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hypothetical: Scotty comes back, then what?

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Old
11-12-2007, 05:42 PM
  #1
snarktacular
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hypothetical: Scotty comes back, then what?

So I'm somewhat of a sucker for hypotheticals and armchair GMing. It makes for discussion when nothing's happening.

If Scotty comes back, then what should the GM do? Is that too much money spent in the blue line and not enough spent of forwards? Or is it better to keep a stacked defense? Would Niedermayer retire for real after this year? Would keeping the stacked defense and drastically reducing Niedermayer's minutes increase the chances of him not retiring again after the year?

Things to keep in mind:
  • If Nieds comes back in mid-December, we'd still be above the budget of 44 million by about 4 million. Would we be allowed to exceed budget?
  • OD and Schneider just signed deals last summer. Beauchemin is in the first year of his 2 year extension. It's rare that someone who just signed is traded, especially someone who comes from another team.
  • Pronger is the only defenseman signed past next season
  • If Nieds returns next season, we'll HAVE to jettison salary to keep Getzlaf and Perry

To me that defense seems to be overkill. And I still think we'd have to pare salary this year. I'm afraid Niedermayer returning will cause problems salary-wise. OD, Marchant, and Bryzgalov will probably all have to be move for minimal returns just for salary. Maybe we'll get a lower tier top-6 forward back.

It's funny because we don't have many movable parts to shed salary, a lot of the big salaries have just been signed or are untouchable for other reasons (Giguere, Schneider, Special Nieds, Bertuzzi, O'Donnell, Beauchemin, Pahlsson).

To be honest, I would almost prefer Nieds to just retire and for Selanne to come back because I have more faith in Schneider to replace Niedermayer than I have in Bertuzi + Mowers/Marchant/Miller/scrub of the week to replace Selanne and Penner. But this thread is for a hypothetical Niedermayer return.

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11-12-2007, 06:31 PM
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11-12-2007, 06:34 PM
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I'll jettison you!

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11-12-2007, 06:34 PM
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snarktacular
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I think you'd need to photoshop some more gray into the 2nd picture since he'd be a year older.

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11-12-2007, 07:37 PM
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OD or Frankie will need to be traded. Frankie getting traded is unlikely but he'd get a much, much better return if Burke felt compelled to make such a move. Simply put, having 5 top-4 d-men is one too many. But Frankie is only 27 and makes peanuts for what he does for us. Scotty would have to be committed to coming back next year before Burkie could even flirt with the idea of trading him.

But I think if Scotty comes back, Teemu may lean that way as well which would eliminate any desperate need for a forward.

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11-12-2007, 09:13 PM
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Yeah I don't like trading Frankie just because the way the team is structured, we need some salary value. Beauchemin provides the best value on the team. We would get a better player trading him than trading O'Donnell, but that player would also be much more expensive. Unless you're trading him for picks, prospects, or guys on ELCs.

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11-12-2007, 10:01 PM
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If Scotty comes back, hope that Teemu comes back too and when that happens trade Scotty + Special for a huge return.

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11-12-2007, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers View Post
If Scotty comes back, hope that Teemu comes back too and when that happens trade Scotty + Special for a huge return.
wouldn't be worth the return...

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11-12-2007, 11:40 PM
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Marchant? May? Bryz? Hnidy? Anyone else we can drop?

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11-12-2007, 11:53 PM
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With the Ducks, the offense starts with the defense so I don't mind, and no one else should mind, if we spend most of the money on defense and I think Nieds coming back = Teemu coming back.

so..

Kunie-Andy-Teemu (Kunie wins it, Andy passes it, Teemu finishes it)
Bert-Getz-Perry (Perry behind the net, Getz with the shot, Bert cleans up the garbage)
Moen-Sami-Rob (top shutdown line in the league)
May-Marchant-Parros (energy line, tough, hardworking, leadership)
Miller, Mowers

Beauch-Scotty (http://youtube.com/watch?v=VEeujx7ImHA)
OD-Prongs (both tough, "in your face", Prongs with the gun)
Husky-Schneids (speed and smarts, husky with the occasional coast-to-coast run)
Hnidy

PP 1

Bert-Getz-Teemu
Prongs-Scotty
(Getz at the left point, Prongs at the Right, Scotty in the "rover", Teemu on the side boards, Bert with the screen)

PP 2

Kunie-Andy-Perry
Beauch-Schneids
(Beauch and Schneids firing from the point, Kunie with the screen, Andy on the side boards feeding everyone, Perry behind the net)

The cup team had Penner instead of Bertuzzi and DiPenta instead of Schneider.

Penner last year = Healthy Bert this year
Schneider >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DiPenta

Looks cup worthy on paper and there are a lot of questions already answered.

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11-13-2007, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeMoZ View Post
Husky-Schneids (speed and smarts, husky with the occasional coast-to-coast run)
You don't pay a guy damn near 6 million dollars to be a third pairing d-man. Hell that's four times what you should pay for the third pair combined.

It's simple. Scotty comes back, OD is traded. I love OD but there's no room for him on the top-4, regardless how we plays with Pronger. Scneinder or Frankie would make a fine substitute for OD.

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11-13-2007, 12:43 AM
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I am pretty sure ownership made an exception that if Niedermayer and/or Selanne came back that Burke had permission to go over the self imposed cap. Still 2 million isn't alot of capspace, Bryz or Marchant would have to be moved soon. Selanne probably isn't gonna break the bank if he plays though.

I would make sure to manage the minutes of the top 4 defensemen, No need for both pairs to play 25 a night. Fewer minutes for Frankie and Pronger will let them play more physical. Huskins and O'donnell can handle 15 minutes a night.

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11-13-2007, 01:04 AM
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Personally, I think Selanne's done. Even if he does come back, it's just too long, and he's too old.

He started very slowly last season, and I don't see how he could ever really get himself rolling at this point.

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11-13-2007, 01:58 AM
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if nieds come back and confirms that he plays next season too i ll secretly hope that burke traders Pronger for something like Kovalchuk

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11-13-2007, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulak View Post
if nieds come back and confirms that he plays next season too i ll secretly hope that burke traders Pronger for something like Kovalchuk
It's been said before. Clearly the "C" on Pronger's chest indicates that Anaheim is planning on having the guy stick around for a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller View Post
I am pretty sure ownership made an exception that if Niedermayer and/or Selanne came back that Burke had permission to go over the self imposed cap. Still 2 million isn't alot of capspace, Bryz or Marchant would have to be moved soon. Selanne probably isn't gonna break the bank if he plays though.

I would make sure to manage the minutes of the top 4 defensemen, No need for both pairs to play 25 a night. Fewer minutes for Frankie and Pronger will let them play more physical. Huskins and O'donnell can handle 15 minutes a night.
+1 ... I think it's become obvious in the last few games that playing 25 minutes a game is taking its toll on Beauchemin especially (when did we come up with "Franky"? GAY.) He's just not bringing the same kind of physical play, and its understandable since he's playing what, 29 mins/game avg? That's a lot. Get him below 25 and I think he's going to have some better games.

For what it's worth, assuming we got rid of O'Donnell (which would make me sad) the d would still be pretty solid:

Neids-Beauchemin
Pronger-Schneider
Huskins-Hnidy


Last edited by theShiba: 11-13-2007 at 02:14 AM.
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11-13-2007, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
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if nieds come back and confirms that he plays next season too i ll secretly hope that burke traders Pronger for something like Kovalchuk
Atlanta would never trade their franchise player who's only 24 for Pronger, who's on the wrong side of 30. The Thrashers have far too many holes to fill to make that type of move. Value-wise it's an even deal, but marketing/hockey wise it makes no sense at all for them. You'd have better luck prying Heatley out or Ottawa for Pronger.

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11-13-2007, 03:06 PM
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Personally, I think Selanne's done. Even if he does come back, it's just too long, and he's too old.

He started very slowly last season, and I don't see how he could ever really get himself rolling at this point.
I think you're overlooking the fact that Selanne was really sick at the beginning of the season.

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11-24-2007, 04:41 PM
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Assuming you could work out the cap/budget issues, would you guys trade Neidermeyer for Jagr straight up? or rather, would that fit your team needs (i.e. replacing Selanne's spot). Of course you'd get a hall of famer for a player who's not even playing

FYI, Jagr hits us with $4.9 but only because of some weird CBA grandfather clause where Washington is sharing that with us. His actually number would probably be $8.36M! HOWEVER since 1/4 of the season is over, that number would be a much much more digestable $6M. And every game that pass is another 100K off the cap (holy crap! 100k per game?!?)

and according to this
http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=ANA
you guys have $5.958 cap space? So give it one game and he'd fit! It'd be just a matter of getting your owners to commit. And accepting that you're screwed on roster flexibility.

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11-24-2007, 05:50 PM
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Assuming you could work out the cap/budget issues, would you guys trade Neidermeyer for Jagr straight up? or rather, would that fit your team needs (i.e. replacing Selanne's spot). Of course you'd get a hall of famer for a player who's not even playing

FYI, Jagr hits us with $4.9 but only because of some weird CBA grandfather clause where Washington is sharing that with us. His actually number would probably be $8.36M! HOWEVER since 1/4 of the season is over, that number would be a much much more digestable $6M. And every game that pass is another 100K off the cap (holy crap! 100k per game?!?)

and according to this
http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=ANA
you guys have $5.958 cap space? So give it one game and he'd fit! It'd be just a matter of getting your owners to commit. And accepting that you're screwed on roster flexibility.
No.

Just... no.

Jagr is an amazing player, there's no denying that, but for Anaheim there is no player more valuable than Scott Niedermayer. The entire basis of their strategy is based around puck-moving defensemen. It's the concept that offense begins with defense and ends with defense.

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11-24-2007, 07:30 PM
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ok, i didn't clarify. There was a rumor that Niedermeyer wasn't going to return to Anaheim sparking all sorts of far-fetched trade talks. So in Bizzaro world where Niedermeyer isn't coming back to the Ducks and Brian Burke HAS to pull the trigger for fictitious reason X, would you do Jagr for Niedermeyer?

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11-24-2007, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
ok, i didn't clarify. There was a rumor that Niedermeyer wasn't going to return to Anaheim sparking all sorts of far-fetched trade talks. So in Bizzaro world where Niedermeyer isn't coming back to the Ducks and Brian Burke HAS to pull the trigger for fictitious reason X, would you do Jagr for Niedermeyer?
If Niedermayer isn't coming back, then why does he have any trade value whatsoever? Why then would we be able to get Jagr for (essentially) free?

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11-24-2007, 09:11 PM
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If Niedermayer isn't coming back, then why does he have any trade value whatsoever? Why then would we be able to get Jagr for (essentially) free?
back to the ducks. sheesh. i thought it was clear enough.

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11-24-2007, 09:35 PM
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ok, i didn't clarify. There was a rumor that Niedermeyer wasn't going to return to Anaheim sparking all sorts of far-fetched trade talks. So in Bizzaro world where Niedermeyer isn't coming back to the Ducks and Brian Burke HAS to pull the trigger for fictitious reason X, would you do Jagr for Niedermeyer?
No, because that makes absolutely no sense. If Niedermayer isn't going to return to Anaheim, how the hell is he going to have any trade value?

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11-24-2007, 09:52 PM
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back to the ducks. sheesh. i thought it was clear enough.
No, I had no idea what you were talking about. I thought you meant Niedermayer wasn't coming back to the NHL, not that he didn't want to play for Anaheim. I didn't even realize anyone pays attention to that site anymore. Only now did I realize you're talking about a theory of he-who-shall not be named.

In a strict hypothetical, if Scott demanded a trade if Jagr would be enough for Niedermayer, I'd say no. A) Burke doesn't like Europeans. B) Burke doesn't like non-physical players. C) The Ducks need to dump salary. Jagr's smaller salary this season helps, but his 5 million next season hurts.

If you ask me I think this kind of deal makes more sense: a) Top 6 winger who is a UFA-to-be (not 1st line, but a 2nd liner) and b) Good prospect who is ~1 year away. Like Bourret or maybe Staal (Anaheim would have to throw in something small, like a 2nd). And Shanahan for the UFA? Although didn't he not want to leave New York and thus didn't even consider talking to other teams last offseason?

And wouldn't what is it with all these rumors of big money players to NY? If Shanahan does well they are going to end up losing cap space next year. They'd need to clear salary in a different move first.

For Ducks fans, this is the founding Eklund theory: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=11312 Note that it's just a theory and not a rumor with any sort of source.

Oh and Niedermayer to the Rangers? Are you intentionally trying to piss off Devils fans?

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Old
11-25-2007, 08:48 AM
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No offense N8 but that is the most pointless / unrealistic hypothetical trade scenario I've ever seen on these boards.

Getting back to the real point(s) of the thread, any additional word on whether he has continued skating / conditioning for a return, etc? Any new details or interviews in recent days?

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