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HELP:FOR high Salaries.

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Old
01-14-2004, 11:22 AM
  #1
Traitor8
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HELP:FOR high Salaries.

Hi guys,

I have to debate in class about the following subject:
Players salaries.

I am in real life against high salaries but in school, I have to be for high salaries.

So do any of you know like a website or something that says like how much does a team make per game when they make the playoffs or like how much jersey sold by this player so it pays back..

Like let's say Jose Theoodre gets 6 M....He sold over 5 M $ worth of shirts so it's worth it to pay him..bla bla bla..

Montreal makes about 1.4 M $ profit per playoff game...I need a site though for that type of stuff..

Can any of you help me?

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01-14-2004, 11:32 AM
  #2
LPHabsFan
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I dont know about the habs but if you looking for references, i know the kings aopend up the books to th public and some guys did a report on them. Im trying to find it but you might be able to start from there.

edit: the only problem with using them as an example is that theyve lost a LOT of money.

another edit: http://www.letsgokings.com/copyright.php thats the link to the summary of the findings. Hope it helps.


Last edited by LPHabsFan: 01-14-2004 at 11:36 AM.
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Old
01-14-2004, 11:49 AM
  #3
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Hey, I did a similar project for French class, but mine was on how salaries are too high for sports. If you want my powerpoint presentation, PM me your email and I'll send it.

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01-14-2004, 11:58 AM
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I did a report on the financial situation of Canadian teams for a speak & spell class at University a couple of years back and found that Forbes.com was a great place for info. Just go to the site and search NHL or NFL or whatever.

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2003/1208/094tab.html

The above link shows the net worth and revenue streams for all the NHL teams. This is what players salaries boil down to. The better players you have, the more games you win, the more people but tickets or watch the team on TV or buy merchandise.

Players are employees, and for your company to make lots of money you need quality employees working for you, not your competitor so you have to pay them lots of money to make money.

On a side note the figures I came up with for the Canadian teams were astounding. Canadian NHL team pump huge amounts of money into the economy through property taxes, players salaries tax, and spinoffs like restaurants, cabbies, etc

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01-14-2004, 01:48 PM
  #5
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If you want an interresting argument in favor of high salaries in sports, you could compare them to all the money made by artists like singers or actors. I know most of you may not agree with that but why should people who have talents in arts whether because they have a great voice or because they have an excellant hear for musical composition or because of their talent in movies should be paid more than those who are the best in their respective sports in the world. Jagr earned 75M$ in his career as of now while Celine Dion certainly earned over 250M$. I don't agree with all these high salaries but I have problems agreeing with those who complain only against the sports professionnals as overpaid human beings. That's just my opinion but I thought it could be useful for your work.

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Old
01-14-2004, 01:58 PM
  #6
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OK I will save you

If you take a economics class you know that people that work away from home get payed a lot more then other people. For example people that work on oil rigs get paid a lot more. So explain how people like Lindstrom want to raise his family in Sweden, but plays here in NA

Talk about skill level, say millions of people play hiockey around the world, these people are the best 1000 in the world. Surgeons are payed a lot because they are very skilled, and not many compare to the skill level of let's say Theodore

Talk about how dangerous it is. Miners get paid a lot of money cause they put there life at risk everytime they work. For hockey players, use Audette as an example, say something like "Have you ever heard of a office man severing his nerves and tendons in his arm at his desk" if you can bring in video, try and get those boards things cherry shoes so much on coaches corner.

Those are the big 3 things that should get you through this pretty well. Remember that you have to beleive it when you sell it, and realize not that you beleive that players deserve 25 mill a year contracts, but are entitled to 2-3, thats how i did it, i think they should be paid fairly well for what they do, but no outragous amount of money.

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01-14-2004, 02:12 PM
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You also might want to try arguing that high-salaries are indicative of each player's individual *worth*(as the NHLPA does) as determined by the arbitrary 'free-market.' That is, as "market forces" set each player's value, there is no minimum and no maximum amount of what they should be paid; thus, the term 'over-paid' becomes a subjective opinion, but not one that is reflective of actual value. If team A wants player X for $10 but team B is willing to pay $15, then player X is worth $15 dollars. There is no limit to this reasoning, but revenue for each team is not a guaranteed infinite quantity. That is, the "market" will also "correct" any anomalies in the actual value of each player. Thus, even if, after years of this type of bidding between teams, player X has an estimated value of $100, if no team in the league has more than $75 dollars to spend on player X, his value will come down (see the Perrault case for instance).

I think this is accurate, but I am not an economist - so anyone out there pleasr correct my errors. I hope this helps. BTW, we don't have to agree on this, but if it's foe a debate, it might be a worthwhile approach.

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01-14-2004, 04:51 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
You also might want to try arguing that high-salaries are indicative of each player's individual *worth*(as the NHLPA does) as determined by the arbitrary 'free-market.' That is, as "market forces" set each player's value, there is no minimum and no maximum amount of what they should be paid; thus, the term 'over-paid' becomes a subjective opinion, but not one that is reflective of actual value. If team A wants player X for $10 but team B is willing to pay $15, then player X is worth $15 dollars. There is no limit to this reasoning, but revenue for each team is not a guaranteed infinite quantity. That is, the "market" will also "correct" any anomalies in the actual value of each player. Thus, even if, after years of this type of bidding between teams, player X has an estimated value of $100, if no team in the league has more than $75 dollars to spend on player X, his value will come down (see the Perrault case for instance).

I think this is accurate, but I am not an economist - so anyone out there pleasr correct my errors. I hope this helps. BTW, we don't have to agree on this, but if it's foe a debate, it might be a worthwhile approach.
Well, the problem with the economic theory is that market when left by itself becomes ineffective, which is why there is reagulation, so you can't really talk about the market correcting itself. It might eventually, but to do so, it will need major changes that are drastic. But it's been shown by several studies that even though the market should correct itself it wouldn't. (I can't list the studies, but I remember that from economic class last year and last semester, as well as from O.B. )

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01-14-2004, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY_NiNe
Talk about skill level, say millions of people play hiockey around the world, these people are the best 1000 in the world. Surgeons are payed a lot because they are very skilled, and not many compare to the skill level of let's say Theodore.
The best (and probably the most relevant) reason amongst all. These players get paid a lot of money because they are the only ones that can compete at such a high level, win Stanley Cups and draw large attendances.

If an hospital is in need of a surgeon, there are a lot available rapidly (not these days, though). If you want Peter Forsberg on your team, there's only one; pay him accordingly to what his presence will bring back in revenues to the team.

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01-14-2004, 05:39 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootOut
If an hospital is in need of a surgeon, there are a lot available rapidly (not these days, though). If you want Peter Forsberg on your team, there's only one; pay him accordingly to what his presence will bring back in revenues to the team.
ShootOut, this is what I mean by "market forces" - it is because there is only one Peter Forsberg that his value will rise.

Jacklours, thanks for the bit about 'regulation' (above). I think that will be the next CBA. I agree, the "theory" is that the market will correct itself, but we all know that just doesn't happen in real life. That said, I still think Komi8 can use this and win his debate (just don't mention the regulation bit unless you get cornered and have to - if you bring it up in the debate and you opponent(s) is smart, that could cost you the debate )

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01-14-2004, 06:43 PM
  #11
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With Forsberg's salary, you can get a nice house or 11 Patrick Traverse, you decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
ShootOut, this is what I mean by "market forces" - it is because there is only one Peter Forsberg that his value will rise.
Indeed, and I'll admit that I had read the thread a little too fast.


-----------------------
However, in a desperate last-second attempt to defend myself, for I consider myself as a victim, as usual, I'm still bringing to your attention that you were insisting on the bidding wars between teams to sign a desired player, while my post is exclusively trying to underline the link between the small number of great players and the salaries that such a situation generate.

...

*I'm feeling like a political prisoner waiting for his judgement in the former Stalinian USSR, it's terrible...*

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01-14-2004, 06:50 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootOut
Indeed, and I'll admit that I had read the thread a little too fast.


-----------------------
However, in a desperate last-second attempt to defend myself, for I consider myself as a victim, as usual, I'm still bringing to your attention that you were insisting on the bidding wars between teams to sign a desired player, while my post is exclusively trying to underline the link between the small number of great players and the salaries that such a situation generate.

...

*I'm feeling like a political prisoner waiting for his judgement in the former Stalinian USSR, it's terrible...*
hehe that's funny. No, I totally see your point too and agree. I was just trying to make my point clear for Komisarek8 so he can win his debate. To be honest, I know little about "free market capitalism" other than what I wrote above and we can all see that it has led to these salaries which, IMO, are *almost always* unjustifiable. But, Komi8 has to win. I was kind of hoping there would be some economics majors here to bail me out. Oh well, together I think we have all given him some good ideas.

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Old
01-15-2004, 05:59 AM
  #13
ShootOut
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This title posting habit of mine is even more irritating with this new board format

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
hehe that's funny. No, I totally see your point too and agree. I was just trying to make my point clear for Komisarek8 so he can win his debate. To be honest, I know little about "free market capitalism" other than what I wrote above and we can all see that it has led to these salaries which, IMO, are *almost always* unjustifiable. But, Komi8 has to win. I was kind of hoping there would be some economics majors here to bail me out. Oh well, together I think we have all given him some good ideas.

Do you think he even understands what we are talking about?


Komi:

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Old
01-15-2004, 11:17 AM
  #14
Traitor8
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Thanks guys.

Yes I do understand what your all talking about...
It's hard but I still can't find a site about revenues for each sportd team.

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Old
01-15-2004, 11:20 AM
  #15
Habsaku
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You can also mention the fact that if players don't make that money, it all goes to the owner who gets rich by doing nothing. Its going to a single person.

On the other hand, lower salaries might mean lower ticket prices....

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