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Lundqvist vs Brodeur & NJD

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Old
02-02-2008, 10:57 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
yep, not trying to prove anything. Ask SBOB, im semi obsessive about stuff, and i have a need to constantly update this thread. if i dont, my head might explode.
LOL, fair enough man.

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Old
03-20-2008, 01:35 AM
  #152
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updated:
Brodeur:432021242214131
Lundqvist: 222122211012011

And yes, i count empty netters.

Averages are as follows for the lazy people...

Brodeur: 2.13
Lundqvist: 1.33

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Old
03-20-2008, 01:45 AM
  #153
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Why would you count empty netters?

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Old
03-20-2008, 01:48 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post
Why would you count empty netters?
because im too lazy to go back and look through the other games to weed out all the empty netters

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Old
03-20-2008, 03:12 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
because im too lazy to go back and look through the other games to weed out all the empty netters
but I thought u were obsessive

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Old
03-20-2008, 03:20 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
but I thought u were obsessive
to update this thread...yes. to remove EN goals? no.

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Old
03-20-2008, 09:38 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by motime42 View Post
Or it proves that he can play at Brodeurs level and even better. But your debs fan so thats what I would expect you to say.
To be honest Lundqvist has not been the model of consistency. I do mean this objectivelly. He's my fantasy goalie, so the conflict I have with him wanting to win but the Rangers to lose, etc. I have watched a lot of his games this year, and he has look very average, very often.

I still think he's not a top-5 goalie yet. Many Ranger fans had him winning the Vezina this year, and he is nowhere in the running for that. Half the reason his stats are what they are, is cause of his play against the Devils. Take those stats out, I think his overalls are diminished.

Agreeing with Ronnie Bass, he has the Devils' number. He gets his consistency down, and he can be a top-5 goalie next year. He hasn't done it yet, though. He just looks unwordly against the Devlis

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Old
03-20-2008, 09:57 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
To be honest Lundqvist has not been the model of consistency. I do mean this objectivelly. He's my fantasy goalie, so the conflict I have with him wanting to win but the Rangers to lose, etc. I have watched a lot of his games this year, and he has look very average, very often.

I still think he's not a top-5 goalie yet. Many Ranger fans had him winning the Vezina this year, and he is nowhere in the running for that. Half the reason his stats are what they are, is cause of his play against the Devils. Take those stats out, I think his overalls are diminished.

Agreeing with Ronnie Bass, he has the Devils' number. He gets his consistency down, and he can be a top-5 goalie next year. He hasn't done it yet, though. He just looks unwordly against the Devlis
I have to say that I agree fully out.

Hank's my favorite goalie for several reasons and I love seeing him becoming a top goalie in the NHL.

When he is on top of his game he already is a top-5 goalie, but even I have to admit that he's been testing our faith for periods during all three years.

At the same time he has got 30+ wins for his first 3 seasons, he's got 100 wins in 187 games.

So one can understand that both Rangers and Hank faithfuls tend to get a bit excited about him.

When it comes to Hank vs Marty I think we should also consider the possibility that it is the Rangers that have the Devil's number, not just Hank that have Marty's.

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Old
03-20-2008, 10:21 AM
  #159
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Brodeur got his 100th win somewhere between his 184th & 231, so I think Lundqvist is on the right track .

Brodeur Stats:
93-94 - 47 27 - 47 27
94-95 - 40 19 - 87 46
95-96 - 77 34 - 164 80
96-97 - 67 37 - 231 117

So 100 - 80 = 20. 164 + 20 = 184 if he went 20 - 0 (which obviously he didn't) then he would have gotten it in 184 games. Since he had 37 wins in 67 games, he averaged a win once every 1.81 games. So in that case an average could be 36 games to 20 wins. So We can say that Brodeur didn't hit 100 wins until his 200th game.

Now of course we can say that Henrik was benefited by the shootout as he had 17 shootout wins before his 100th win whereas Brodeur had 39 ties in his first four seasons...

The point is that Henrik has hit his 100th win around the same time as one of the greatest to ever play. I think that bodes well for the guy.

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Old
03-20-2008, 10:28 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Staggarelli View Post
yea it would be nice but the players would get too worn out too quickly..

when it comes down to it i would rather have a shootout then have the game end in a tie... like rec soccer.. everybody wins rather have the shootout and let the chips fall where they may...
I actually enjoy the shootout in regular season play.

However, the thing that needs to be changed is the loss points.

There should ONLY be points awarded to the winning team. The losing team should get nothing.

If you want to make the shootout less important (points wise) then regulation and OT. Make regulation and OT wins = 2 points and SO win = 1 point. And loss no matter what frame of play should never be rewarded. loss = 0 points

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Old
03-20-2008, 11:14 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
Brodeur got his 100th win somewhere between his 184th & 231, so I think Lundqvist is on the right track .

Brodeur Stats:
93-94 - 47 27 - 47 27
94-95 - 40 19 - 87 46
95-96 - 77 34 - 164 80
96-97 - 67 37 - 231 117

So 100 - 80 = 20. 164 + 20 = 184 if he went 20 - 0 (which obviously he didn't) then he would have gotten it in 184 games. Since he had 37 wins in 67 games, he averaged a win once every 1.81 games. So in that case an average could be 36 games to 20 wins. So We can say that Brodeur didn't hit 100 wins until his 200th game.

Now of course we can say that Henrik was benefited by the shootout as he had 17 shootout wins before his 100th win whereas Brodeur had 39 ties in his first four seasons...

The point is that Henrik has hit his 100th win around the same time as one of the greatest to ever play. I think that bodes well for the guy.
That is the dumbest thing I have ever read, even though your conclusion is correct. Lundqvist will likely have a very good career. He becomes more consistent, plays his A-game 90% of the season, as opposed to 66% of the season, and he has a shot at being one of the greats.

To assume in his third year that he is a lock for a hall of fame resume, is dumb. Not saying you've done that, but some fans have. Broduer had a long, largely injury-free road of success. Lundqvist has a long way to go. Sure he can do it, but he's only in his third year. A lot can happen

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Old
03-20-2008, 11:16 AM
  #162
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And for the record. If you're going to count shootout wins towards Lundqvist's fastest to 100 wins in NYR history stat, then you have to count them in Brodeur's most wins in a season stat. Just be fair

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Old
03-20-2008, 11:22 AM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
That is the dumbest thing I have ever read
Well, that's not very nice. As you said I didn't crown him a hall of famer, I just said that he's on a similar path to Brodeur and that it's looking good for him. I provided stats to backup my assumption as well. I don't see how that's a "dumb" statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
And for the record. If you're going to count shootout wins towards Lundqvist's fastest to 100 wins in NYR history stat, then you have to count them in Brodeur's most wins in a season stat. Just be fair
I didn't even mention that, and although I have in the past, whatever. The only reason why I discredit that for Brodeur is because Devils fans make such a huge deal about it when the guy played more games than the person he beat out and had the aid of shootout wins. I personally don't care about the NYR record of fastest to 100 wins. The only thing I care about is the Cup. I care about Lundqvist doing well, sure, because when he's doing well our franchise is doing well. To see the guy get to 100 wins as quickly as he did means that he will probably have a great future ahead of him and that means good things for the Rangers organization which is what is most important to me. I pay money to see the New York Rangers, not Henrik Lundqvist. Lundqvist just happens to be apart of the team that I love and so I support him. However, I don't care much for personal records, I care more about team. Personal records are fun to be apart of, but after they're over and done with the only one who will really even care about it is the player.

Devils fans should be happy and proud that Brodeur was a huge/the biggest part of 3 cup wins, not that he had x wins and y shutouts. What does that matter to you? Sure you feel happy for the guy, but it's not like you personally did it.


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Old
03-20-2008, 11:37 AM
  #164
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It was just a dumb formula to base things off of. How about this, "he has 100 wins over his first 3 seasons. He's got a future ahead of him"

I was bringing up the shootout wins as a separate argument, irrelevant of mine directed towards you. It was my mistake for not making that more obvious.

The fact is, its part of the NHL now. So if those count as official wins, then his breaking the record should be left official. Sure, i can see the difference in what Parent did, and I know its a different playing field. Its the same thing how the Canadians have so many cups, but won a bunch when there were like 6 teams. Its a different playing field, but facts are facts.

Its the same fact I'll have to deal with, 20 years from now, some goalie owns the most wins in a career record. It was a different playing field, and Brodeur only played a portion of his career in the "shootout win" era... hence the goalie that beats him has an advantage, but in the end its just facts*.

This shootout win comment is not directed specifically towards you, prublue. Its actually way off topic. But i just wanted to make that point

*Probably shouldn't assume, he hasn't won that record yet. But you see my point

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03-20-2008, 11:42 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
It was just a dumb formula to base things off of. How about this, "he has 100 wins over his first 3 seasons. He's got a future ahead of him"
Well, I figure comparing him to one of the greatest goalies to ever play would be a good comparison, no? It's not like he doesn't measure up. He is actually quite on par even if you take out the shootout wins, he's at 83 which isn't quite there, but it's close. If it takes him another 35 games to do it he'll still be at 223 games.

It's not saying that he will be THAT good or anything, but to show a similar parallel to one of the greatest goalies ever is never a bad thing. The only difference between the two is that Lundqvist is 26 and Brodeur was 25 and had a ring. Sure that ring is huge but I'd like to think that Lundqvist has the potential to be one of the great goalies in the NHL.

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03-20-2008, 11:58 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
Well, I figure comparing him to one of the greatest goalies to ever play would be a good comparison, no? It's not like he doesn't measure up. He is actually quite on par even if you take out the shootout wins, he's at 83 which isn't quite there, but it's close. If it takes him another 35 games to do it he'll still be at 223 games.

It's not saying that he will be THAT good or anything, but to show a similar parallel to one of the greatest goalies ever is never a bad thing. The only difference between the two is that Lundqvist is 26 and Brodeur was 25 and had a ring. Sure that ring is huge but I'd like to think that Lundqvist has the potential to be one of the great goalies in the NHL.
It seems like I jumped on you, and you didn't expect it, and I took this to another level. My arguments were for the general consensus of this topic... not yours specifically. I see what you were getting at, i'm just feisty after last night

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03-20-2008, 12:03 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
It seems like I jumped on you, and you didn't expect it, and I took this to another level. My arguments were for the general consensus of this topic... not yours specifically. I see what you were getting at, i'm just feisty after last night
fair enough

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Old
03-20-2008, 12:03 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
It was just a dumb formula to base things off of. How about this, "he has 100 wins over his first 3 seasons. He's got a future ahead of him"

I was bringing up the shootout wins as a separate argument, irrelevant of mine directed towards you. It was my mistake for not making that more obvious.

The fact is, its part of the NHL now. So if those count as official wins, then his breaking the record should be left official. Sure, i can see the difference in what Parent did, and I know its a different playing field. Its the same thing how the Canadians have so many cups, but won a bunch when there were like 6 teams. Its a different playing field, but facts are facts.

Its the same fact I'll have to deal with, 20 years from now, some goalie owns the most wins in a career record. It was a different playing field, and Brodeur only played a portion of his career in the "shootout win" era... hence the goalie that beats him has an advantage, but in the end its just facts*.

This shootout win comment is not directed specifically towards you, prublue. Its actually way off topic. But i just wanted to make that point

*Probably shouldn't assume, he hasn't won that record yet. But you see my point

It's the same for Brodeur now though. Him and Roy hold/will hold many records because of the defense first game that they went through. They played during the clutch and grab era, the trap and all the other low scoring times. Who knows what records they would have (if any) if they played most of their careers in the 80's. Where pads weren't as big, and light and games were all offensive based and not defense first.

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Old
03-20-2008, 12:07 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
It's the same for Brodeur now though. Him and Roy hold/will hold many records because of the defense first game that they went through. They played during the clutch and grab era, the trap and all the other low scoring times. Who knows what records they would have (if any) if they played most of their careers in the 80's. Where pads weren't as big, and light and games were all offensive based and not defense first.
My point is this.... sure the playing field is not level, but in the end what goes down in the record book is all that matters. You can make arguments on either side of the spectrum, but it won't change anything. You have to accept whatever the rules are

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03-20-2008, 12:28 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER* View Post
Is that head to head vs Brodeur, or his record vs NJ?
Like there ever was another goalie?

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Old
03-20-2008, 12:30 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Ronnie Bass View Post
All this proves is Lundqvist has the Devils number right now, nothing more nothing less.
And that if you can neutralize the Borduer effect, you can neutralize the Devils.

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