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Great pre-NHL stats; but never amounted in the show

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Old
11-10-2007, 12:40 AM
  #1
Raoul Duke*
 
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Great pre-NHL stats; but never amounted in the show

Hopefully the title is explanitory itself. On the main board there's a thread about players with weak stats prior to the NHL who made it big....

Start with the obvious:

Alexandre Daigle
1992-93 Victoriaville Tigres QMJHL GP: 53 G: 45 A: 92 Pts: 137

Although I'm not sure how great it is, when it's in the notoriously high scoring QMJHL, and Simon Gamache is still being called up and down by the Maple Leafs as we speak:

2000-01 Val-d'Or Foreurs QMJHL GP: 72 G: 74 A: 110 Pts: 184


Alex Faulkner - played for the Detroit Red Wings for 100 games in 1962-64, getting 25 goals. 1 game for the Toronto Maple Leafs. But check out the stats in the Senior League circuit (which they played in pre-expansion), in a 30 team league like today, you have to wonder:

1958-59 Conception Bay Cee Bees Nfld-Sr. GP: 25 G: 103 A: 49 Pts: 152
Playoffs....................................GP: 8 G: 23 A: 13 Pts: 36

That's 126 goals, 62 assists and 189 points in 33 games...

The next year:

1959-60 Conception Bay Cee Bees Nfld-Sr. GP: 19 G: 47 A: 36 Pts: 83
Playoffs....................................GP: 11 G: 41 A: 45 Pts: 86

87 goals, 169 points in 30 games.


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Old
11-10-2007, 11:19 AM
  #2
kent_carlson
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
Hopefully the title is explanitory itself. On the main board there's a thread about players with weak stats prior to the NHL who made it big....

Start with the obvious:

Alexandre Daigle
1992-93 Victoriaville Tigres QMJHL GP: 53 G: 45 A: 92 Pts: 137

Although I'm not sure how great it is, when it's in the notoriously high scoring QMJHL, and Simon Gamache is still being called up and down by the Maple Leafs as we speak:

2000-01 Val-d'Or Foreurs QMJHL GP: 72 G: 74 A: 110 Pts: 184


Alex Faulkner - played for the Detroit Red Wings for 100 games in 1962-64, getting 25 goals. 1 game for the Toronto Maple Leafs. But check out the stats in the Senior League circuit (which they played in pre-expansion), in a 30 team league like today, you have to wonder:

1958-59 Conception Bay Cee Bees Nfld-Sr. GP: 25 G: 103 A: 49 Pts: 152
Playoffs....................................GP: 8 G: 23 A: 13 Pts: 36

That's 126 goals, 62 assists and 189 points in 33 games...

The next year:

1959-60 Conception Bay Cee Bees Nfld-Sr. GP: 19 G: 47 A: 36 Pts: 83
Playoffs....................................GP: 11 G: 41 A: 45 Pts: 86

87 goals, 169 points in 30 games.

There are so many examples, just look at all the 1st round pick who failed or players like Corey Locke

2002-03 Ottawa 67's OHL 66 63 88 151.

There's also some funny stuff like, who is this guy with almost a PPG in this short season?

2000-01 Mississauga Ice Dogs OHL 31 20 9 29 83






Brian McGrattan

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Old
11-10-2007, 11:55 AM
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Big Phil
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I dont like him but Sheldon Keefe put up some very good numbers even in his draft year. His size and attitude (Frost was his agent) hurt him though. I often wondered why he never played for Canada at the WJC but apparently being disruptive was a bad trait of his

Gamache at the same age put up two less points than Brad Richards. It's amazing he has never amounted to anything more than a struggling NHLer on the fence, even with the Leafs.

Ernie Godden, never played in the NHL but has a still record of 87 goals in the OHL back in '80-81. Tavares might break that but how in the world can a 87 goal man not make the NHL, I mean not even once. I dont know a lot about him but does anyone remember why Godden flopped?

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11-10-2007, 12:12 PM
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Jock Callander
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts
1978-79 Regina Pats WHL 19 3 2 5 0
1979-80 Regina Pats WHL 39 9 11 20 25
1980-81 Regina Pats WHL 72 67 86 153 37
1981-82 Regina Pats WHL 71 79 111 190 59

Dale Derkatch
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts
1981-82 Regina Pats WHL 71 62 80 142 92
1982-83 Regina Pats WHL 67 84 95 179 62
1983-84 Regina Pats WHL 62 72 87 159 92
1984-85 Regina Pats WHL 4 4 7 11 0 59

Guy Rouleau
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts
1982-83 Longueuil Chevaliers QMJHL 68 25 31 56 23
1983-84 Longueuil Chevaliers QMJHL 70 60 73 133 28
1984-85 Longueuil Chevaliers QMJHL 60 76 87 163 68
1985-86 Longueuil Chevaliers QMJHL 1 0 0 0 2
1985-86 Hull Olympiques QMJHL 61 91 100 191 70

Patrice Lefebvre
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts
1984-85 Shawinigan Cataractes QMJHL 68 28 52 80 63
1985-86 Shawinigan Cataractes QMJHL 69 38 98 136 146
1986-87 Shawinigan Cataractes QMJHL 69 57 122 179 144
1987-88 Shawinigan Cataractes QMJHL 70 64 136 200 142

Sylvain Locas
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts
1974-75 Chicoutimi Sagueneens QMJHL 60 32 32 64 39
1975-76 Chicoutimi Sagueneens QMJHL 72 80 80 160 95
1976-77 Chicoutimi Sagueneens QMJHL 72 59 98 157 101
1977-78 Chicoutimi Sagueneens QMJHL 6 3 4 7 10
1977-78 Sherbrooke Beavers QMJHL 62 80 77 157 128

There is a bunch of them.

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Old
11-10-2007, 12:25 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
Jock Callander
Dale Derkatch
Guy Rouleau
Patrice Lefebvre
Sylvain Locas
There is a bunch of them.
I liked Rouleau, but just like Lefebvre, he was a bit too small for the NHL at the time. An easy one:

Brian Fogarty

1988-89 Niagara Falls Thunder OHL 60 47 108 155

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Old
11-10-2007, 12:33 PM
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reckoning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Ernie Godden, never played in the NHL but has a still record of 87 goals in the OHL back in '80-81. Tavares might break that but how in the world can a 87 goal man not make the NHL, I mean not even once. I dont know a lot about him but does anyone remember why Godden flopped?
Godden was small and not very tough. Even with that you'd think he would've been able to stick somewhere. I think he actually played 4 or 5 games with the Leafs.

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11-10-2007, 12:37 PM
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Christian Matte (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php3?pid=10722)

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Old
11-10-2007, 03:18 PM
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Len Barrie had 185 points with the Kamloops Blazers in his last season of junior. His NHL career amounted to 64 points.

Kelly Guard set every WHL goaltending record that exists with the Kelowna Rockets and is still somewhere in the Ottawa Senators system. He will never play in the NHL. He is a classic beneficiary of the huge goaltending equipment. Little talent, just learned to make the most of his ridiculous gear.

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11-10-2007, 03:24 PM
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Flash Walken
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Alexandre Burrows scored 184 points in 70 or so games in his last season in the Q.

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11-10-2007, 04:28 PM
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What about Rob Brown? And he played in pro but didnt do much in the NHL.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...?pid%5B%5D=619

He did score over 100 pts in 1 nhl season i think Mario had something to do with that?

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11-10-2007, 04:30 PM
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Alexandre Burrows scored 184 points in 70 or so games in his last season in the Q.
rob brown 212 in 65 games.

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Old
11-10-2007, 05:01 PM
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Passchendaele
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Alexandre Burrows scored 184 points in 70 or so games in his last season in the Q.
184 PIM. only 70 pts.

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Old
11-10-2007, 05:14 PM
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pappyline
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Guyle Fielder

15 NHL games over 4 seasons--0 points. Superstar for many years in the minor pro leagues.

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Old
11-10-2007, 05:26 PM
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There's a reason Doug Wickenheiser got drafted 1st overall in 1980, over Denis Savard. He had 170 points in 70 games in the WHL in his draft year. He never got more than 55 points in a season in the NHL.

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Old
11-10-2007, 05:56 PM
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Sensfanman
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Bryan Fogarty

One of the most tragic stories I've heard of in terms of hockey. He shattered Bobby Orr's OHL records but the poor kid lacked the mental toughness. Didn't explode the NHL like he could have.

Records
* Most points in a season by a defenceman (CHL) - 155 (47G, 108A), 1988-89
* Most goals in a season by a defenceman (OHL) - 47, 1988-89
* Most assists in a season by a defenceman (OHL) - 108, 1988-89
* Most points in a game by a defenceman (OHL) - 8 (3 goals, 5 assists) - Nov. 11 1988 - vs. Sudbury Wolves

"He had everything. He could skate like the wind. He could see anybody on the ice. He could make the perfect pass. He was as talented as anybody I've seen in junior hockey. He broke all of Bobby Orr's records. Everybody was telling me you can't go wrong with him." - Maurice Filion, former Quebec GM, who drafted Bryan Fogarty with the Nordiques' first pick in 1987, six picks ahead of Quebec's second selection, Joe Sakic.

"He needed the beer, but it was his demise. The profession, the lifestyle -- he couldn't handle it. He wanted the hockey, but it was so hard the way he was. The inside of Bryan and the world around him didn't seem to meet." - Virginia Fogarty (Bryan's mother)

"Mats Sundin told me this: 'Bryan Fogarty could skate faster, shoot harder and pass crisper drunk than the rest of us could sober.'" - Max Offenberger

"He was the best player I have ever seen. He had a heart of gold. He'd never hurt a fly. He'd do anything for you. He just couldn't help himself." - Marc Laforge

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11-10-2007, 06:02 PM
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184 PIM. only 70 pts.
whoops

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Old
11-10-2007, 06:58 PM
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Nothing against Ray Ferraro's NHL career, but I can't get over how he scored 108 goals in 72 games for the Brandon Wheatkings.

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11-10-2007, 07:16 PM
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Bill McDougall scored 52 points in 16 games for the Cape Breton Oilers in the 1993 playoffs. Think about that. 52 points in a pro-hockey playoff. Wayne Gretzky never did that. Roman Oksiuta was second on the team with 28 points.

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Old
11-10-2007, 07:33 PM
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pappyline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by familyguyman View Post
Bryan Fogarty

One of the most tragic stories I've heard of in terms of hockey. He shattered Bobby Orr's OHL records but the poor kid lacked the mental toughness. Didn't explode the NHL like he could have.

Records
* Most points in a season by a defenceman (CHL) - 155 (47G, 108A), 1988-89
* Most goals in a season by a defenceman (OHL) - 47, 1988-89
* Most assists in a season by a defenceman (OHL) - 108, 1988-89
* Most points in a game by a defenceman (OHL) - 8 (3 goals, 5 assists) - Nov. 11 1988 - vs. Sudbury Wolves

"He had everything. He could skate like the wind. He could see anybody on the ice. He could make the perfect pass. He was as talented as anybody I've seen in junior hockey. He broke all of Bobby Orr's records. Everybody was telling me you can't go wrong with him." - Maurice Filion, former Quebec GM, who drafted Bryan Fogarty with the Nordiques' first pick in 1987, six picks ahead of Quebec's second selection, Joe Sakic.

"He needed the beer, but it was his demise. The profession, the lifestyle -- he couldn't handle it. He wanted the hockey, but it was so hard the way he was. The inside of Bryan and the world around him didn't seem to meet." - Virginia Fogarty (Bryan's mother)

"Mats Sundin told me this: 'Bryan Fogarty could skate faster, shoot harder and pass crisper drunk than the rest of us could sober.'" - Max Offenberger

"He was the best player I have ever seen. He had a heart of gold. He'd never hurt a fly. He'd do anything for you. He just couldn't help himself." - Marc Laforge
Wow, so tragic, Substance abuse can sure destroy a life.

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Old
11-10-2007, 08:22 PM
  #20
Sensfanman
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Wow, so tragic, Substance abuse can sure destroy a life.
Yeah, when I read this stuff for the first time I couldn't believe I hadn't heard of this sooner, not much is said about this kid anymore.

Oh and for a better insight, this a story from espn (yeah I know, random) with different peoples perspectives on his life as it went up and down...sounds like he needed a friend.

http://espn.go.com/magazine/vol5no20fogarty.html

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Old
11-10-2007, 10:18 PM
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Leaf Lander
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alot of atheltes kill there careers from excessive drugs or alcohol

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11-10-2007, 10:29 PM
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Sensfanman
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alot of atheltes kill there careers from excessive drugs or alcohol
Well yes, but this kid killed himself. Not only that but he apparantly had elite talent. Not many elite players wind up like that.

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