HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

All-Time Draft #8, Part V

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-26-2008, 10:56 AM
  #426
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,317
vCash: 500
Well, I've never seen a centre play shutdown hockey like Carbonneau has in 30 years of watching hockey.

It's reallllly hard to compare with anecdotal evidence by those reminiscing about the good ol' days.

I'd love to watch some old era hockey games and make cross-era comparisons for myself.

What I know from having played hockey is: to play defensively excellent you have to make defensive decisions and the more offensive players tend to take risks that make two-way players rarely better than a penalty killing specialist in minimizing mistakes, winning turnover ratios, keeping the puck in safe areas. Play the man or the puck? finish the check or join the transition? cover the man along the boards or anticipate recovery and circle high. Countless decisions Guy made as a defensive-minded centre that a Sakic or Modano or Yzerman were less likely to make. Are the latter better players? hell ya! But not on the penalty kill, not in shadowing the opposition's top centre, not in protecting the lead.

VanIslander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2008, 05:41 PM
  #427
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
What I know from having played hockey is: to play defensively excellent you have to make defensive decisions and the more offensive players tend to take risks that make two-way players rarely better than a penalty killing specialist in minimizing mistakes, winning turnover ratios, keeping the puck in safe areas. Play the man or the puck? finish the check or join the transition? cover the man along the boards or anticipate recovery and circle high. Countless decisions Guy made as a defensive-minded centre that a Sakic or Modano or Yzerman were less likely to make. Are the latter better players? hell ya! But not on the penalty kill, not in shadowing the opposition's top centre, not in protecting the lead.
I'm curious what people who have watched Clarke play have to say. The way I see it, it is possible to play the midfield style. But there is something to be said for being the best at what you do. But, I would always want a Clarke, Schmidt, Fedorov, Keon or Nighbor before I want Carbo. After Nighbor or Keon go, I'm very down with taking Carbo.

__________________
Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Nalyd Psycho is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2008, 05:53 PM
  #428
God Bless Canada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bentley reunion
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny O View Post
I like when GBC said he expects to win the division. Did he do it?
I finished second in the regular season, and lost the playoff division final in OT to the guy who eventually won the whole thing.

I go into every draft expecting to win the championship. I'm selling my co-GM short, my coach short, and the 23 players on my team short, if I don't go into a series expecting to win.

God Bless Canada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2008, 07:28 PM
  #429
Hawkman
Moderator
Sharpshooter
 
Hawkman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Gainey fairs very well in 3-star voting. I'd take him in the 4th or 5th.
Okay, Mr Global Moderator. Let's see the link where you've ever taken him in the first 6 rounds. I picture you more as the kind of guy who would take Gretzky with the second overall pick. Where's the sticking tongue out icon when I need it?

Hawkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2008, 07:32 PM
  #430
Hawkman
Moderator
Sharpshooter
 
Hawkman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
I finished second in the regular season, and lost the playoff division final in OT to the guy who eventually won the whole thing. I go into every draft expecting to win the championship. I'm selling my co-GM short, my coach short, and the 23 players on my team short, if I don't go into a series expecting to win.
I like your confidence and you're the best writer. Don't worry about losing, I tried to bust Psycho's chops in a good natured way in the post after yours.

Hawkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2008, 07:37 PM
  #431
ck26
7,709 miles & runnin
 
ck26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coyotes Bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 6,924
vCash: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny O View Post
Okay, Mr Global Moderator. Let's see the link where you've ever taken him in the first 6 rounds. I picture you more as the kind of guy who would take Gretzky with the second overall pick. Where's the sticking tongue out icon when I need it?
Just because I would take Jean Beliveau 6th overall doesn't mean I've actually done it. We've only done 8 of these all-time drafts, and the first 4 or 5 were really wheels-off and random. Just because I've never been on the clock at 6 with Le Grand available doesn't mean I wouldn't do it.

I recall Murphy taking Gainey really high in ATD8 ... I'm one of the world's biggest Gainey fans, but even I wouldn't have taken him there. You have to be in the right position to take someone and you have to want to take them higher than anybody else. If you don't meet both criteria, you won't get your guy.

ck26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2008, 07:42 PM
  #432
ck26
7,709 miles & runnin
 
ck26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coyotes Bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 6,924
vCash: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I'm curious what people who have watched Clarke play have to say. The way I see it, it is possible to play the midfield style. But there is something to be said for being the best at what you do. But, I would always want a Clarke, Schmidt, Fedorov, Keon or Nighbor before I want Carbo. After Nighbor or Keon go, I'm very down with taking Carbo.
All those guys look to me like really good two-way 1/2 line centers, not dedicated checking-line guys. For winning faceoffs, defensive awareness, positional play and general-purpose grit, I'd take Carbonneau ahead of all those guys; the thing about drafting is opportunity costs. If you take Fedorov, you give up grit and toughness, you give up some awareness, but you get a TON of speed and goal scoring ability in return.

I took Carbonneau 120ish in this last draft and after seeing John Madden go 300+ slots later, I regretted it. Carbonneau's a lot better, but not 13 rounds better.

ck26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2008, 07:46 PM
  #433
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,317
vCash: 500
I still get warm fuzzies thinking about the all-time draft in which my centers were: 1st line Yzerman, 2nd line Messier, 3rd line Clarke, 4th line Carbonneau.

VanIslander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2008, 07:52 PM
  #434
Hawkman
Moderator
Sharpshooter
 
Hawkman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,518
vCash: 500
I watched Clarke play and he was great defensively and offensively, maybe better than Yzerman and Trottier. He was tough, fearless, and influential on his team and on the whole NHL. Would I personally take him before those 2? Not unless my Co-GM wanted to, because I don't like him, but I may not be as professional and objective as you guys are when it comes to drafting.

Hawkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2008, 07:54 PM
  #435
Hawkman
Moderator
Sharpshooter
 
Hawkman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
I still get warm fuzzies thinking about the all-time draft in which my centers were: 1st line Yzerman, 2nd line Messier, 3rd line Clarke, 4th line Carbonneau.
That's insane! How many teams were there? 4? Did you win the Cup?

Hawkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2008, 08:08 PM
  #436
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,317
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny O View Post
That's insane! How many teams were there? 4? Did you win the Cup?
15 teams in all-time draft #3. No playoffs back then.

VanIslander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2008, 01:50 AM
  #437
Hawkman
Moderator
Sharpshooter
 
Hawkman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,518
vCash: 500
Thank God, I've finished reading the Lineup Assassinations. I'm a quick reader, but I like to read them slow and think about what I'm reading. I may not be posting for awhile, because I need to read some new hockey books and research my draft list more.

Hawkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2008, 05:19 AM
  #438
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny O View Post
Okay, Mr Global Moderator. Let's see the link where you've ever taken him in the first 6 rounds. I picture you more as the kind of guy who would take Gretzky with the second overall pick. Where's the sticking tongue out icon when I need it?
I've only been in 2 drafts and he went 3rd round both times. I'm not taking a checking liner before I have a #1 d-man, Scoring line anchor and starting goalie, just ain't happening.

Plus, I've yet to not have a top 3 pick, so that skews things.

Nalyd Psycho is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2008, 07:17 PM
  #439
Hawkman
Moderator
Sharpshooter
 
Hawkman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,518
vCash: 500
Not Referring to MLD #8

Sometimes guys will second guess a pick and it seems silly for several reasons. 1. A guy may have the 19th pick, but actually pick 26th. 2. You may think a guy got picked 25 slots too early, but there's 28 teams so it's now or never. 3. He may be the best available at his position. 4. He may be a good 2 way player and bring offense and defense to the team. 5. You don't know what the team strategy it is. He may be a key, vital part of team chemistry and teamwork. 6. Why not wait until the draft is over for Lineup Assassination (what a positive title ) for a more serious analysis. Just my two cents. My 7 year old son WHO ROCKS! is adding the next icon. I would never presume to teach or lecture you guys.

Hawkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2008, 07:23 PM
  #440
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,317
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny O View Post
Why not wait until the draft is over for Lineup Assassination (what a positive title ) for a more serious analysis.
the line-up assassination thread was one g.m.'s idea and it worked well to provide indepth analysis AFTER the draft

DURING the draft we enjoy debating the relative merits of picks: sure we could provide more reasoning and less judgements but discussing players relative to other players is part of the fun and purpose of the thing

this is first and foremost about honouring the history of the game, not winning a mock playoffs

VanIslander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2008, 08:31 PM
  #441
Hawkman
Moderator
Sharpshooter
 
Hawkman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
1. The line-up assassination thread was one g.m.'s idea and it worked well to provide in depth analysis AFTER the draft.

2. DURING the draft we enjoy debating the relative merits of picks: sure we could provide more reasoning and less judgments but discussing players relative to other players is part of the fun and purpose of the thing.

3. This is first and foremost about honoring the history of the game, not winning a mock playoffs.
1. Agreed. (Don't ever try the Esposito, Hodge, Cashman line coached by Sinden though. It didn't go over too well with one GM. ) 2. Agreed 3. Agreed & nice point. I care about my Co-GM's happiness, but if I don't have one, and I and others feel my team is balanced and it loses it in the first round that's cool with me.

Hawkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.