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[GDT 19:] 11/17/07 | New Jersey Devils at Philadelphia Flyers | 7 PM EST | CSN, WIP

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Old
11-17-2007, 04:44 PM
  #26
TehBBA
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Langenbrunner back in for the Debbies, Kapanen game time decision maybe?

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11-17-2007, 04:45 PM
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MountainHawk
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Gomez is overpaid, and not going to be worth his cap hit for years to come. You don't win with big names in a cap world. You win by having young performers give $4M worth of production for $750K of cap hit. Zubrus was a bad deal for him, but his track record is still pretty good.

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11-17-2007, 05:18 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Gomez is overpaid, and not going to be worth his cap hit for years to come. You don't win with big names in a cap world. You win by having young performers give $4M worth of production for $750K of cap hit. Zubrus was a bad deal for him, but his track record is still pretty good.
Mogilny and Malakhov were also ridiculously stupid contracts, and the league gave Lou a gift in a pass out of the Mogilny deal given that his hip was an existing issue prior to him signing.

Nidermayer, Pronger, JSG, Selanne... tend to disagree.

Staal, Brind'Amour, Recchi, etc... also disagree.

the key to winning is having young players who are stepping up beneath the "name" players, obviously. however, you're overlooking the fact that "big name" players play continue to and always will play key roles for winning teams.

Gomez was an UFA center who has produced throughout his career... if you want to go down that path, you're going to find that almost every UFA in the league is technically "overpaid." It's fine to overpay for someone as long as they produce to a strong degree... overpaying for a guy that is a 40-50 point player is a terribly poor decision.

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11-17-2007, 05:24 PM
  #29
MountainHawk
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Gomez has had 1 season with over a point per game. They overpaid for him.

70, 63, 48, 55, 70, 84, 60 ... those are Gomez's NHL point numbers.
19, 14, 10, 13, 14, 33, 13 ... those are Gomez's NHL goal numbers

Also, he did it in a system that few other teams can replicate in the NHL. Signing a player from the Devils is like bringing in a QB from the Univ. of Florida under Spurrier and expecting him to be the same guy in the NFL. Doesn't usually work.

Gomez is a nice 3rd line player. He's not elite.

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11-17-2007, 05:30 PM
  #30
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I'm at the game and just sent a text message to the jumbotron.

It reads "mike richards is cannon"

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Old
11-17-2007, 05:32 PM
  #31
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Gomez has had 1 season with over a point per game. They overpaid for him.

70, 63, 48, 55, 70, 84, 60 ... those are Gomez's NHL point numbers.
19, 14, 10, 13, 14, 33, 13 ... those are Gomez's NHL goal numbers

Also, he did it in a system that few other teams can replicate in the NHL. Signing a player from the Devils is like bringing in a QB from the Univ. of Florida under Spurrier and expecting him to be the same guy in the NFL. Doesn't usually work.

Gomez is a nice 3rd line player. He's not elite.
the bolded borderline invalidates anything you have to say about hockey.

Gomez produced points in an offensively repressive system. He's a 27 y/o playmaking center who has had strong offensive years in his last 3 NHL seasons, spanning four years. So he's right in the midst of what should be his prime offensive years... you should expect 70+ points from him throughout the life of that contract on average... after a slow start to the year offensively (along with that whole team), Gomez has shown what he's capable of the last 10 games... and it's something you should expect to see him continue to do.

UFAs get stupid contracts far more often than they get rational ones, that's very true. However, Gomez is a more than capable scoring line playmaker... he's also young, which is ideal for an UFA signing. if you want to point to the overpaid player of last years class of centers, it's Drury... much more so than Gomez.

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11-17-2007, 05:33 PM
  #32
MountainHawk
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If Gomez ever produces 85 points in a season again, I'll be totally stunned.

He's a complementary piece. 3rd line might be a bit harsh ... maybe he can be a 2nd line guy if you have a great first line.

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11-17-2007, 05:35 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
If Gomez ever produces 85 points in a season again, I'll be totally stunned.

He's a complementary piece. 3rd line might be a bit harsh ... maybe he can be a 2nd line guy if you have a great first line.
Guys who can consistently put up 70 pts in this league, which i think is more than reasonable for Gomez, are much rarer in this league than you seem to think.

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Old
11-17-2007, 05:41 PM
  #34
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Guys who can consistently put up 70 pts in this league, which i think is more than reasonable for Gomez, are much rarer in this league than you seem to think.
59th in scoring in the league last year was 64 pts.
the year before, 58th in scoring was 66 pts.

now, by the simple process of realizing that there are 30 teams in the league, that means getting 70 pts is much more than a complimentary if you evenly distribute talent (which is the theoretical result of the salary cap as it is allowed to play out, but will never be perfect). a player getting in the range of 60-80 pts for a team is producing at a very productive rate... if you can get 70-80, as Gomez can, then you're looking at someone who is a top or 2nd point getter for a team on almost every club in the league.

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11-17-2007, 05:48 PM
  #35
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Here is hoping for a good game, and that we can deny Brodeur's 500th win...it seems that every year he breaks some record against us, it is time to shut him down.

As much as I like Kapenen and would like to see him play tonight, I kind of want to see what Tolpeko can do with more ice team with the big leagues, and take the precaution on Kapenen.

I don't expect any offensive production from Hartnell in terms of points but I would like to see him continue his forechecking and playing physical against the other team.

I think Ben Eager needs to show something tonight...I appreciate his agitator role that he has taken and getting on everyone on the other teams nerves, however I would like him to get more physical or more offensive tonight.

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Old
11-17-2007, 05:53 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
the bolded borderline invalidates anything you have to say about hockey.

Gomez produced points in an offensively repressive system. He's a 27 y/o playmaking center who has had strong offensive years in his last 3 NHL seasons, spanning four years. So he's right in the midst of what should be his prime offensive years... you should expect 70+ points from him throughout the life of that contract on average... after a slow start to the year offensively (along with that whole team), Gomez has shown what he's capable of the last 10 games... and it's something you should expect to see him continue to do.

UFAs get stupid contracts far more often than they get rational ones, that's very true. However, Gomez is a more than capable scoring line playmaker... he's also young, which is ideal for an UFA signing. if you want to point to the overpaid player of last years class of centers, it's Drury... much more so than Gomez.
Oh, and another thing ... love the 'you have a different opinion, so you know nothing about hockey approach', especially in the same post when you say the team that led the NHL in scoring for a season played a system that kept players points down.

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Old
11-17-2007, 05:56 PM
  #37
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BTW Steve Downie has 7 assist in 7 Games for the Phantoms so far and is a plus 5 with 17 penalty minutes.

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Old
11-17-2007, 06:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Oh, and another thing ... love the 'you have a different opinion, so you know nothing about hockey approach', especially in the same post when you say the team that led the NHL in scoring for a season played a system that kept players points down.
if you think Gomez is a 3rd liner... i don't have much faith in your opinion. that's not a question of opinion, it's a fact that Gomez is one of the better players in the league.

no offense.

last year NJ was 27th in scoring.
year before? 22nd (largely due to the EGG line, guess who was on that line?)
year before that... 14th.
year before that... 14th.
year before that... 20th.
2000-2001... 1st!!!

how many coaches have they gone through since then? Gomez also specifically left NJ to play in a more open offense... which is ironic, given that the Rangers have adopted a very tight defensive system in the early portion of the season.

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Old
11-17-2007, 06:03 PM
  #39
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I think Gomez is a complementary piece. He's not a star. Like I said ... if you have a 90+ pt first line center, you can get away with Gomez as a 2nd line guy, otherwise, he's going to be a guy to chip in, not a guy you pay $10M and use $7.5M of cap space on. $5M and $4M, and you might be reasonable.

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11-17-2007, 06:03 PM
  #40
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I'm at the game and just sent a text message to the jumbotron.

It reads "mike richards is cannon"
Hahahaha... nice job!

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11-17-2007, 06:05 PM
  #41
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Sami is in, playing with a brace on his right knee.

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Old
11-17-2007, 06:06 PM
  #42
MountainHawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
59th in scoring in the league last year was 64 pts.
the year before, 58th in scoring was 66 pts.

now, by the simple process of realizing that there are 30 teams in the league, that means getting 70 pts is much more than a complimentary if you evenly distribute talent (which is the theoretical result of the salary cap as it is allowed to play out, but will never be perfect). a player getting in the range of 60-80 pts for a team is producing at a very productive rate... if you can get 70-80, as Gomez can, then you're looking at someone who is a top or 2nd point getter for a team on almost every club in the league.
Teams who have 75 or so points as their leading point scorer don't win Cups.

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Old
11-17-2007, 06:07 PM
  #43
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Tolpeko in, Eager out....Can't really argue with that decision, Cote is getting the job done right now, Eager is just acting as an agitator, he needs to pick up the tough stuff or his offense like I earlier said, or he might be traded before the end of the month in my opinion.

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Old
11-17-2007, 06:08 PM
  #44
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I think Gomez is a complementary piece. He's not a star. Like I said ... if you have a 90+ pt first line center, you can get away with Gomez as a 2nd line guy, otherwise, he's going to be a guy to chip in, not a guy you pay $10M and use $7.5M of cap space on. $5M and $4M, and you might be reasonable.
no player in this league capable of doing all the things Gomez is capable of doing is going to sign as a 27 y/o UFA for 4-5M.

7 centers had more than 90 points last year...
6 centers had more than 90 points the year before...

again, players that produce the level of points you're making assumptions about aren't nearly as numerous as you're supposing. a guy putting up 70 pts is more than capable of being a very strong 1st and 2nd line center. you're probably going to need someone on the wing, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that 70 pts is a VERY good offensive year in this league.

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11-17-2007, 06:09 PM
  #45
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Why the **** am I seeing Oklahoma State vs. Baylor on my Center Ice feed?

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Old
11-17-2007, 06:09 PM
  #46
Jester
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Teams who have 75 or so points as their leading point scorer don't win Cups.
prolly not, but they don't need that production from their center... Anaheim's leading point getter at Center was MacDonald with 78 (he was also their 2nd scorer).

NYR should be led by Jagr.

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Old
11-17-2007, 06:10 PM
  #47
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Tolpeko man crush time!!!

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Old
11-17-2007, 06:12 PM
  #48
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Flyers PP -- get one early fellas!

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11-17-2007, 06:13 PM
  #49
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Peco Powerplay, ya boy!

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Old
11-17-2007, 06:13 PM
  #50
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How many centers had more points than Gomez in each of the past 3 years? For a $7.5M cap hit, the answer better be less than 5 for all three of them if to be worth it.

If there weren't GMs like Sather to pay $10M for 70 pts, then he wouldn't get that money. If you sign 6 forwards that get 70 points, that's like 200 goals ... great production for the first two lines, but you also are $10M over the cap and are 17 players short.

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