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11-16-2007, 12:59 AM
  #1
The Thomas J.*
 
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4th line

How good is the Ranger coaching staff, they turned Hollweg & Orr into legitimate hockey players that can shut down opposing teams top lines. Its freakin mind bloggling.

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11-16-2007, 01:04 AM
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It's really good to see, I don't want anyone out of the lineup at this point. I've totally forgoten about Straka and Cally, I know they need to play, I just don't know what the coaching staff is going to do. The 4th line is really playing well

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11-16-2007, 01:22 AM
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They've been playing well, but that's a stretch in my opinion. They're not shutdown players.

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11-16-2007, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bretzky-StaalFor07 View Post
They've been playing well, but that's a stretch in my opinion. They're not shutdown players.
not only are they not shut down players they are not legitimate hockey players either but i do agree that they have improved.

They had to and will continue to have to if they want any chance of staying in the line up or even on the roster.

There's alot of depth in the frqanchise right now, specifically for 3rd and 4th line role players. These kids will eventually be younger and cheaper so Orr and Hollweg and also Hossa (IMO) will need to continue to develop and quikcly....

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11-16-2007, 05:26 AM
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They have improved but they simply do not have the skill set to improve enough to remain with the team.
Hollweg will be/should be the first to go and Orr's minutes/games needs to be cut down.

Callahan and Hossa should be getting the 4th line minutes on a regular basis with Orr playing against the tougher teams.

Callahan/Hossa are better all around players and allow for flexability with the top 3 lines if a player struggles or gets injured.

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11-16-2007, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Nyrfan25 View Post
They have improved but they simply do not have the skill set to improve enough to remain with the team.
Hollweg will be/should be the first to go and Orr's minutes/games needs to be cut down.

Callahan and Hossa should be getting the 4th line minutes on a regular basis with Orr playing against the tougher teams.

Callahan/Hossa are better all around players and allow for flexability with the top 3 lines if a player struggles or gets injured.
agreed on most,
Orr should get 5m/game and i'd still keep Hollweg ont he roster. He can bring a nice edge to the line up but with Avery, Hossa, even Dawes' physical play and Cally as well, Hollweg's energy and hits are becoming less important.

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11-16-2007, 08:03 AM
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What hits? Hollweg has become invisable. I love tuff hokcey but you never notice him lately.

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11-16-2007, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
What hits? Hollweg has become invisable. I love tuff hokcey but you never notice him lately.
well then sit him for a game or two and light a fire under his ass...

i wouldnt get rid of him anytime soon. After the years out maybe but no need to get rid just yet. he can still have a use.

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11-16-2007, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
not only are they not shut down players they are not legitimate hockey players either but i do agree that they have improved.

They had to and will continue to have to if they want any chance of staying in the line up or even on the roster.

There's alot of depth in the frqanchise right now, specifically for 3rd and 4th line role players. These kids will eventually be younger and cheaper so Orr and Hollweg and also Hossa (IMO) will need to continue to develop and quikcly....
Hahaha, harsh, but I agree Jurgen.

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11-16-2007, 08:16 AM
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Hahaha, harsh, but I agree Jurgen.
harsh yes, but thats the sign of a deep and successful franchise...

keeping the established players on the main roster honest and hard working with great depth behind them ready to play.

it worked for Buffalo the past 2 years, Ottawa for a while now and teams like San Jose and Detroit have been sacrificing veterans for youth for severals years with success.

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11-16-2007, 08:56 AM
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Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
What hits? Hollweg has become invisable. I love tuff hokcey but you never notice him lately.
You may not like it, but I'm pretty sure Renney does....I'm betting Hollweg is doing exactly what Renney wants---skating, forechecking, playing very smart defense, playing phjysical when he has the chance, occupying the other team....Ditto with Orr to a lesser extent..

And as a trio, the HBO line has been totally doingtheir job for the last 10 games, just not with the huge hits and big fights..

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11-16-2007, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Nyrfan25 View Post
Callahan and Hossa should be getting the 4th line minutes on a regular basis with Orr playing against the tougher teams.

Callahan/Hossa are better all around players and allow for flexability with the top 3 lines if a player struggles or gets injured.
WHy, these guys can't produce offensively either..If they can provide the same physical element and defense that Hollweg and Orr have been providing, then i'm all for it....Persoanlly, with a healthy roster, I don't think ANY of Hossa, Cally,Orr or Holly shoud have a set spot on the 4th line and should be rotated in and out depending on opponent, slumps, etc..

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11-16-2007, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
How good is the Ranger coaching staff, they turned Hollweg & Orr into legitimate hockey players that can shut down opposing teams top lines. Its freakin mind bloggling.
Colton Orr should not be skating in the NHL - Betts and Hollweg are great on the 4th - I would rather see Dane Byers - much better hockey player and can fight.

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11-16-2007, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jake1970 View Post
Colton Orr should not be skating in the NHL - Betts and Hollweg are great on the 4th - I would rather see Dane Byers - much better hockey player and can fight.
i'd like to see Byers too - eventually. You need to find the right balance of vets and youht and we have that right now, one more rookie may be too much all in go, especially for a so called contender.

We have Staal, Dubi, Callahan and Dawes who are all rookies, Guys like Girardi are very young in terms of games played and even guys like Tuytin and Prucha are just into their 3rd seasons. Byers will get a chance, just right now isnt the right time...

besides, he's not scored much in the A this year (2+1) so let him get on a run there first. Dawes, Callahan even Dubisnky earnt their spots. Let Byers do the same.

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11-16-2007, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
You may not like it, but I'm pretty sure Renney does....I'm betting Hollweg is doing exactly what Renney wants---skating, forechecking, playing very smart defense, playing phjysical when he has the chance, occupying the other team....Ditto with Orr to a lesser extent..

And as a trio, the HBO line has been totally doingtheir job for the last 10 games, just not with the huge hits and big fights..
agreed, Even thou they may not fight every night or lay people out every night, its their presence, without Hollweg and Orr this team becomes very soft.

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11-16-2007, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake1970 View Post
Colton Orr should not be skating in the NHL - Betts and Hollweg are great on the 4th - I would rather see Dane Byers - much better hockey player and can fight.
You have no clue man. Orr not with the Rangers in the NHL? oh man save your money to buy a clue. Beyers can fight just about as well as Dubi. Just because you drop your gloves doesn't make you a fighter. Beyers is a grinder with no fear not a NHL heavie. Whjat has hollweg done to play over Colton?

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11-16-2007, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
You have no clue man. Orr not with the Rangers in the NHL? oh man save your money to buy a clue. Beyers can fight just about as well as Dubi. Just because you drop your gloves doesn't make you a fighter. Beyers is a grinder with no fear not a NHL heavie. Whjat has hollweg done to play over Colton?
This gets silly. Both Hollweg and Orr have played well as a 4th line that has been used by Renney ALOT (as 4th lines go) and often in important defensive situation...Also, Hollweg, played a few games on the 3rd line where, while he didn't score, he played and skated well with Dubi and Prucha....

If you feel you need an enforcer (I don't, but Renney does sometimes) then Orr will be your man..If you want a speedier, more energetic player who can hit (if allowed to) then Holly is your man..Well, at least untill Straka and Cally come back, then who knows what the rotation will be....All four (Hossa, Holly,Orr, Cally) should take turns.

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11-16-2007, 11:22 AM
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well then sit him for a game or two and light a fire under his ass...

i wouldnt get rid of him anytime soon. After the years out maybe but no need to get rid just yet. he can still have a use.

Problem is he is a marked man, so as soon as the guy delivers a big hit, he's gonna sit in the box....Thanks Gary Bettman for that one. He completely took his game away from him.

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11-16-2007, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
How good is the Ranger coaching staff, they turned Hollweg & Orr into legitimate hockey players that can shut down opposing teams top lines. Its freakin mind bloggling.
I always been a fan of Hollweg and orr, and always been. Last night Orrs skating looked fantastic and so much improved. As for Hollweg i always considered him to be a good skater.

I been a fan of this line and I love there p[lay and renneys confidence in them. This is how you build a team, lets guys play and keep them together. renney has been sticking to his lines and nees to stay with them. Every line on a team should have a role and renney has given the 4th line a very important role, and there doing great at it. A winning team makes sure every player has value and use, and Renney is taking everyones quality's and using them effectivley.

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11-16-2007, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Problem is he is a marked man, so as soon as the guy delivers a big hit, he's gonna sit in the box....Thanks Gary Bettman for that one. He completely took his game away from him.
I agree that Buttman has probably taken away what we fans love to see..his non stop hitting...BUT...gotta remember that Renney lost alot of faith in Holly towards the end of last year becaue of the danger of the big hit (penalties) and possibly being out of position...enough so that he even played Colton Orr in a PO game...However, although I haven't heard anything, I get the feeling that Renney likes the way the Hollweg has been plying this year---more hockey, more discipline, mopre speed, and the threat of the hit is always there..Too bad he can't score for beans...

That being said, I would love to see him lay out hits like he used to...

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11-16-2007, 11:46 AM
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Thyeve done a good job, but unfortunately that line will most likely be broken up once straka and cally come back, unless dawes and prucha are sent down.

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11-16-2007, 12:14 PM
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I'm pretty sure those guys aren't out there to reinvent the wheel, they are playing EXACTLY the way the coaching staff wants them to play, hence the thread commending how GOOD the coaching staff is.
As long as the 4th line plays the way they have been that line isn't going to be broken up.
its either dawes Hossa or Prucha, 2 of those guys are gonna sit, & as I said in an earlier thread since Prucha is the logical canidate to e traded, benching him lessens his trade vaule.

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11-16-2007, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Thyeve done a good job, but unfortunately that line will most likely be broken up once straka and cally come back, unless dawes and prucha are sent down.
i don't think Prucha can be sent down, he'd be snatched up in minutes on waivers

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11-16-2007, 01:23 PM
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I still think its bit of an overexaggeration to term Hollweg as a "legitimate hockey player", especially by NHL standards.

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11-18-2007, 03:00 AM
  #25
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Hollweg, Betts -4, Orr -6

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