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here come the oneill rumours

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Old
01-16-2004, 04:20 PM
  #51
bleedgreen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner
Canucks a stacked team...King has been playing with a couple of guys that have never even scored 45 points. One of them MAY break that barrier but it is not like he has Ron Francis passing him the puck. The Nux may have some good top line players, but King rarely ever plays with them.

He is an NHL regular right now....apparently on a stacked team.

He is a rookie and rookies are inconsistent.

He would be in the top 3 in scoring on the Canes ad never had anyone as good as Brindy or Francis to play with.
how many times do i have to point this out, jason king-3 assists since november. oneill is leading the team in scoring without playing with francis. let it go-we dont want king. i dont think he sucks, i just expect more for oneill. i take that back...how bout king for irbe?

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01-16-2004, 04:20 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner
Canucks a stacked team...King has been playing with a couple of guys that have never even scored 45 points. One of them MAY break that barrier but it is not like he has Ron Francis passing him the puck. The Nux may have some good top line players, but King rarely ever plays with them.

He is an NHL regular right now....apparently on a stacked team.

He is a rookie and rookies are inconsistent.

He would be in the top 3 in scoring on the Canes ad never had anyone as good as Brindy or Francis to play with.
Playing on a great team goes far beyond who you are playing with; it has more to do with who you do not play against.

King may be a solid role player throughout his career, but CanuckFan regularly pimps him as a future star, which he is not.

No offense to Peter. I've read your posts on other threads and, while I don't always agree, you always present your opinion in a rational manner.

Also would not be opposed to a trade involving Sopel, but a team of role players has no need for King.

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01-16-2004, 04:22 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen
how bout king for irbe?
That would be sweet.

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01-16-2004, 04:24 PM
  #54
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i think that if we talk to the canucks, allen is the guy we key on. nuck fans wouldnt want it, but it takes something to get something.

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01-16-2004, 04:31 PM
  #55
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I think trading O'Neill is a dumb move anyway. He's having one bad year, but look at the team. If he wants to stay, and I don't have any info on that either way, it would have to be a pretty solid package to move him. It would have to be a known commodity because you can't move what you know will be a future all-star for a prospect who may never amount to anything.

I shudder when I think of O'Neill in a bruins uni. I wouldn't move him to Boston for any package because his 40-goal seasons playing with Thornton would haunt me.

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01-16-2004, 04:33 PM
  #56
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[QUOTE=WoodGundy
I shudder when I think of O'Neill in a bruins uni. I wouldn't move him to Boston for any package because his 40-goal seasons playing with Thornton would haunt me.[/QUOTE]
ditto. i think they would be one of the teams bidding though.

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01-16-2004, 04:35 PM
  #57
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Rutherford was probably scorched bad enough by the Wesley for three first deals that he won't mess with the Bruins anymore. O'Neill will not, I repeat, will not, be traded to the Bruins. He has the potential to come back and bite us hard on that one.

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01-16-2004, 05:39 PM
  #58
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Some discontinuous thoughts....

I do not think O'Neill is ever going to be an 80 point guy. I think what we have seen over the last three years is what he is. A darn good first line winger, that has some nice intangibles and some real faults. Just a bit behind Ryan Smyth in value. A very good player no doubt.

...........

I am not trying to pimp King I was just looking at the Hurricanes lineup and realize that a young centre is not going to be something the Canes want. It is all around the D and a winger to replace some of O'neill's production.

.........

If you look at trade value of our D I think most Nuk fans would agree that:

Jovo>Ohlund>Sopel>Allen>Koltsov>Salo>Malik>Slegr.

Lots of people that don't follow the Canucks would not agree with that assessment....as with any team.

.......

I cannot figure Rutherford out. Who cares if that team makes the playoffs? They need to rebuild badly. If you can't win with aging players it is time to face reality. I understand the situation with the fans is a bit tenuous there but they are not going to get better in the long run without putting up with some real pain like Vancouver did. I would try desperately to get rid of Brindy for some decent value (even a guy like Berglund and a second round pick), I would get as much as I could for O'Neill and get on with the rebuild. Franny won't be traded unless he wants to. O'Neill's value will only improve with sustained increased production but I think most GMs are willing to pay close to full value right now (what they would get if he was producing).

Washington is a team in the same boat with worse long term prospects, a larger budget and probably a more dedicated fan base. They need to get what they can for Bondra, reap the rewards a traded Gonchar would bring and maybe see if they can turn Witt into a younger D-man with better upside. I just don't get why so many teams just let their asset base decline in value while raising payroll. So stupid.

The Canes made a good run and made an attempt to go after the cup a second year. The fans should be happy with that and support the rebuild. I can tell you that watching no-name players with heart and some skill is a lot better than watching petulant athletes go through the motions. The late 90's were a brutal time to watch my nux. The rebuilding squad was a lot more fun. Besides it is time for guys like Cole and Vasicek to step up and lead the next generation.

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01-16-2004, 05:46 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodGundy
Playing on a great team goes far beyond who you are playing with; it has more to do with who you do not play against.

King may be a solid role player throughout his career, but CanuckFan regularly pimps him as a future star, which he is not.

No offense to Peter. I've read your posts on other threads and, while I don't always agree, you always present your opinion in a rational manner.

Also would not be opposed to a trade involving Sopel, but a team of role players has no need for King.
I think it would be ideal for the Canucks to not have to trade King, I think most of us are thinking that the Canes would want a player back to score a few goals from the second line and mitigate as much as possible for the lost production from O'Neill. You are not going to get a 30 goal scorer in return (why would anyone trade for O'Neill then?) unless it is a guy like Carter who is also struggling and then I really wonder why you even make that deal. If the Canucks traded Sopel we need a right handed shooting D back that can fill in on the top 4. Hill is that guy. If the Canes trade O'Neill they need youth.....I think we were all just putting 2 and 2 together.

Regardless of what the player names are I think many feel that there is a decent fit between the tems for a trade and that O'Neill is going to cost a pretty penny. I just hope it does not involve Allen or Cooke.

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01-16-2004, 05:47 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner
I think it would be ideal for the Canucks to not have to trade King, I think most of us are thinking that the Canes would want a player back to score a few goals from the second line and mitigate as much as possible for the lost production from O'Neill. You are not going to get a 30 goal scorer in return (why would anyone trade for O'Neill then?) unless it is a guy like Carter who is also struggling and then I really wonder why you even make that deal. If the Canucks traded Sopel we need a right handed shooting D back that can fill in on the top 4. Hill is that guy. If the Canes trade O'Neill they need youth.....I think we were all just putting 2 and 2 together.

Regardless of what the player names are I think many feel that there is a decent fit between the tems for a trade and that O'Neill is going to cost a pretty penny. I just hope it does not involve Allen or Cooke.
I think O'Neill just bought himself some more time tonight and hopefully we can put these rumors to bed. I like O'Neill quite a bit and hope he sticks around.

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Old
01-16-2004, 06:11 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner
I cannot figure Rutherford out. Who cares if that team makes the playoffs? They need to rebuild badly. If you can't win with aging players it is time to face reality. I understand the situation with the fans is a bit tenuous there but they are not going to get better in the long run without putting up with some real pain like Vancouver did. I would try desperately to get rid of Brindy for some decent value
Preaching to the choir on these excellent points.

However, I disagree that we need to move a 28 year-old player who has scored at least 25 goals in each of the last four years and is "only" making $3.7m. Assuming a rebuilding effort took 5 or 6 years, he's only 33 and a key veteren when the efforts pay off.

And we will have to agree to disagree on King. I watched him for three years here and you will never sell me on him as a 2nd line player. Despite his size, Brandon Reid has more upside in my opinion.

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01-16-2004, 06:18 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodGundy
Preaching to the choir on these excellent points.

However, I disagree that we need to move a 28 year-old player who has scored at least 25 goals in each of the last four years and is "only" making $3.7m. Assuming a rebuilding effort took 5 or 6 years, he's only 33 and a key veteren when the efforts pay off.

And we will have to agree to disagree on King. I watched him for three years here and you will never sell me on him as a 2nd line player. Despite his size, Brandon Reid has more upside in my opinion.
You have a right to make what I think is an informed opinion on King. I am not against keeping him, that is for sure. I think he is a going to be a handy 40-50 point scorer for the Canucks or some other team. I like his willingness to pay the price to score, think he has a great shot and pretty good wheels. We just need a better insuance policy than that if Naslund or Bert get injured and we have a chance to win a cup. I think many Canuck fans are willing to trade away a significant part of the future to go for it now. I hope management feels the same way. Naslund has certainly been outspoken (for a quiet guy) on the issue. He expects some more help, Burke better deliver. Koltsov, Sopel (with Hill coming the other way), 1st round picks, Umberger etc. are all tradeable. Even Cooke could be. I just don't want Allen gone as that creates a hole I don't think we can fill. we need a big d-man and he is all we have.

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Old
01-16-2004, 06:26 PM
  #63
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Though he has looked better lately, let me save you some trouble and forget Hill. I love watching the Canucks by the way and would say I hope they win the Cup, since the 'Canes obviously will not. Seeing O'Neill reunited with Bertuzzi would be pretty sweet and if he were to go, Vancouver would be my first choice.

I really hope we keep him though. I would be all for moving Brind'Amour, however, who makes more money, would not play as significant a role in a rebuilt 'Cane team and is damaged goods both physically and emotionally. When I sell it like that, they should be lining up come deadline time.

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01-16-2004, 06:40 PM
  #64
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its nice to hear someone else thinks this team needs to rebuild. rutherford wont make up his mind because he thinks the canes are always one winning streak away. its been a couple years now of "thats it, if things dont pick up we're making some changes around here". they win a few games, and it goes away for awhile. oneill scoring tonight is exactly what i mean. tonight hes good, so any deals are off for another month-cause maybe we're going to make the playoffs because of tonight. rutherford needs to get off the fence, because if he really believes in this present team, he still needs to add players. if this is the team theyre goingwith through the playoffs, we need a back-up goalie and some immediate scoring. if this team isnt good enough-let the building begin!

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01-17-2004, 05:22 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen
i think there is a reason why hamrliks name is attached to every trade rumour out of li, as well as the majority trade threads out of the same area.

Hamrlik's name's attached to so many rumors because the nyi have a tight budget and several key rfas this summer including Hamrlik,Aucoin,Niinimaa.

If Hamrlik(making $3.6m), were willing to sign a team friendly extension,the isles would be glad to keep him.

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01-19-2004, 07:01 AM
  #66
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Prepare to pooh a brick, O'Neill could be gone as soon as today:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=45011

How much money you want to bet it's Hamrlik?

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01-19-2004, 08:37 AM
  #67
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The article said: "Rutherford would not specify what trade or trades he would make but indicated any likely deal would be a swap of defense for offense, and it could happen as soon as today."

Defense for offense, not offense for defense.

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01-19-2004, 12:44 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koltsov71
The article said: "Rutherford would not specify what trade or trades he would make but indicated any likely deal would be a swap of defense for offense, and it could happen as soon as today."

Defense for offense, not offense for defense.
just read the newsobserver, im confused - what d do we have that is worth a forward that can actually help this team? it sounds like rutherford isnt prepared to rebuild yet, can you believe it? it sounds like he is desperate, which never makes for a good trade. this does not bode well friends.

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01-19-2004, 12:53 PM
  #69
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...48&hubName=nhl
this link says he wants to change up the forwards, now im really confused. i think he may include a dman WITH oneill to get a deal done!
heres both stories in the observer.
http://www.newsobserver.com/hurrican...-2900062c.html

http://www.newsobserver.com/hurrican...-2900104c.html

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01-19-2004, 12:54 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen
what d do we have that is worth a forward that can actually help this team?
That's the big question. Markov is the only one that seems to fit that bill, and I think it would be pretty absurd to deal him. I'm sure some teams would have interest in the likes of Boughner, Wesley, Hill, Ward, etc, but I can't see anyone sending us a forward that would make any difference to our offense. I guess we will have to wait and see.

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01-19-2004, 12:59 PM
  #71
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i really think hes sending a d with oneill, why would decock do an article on oneill if he wasnt out? decock doesnt talk about this stuff until it is about to happen.

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01-19-2004, 01:02 PM
  #72
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I still refuse to accept that O'Neill is being dealt, but that's me. I'll believe it when I see it.

This team definitely needs changes, don't get me wrong. But I have a feeling that the GM is going to make the wrong ones.

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01-19-2004, 01:03 PM
  #73
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i think hedican has the most value - that they willl trade, and is a little more likely to go than markov. i would really hate to see him go.

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01-19-2004, 01:06 PM
  #74
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thats actually been my point since ive gotten on here, if they change things up -i want rutherford gone first, i dont trust him to rebuild this team. how can he not give up onthis team yet? maybe he thinks if he rebuilds he is out th edoor?

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01-19-2004, 04:19 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koltsov71
I still refuse to accept that O'Neill is being dealt, but that's me. I'll believe it when I see it.
Trading O'Neill is insanity. You know they would not get what he is worth to the team in return.

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