would the Canadiens want Tyler Wright? Who's job does he take? Which center is he better than?

Wes Walz is a right hand shot who would play on the third line. He's also a vet and a good example on the ice, he's got tremendous speed, something we clearly lack.

Tyler Wright can also play RW, he plays an energetic game, he's very good in his own end and he shows good leadship qualities. Bulis-Walz-Wright for example, would make a terrific third line.

You know, people we're saying the same thing about the Langdon-Begin pick ups.

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01-14-2004, 12:59 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Habsaku
I have a question for you, imagine yourself in this situation: Your close to making the playoffs for only a 2nd time in what, 7 years? You believe you have a great goaltender thats able to win a series by himself. You can't add a top 6 player without overpaying, but you can add a few players that can fill holes and not cost much, these holes can be the difference between winning and losing a series. You play a defense first system like many did last year and had success, you have a huge farm with great youngsters, in fact more then you need and they are all similar players. Winning a series gives you tons of revenue, gives you more fan support and respect around the league while also getting the players attention when they become UFAs. Now, you have the opportunity to trade a 3rd to 9th round pick and a depth player for a guy who fills a need, do you pull the trigger? or do you back out because you like that 2.3% probability that this player will make the NHL?
Well I believe if the Habs makes the playoff, they'll be underdog even in the first round. I do not believe adding a veteran or two is going to make us become the favourite. Add veteran or not, if upset is going to happen, it's going to happen.
I just don't see how we can get someone who is significantly better than what we have on the roster with a mid round pick. Afterall, we have more than enough 3rd or 4th liner.
If you can get a Stu Barnes for a 9th rounder, sure! But I believe it's going to cost much more than that.

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01-14-2004, 01:14 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Dragon
Well I believe if the Habs makes the playoff, they'll be underdog even in the first round. I do not believe adding a veteran or two is going to make us become the favourite. Add veteran or not, if upset is going to happen, it's going to happen.
I just don't see how we can get someone who is significantly better than what we have on the roster with a mid round pick. Afterall, we have more than enough 3rd or 4th liner.
If you can get a Stu Barnes for a 9th rounder, sure! But I believe it's going to cost much more than that.

Why would adding any player make us contenders? My point is we have weaknesses, why not add a player or two to fill the needs we obviously have. Begin is a 4th or 3rd liner, yet you I don,t think anyone will deny he had a huge impact when he played. All the little things can make the difference in a series and thats why a Boston can become a Carolina.

Won't filling your holes give you better playoff success, and isn't this exactly the point of an organization, winning and not stuffing our faces with 20 year olds? Youth is great, but only when its needed. Our 3rd and 4th liners are far from having any sort of quality, Sundstrom, Dackell, Juneau and Perreualt are very close to the end of their careers, if they aren't there already, they don't bring anything we need and can't acquire easily, which I am suggesting.

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01-14-2004, 01:54 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Wes Walz is a right hand shot who would play on the third line. He's also a vet and a good example on the ice, he's got tremendous speed, something we clearly lack.

Tyler Wright can also play RW, he plays an energetic game, he's very good in his own end and he shows good leadship qualities. Bulis-Walz-Wright for example, would make a terrific third line.

You know, people we're saying the same thing about the Langdon-Begin pick ups.
I completely agree Habsaku, I've thought of Walz a few times as a great addition in replacement of Juneau, but Wright I never even thought of, he's a good choice too, but I wouldnt give up too much to get him.

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01-15-2004, 07:48 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Habsaku
I want to know witch kids would be benched. The way I see it, if some players we're to go for the guys I had in mind, it would obviously be our dead weight mixed with future considerations. That doesn't sound like much, but teams out of the picture would be willing to take those guys for a few months if they can get their hands on a pick.
Let's look at the forwards.

Bulis Koivu Ryder -- Good two way line.

Zednik Ribeiro Dagenais -- Two good snipers with a good playmaker. This line would be expensive to upgrade. UFA or not, good scoring line players are expensive.

Sundstrom Juneau Dackell -- Experienced shutdown line they are good at what they do, plus they know the system well. If one of them gets down move Begin up and put Kilger in his place.

Langdon Begin Ward -- This line can grind with the best of them (no need to upgrade).

Sitting as it stands now:

Pleckanec
Kilger
Gratton

Where would you put a new guy? Would you sit him? Perrault can probably get us a 3rd or 4th rounder. Would you sacrifice that for a pending UFA you would end-up sitting? Remember a new guy wouldn't even know Julien's system, so he would probably make mistakes until he got the hang of it. He might never get the hang of it (Audette).

The players on the team who might sit if you were to get a good enough player for Perreault are Dags and Ward (kids who need experience). The other players all bring something to the table that would be expensive to upgrade from a rebuilding team's point of view.

Unless you can get a good 3rd line centre (better than Juneau) for Perreault and Juneau, there is no real point in trading anyone. Plus trades sometimes have negative affects on chemistry, morale, and team spirit. That's why most trades happen during the summer.

We have plenty of players in Hamilton who could fill holes if we have many injuries.

It's just not worth it this year. The team just isn't ready to contend yet.

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01-15-2004, 08:54 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by All-Star
Let's look at the forwards.

Bulis Koivu Ryder -- Good two way line.

Zednik Ribeiro Dagenais -- Two good snipers with a good playmaker. This line would be expensive to upgrade. UFA or not, good scoring line players are expensive.

Sundstrom Juneau Dackell -- Experienced shutdown line they are good at what they do, plus they know the system well. If one of them gets down move Begin up and put Kilger in his place.

Langdon Begin Ward -- This line can grind with the best of them (no need to upgrade).

Sitting as it stands now:

Pleckanec
Kilger
Gratton

Where would you put a new guy? Would you sit him? Perrault can probably get us a 3rd or 4th rounder. Would you sacrifice that for a pending UFA you would end-up sitting? Remember a new guy wouldn't even know Julien's system, so he would probably make mistakes until he got the hang of it. He might never get the hang of it (Audette).

The players on the team who might sit if you were to get a good enough player for Perreault are Dags and Ward (kids who need experience). The other players all bring something to the table that would be expensive to upgrade from a rebuilding team's point of view.

Unless you can get a good 3rd line centre (better than Juneau) for Perreault and Juneau, there is no real point in trading anyone. Plus trades sometimes have negative affects on chemistry, morale, and team spirit. That's why most trades happen during the summer.

We have plenty of players in Hamilton who could fill holes if we have many injuries.

It's just not worth it this year. The team just isn't ready to contend yet.

So your happy with having average or mediocre players? The guys I suggested would be 3rd liners, so only older players would be benched or traded with a pick(if BG pays remaining salary or something). That means guys like Sundstrom, Perreault, Juneau and Dackell, guys who have nothing more then other players. We have plenty of guys in Hamilton but none who can bring something this team doesn't already have, they are still too young to produce, never mind contribute in a playoff run. You can't tell me with a straight face you'd rather have Juneau, Perreault, Dackell or Sundstrom instead of players like Walz, Wright, Laperriere, Armstrong, Marshall or Dimaio. Guys who have as much leadership (or more), who have had success, who have grit and can play defense. They don,t cost much and they upgrade the team like Begin. Chemistry, Morale, Team spirit? You gotta be kidding me, this is called a hot streat, defeats will come I assure you, then people will want everyone's heads and we'll talk about the lack of a real lockerroom. Chemistry is good for the top 2 lines, and the 3rd if you actually have players that are above average grinders, which we are far from having. I'm surprised so many people defend our pathetic third line, watch some games, you'll see most teams have a shutdown line thats as good, if not much better(and cheaper) then ours.


Also, about the system, have you seen any difference with the way(the third line) they played for the last 3 years, aside from the fact they have been on the decline? 'Nuff said. Anyone who plays defense can play in Juliens system, Walz for example, is the perfect player, although I doubt MIN will want to trade him even though he's a UFA. Its funny how GMs like Lamoriello and Lacroix aren't affraid to destroy their precious chemistry and system play at the trade deadline yet it seems people are offended when I suggest that we do it with an average team. If your happy with our current squad, then your happy with a first round exit.


Last edited by Habsaku: 01-15-2004 at 09:01 AM.
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01-15-2004, 10:15 AM
  #24
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...
First of all, calm down, we're just having a discussion here... I haven't accused you of anything. Different opinions make these boards interesting.

Lamoriello & Lacroix both have teams that can contend for the cup. They only trade for the few pieces they need to take it all. Montreal on the other hand needs pieces on every line. They are not ready to compete with the top teams.

Ryder is a rookie,
Bulis isn't a first line winger,
Zednik and Dagenais are one dimentional players, although Zed is better than Dags...,
Ribeiro is soft, although he is getting better,
Juneau's back is going,
Ward is a rookie...

The only things this team has going for it at the moment are morale, chemistry, and a hot goaltender. Once those falter, the team will crash and burn. Adding one player or even two won't get this team to the second round if Theo goes cold. If Theo stays hot this team could do what Anaheim did last year, even without adding players.

As I've said in my previous post, if we can get an upgrade to Juneau for him and Perrault, I'm all for it, but I'm not willing to give prospects and picks. I think we'll resign Dackell next year, so I don't see him going anywhere.

You've said it yourself, teams will keep their players if they are that good. It's easier to sign a player who's on your roster until July.

Of course if the perfect deal comes along, I'm sure Gainey will listen, he's not stupid, but the problem is: neither are most of the other GMs.


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01-15-2004, 10:26 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
So your happy with having average or mediocre players? The guys I suggested would be 3rd liners, so only older players would be benched or traded with a pick(if BG pays remaining salary or something). That means guys like Sundstrom, Perreault, Juneau and Dackell, guys who have nothing more then other players. We have plenty of guys in Hamilton but none who can bring something this team doesn't already have, they are still too young to produce, never mind contribute in a playoff run. You can't tell me with a straight face you'd rather have Juneau, Perreault, Dackell or Sundstrom instead of players like Walz, Wright, Laperriere, Armstrong, Marshall or Dimaio.
I wouldn't put Perreault in the same category as Sundstrom, Juneau or Dackell... and it doesn't look like Julien does either.

We could use an upgrade on Perreault but I wouldn't pay too much for a minor upgrade.

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